there is not a neurology department or rotation at my school

[stochastic]

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I am a DO/PhD student about to start as an MS3 this July. My school does not have a required neurology rotation or even an elective one affiliated with our teaching hospital. We only have 2 elective months in our third year. Most (all?) neurology programs will only take fourth year students for visiting rotations. So I think some of my options for getting neurology experience and LORs from neurologists are:

1) I could use one or both of my MS3 electives with local private practice neurologists and ask them to write LORs

2) I could do neurology away rotations during fourth year, which for me would not be until September, because my school scheduled me with required rotations for July and August of fourth year

I would like to get into one of those subjectively "top-ranked" ACGME residency programs. Some of them seem to be open to DOs. If anyone knows which ones, please share! The rest of my resume is fine (USMLE step 1, neuroscience publications, SIGN president, etc.). How should I go about getting neurology experience and LORs that will benefit my application in time for interview scheduling. It seems some of these "top-ranked" programs start interviewing early and it is advantageous to have your application completed early.

Thanks

 

[Amos]

I can't speak to the DO issue, but I would try to get some neuro experience by July or August at the beginning of your M4 year at the latest. You could then maybe follow that up with a formal M4 elective in the fall.

I didn't even do a neuro elective (just the required 4 week rotation), but I would imagine that you need some neuro experience prior to submitting your ERAS in September. Otherwise it's going to make writing your personal statement and submitting your letters of recommendation very tricky. One very strong letter of rec from a private practice neurologist is fine if they can elaborate on your clinical skills.

And you're right about applying early. I got a mid September invitation from one of my top choices for an early November date. Since you are planning so far ahead you should easily be able to upload your ERAS application and have most of your letters in by early September.

Hope that helps.

 

[stochastic]

Thanks for the informative reply Amos.

Does anyone else have an opinion on getting LORs from private practice neurologists?

 

[DarthNeurology]

I am a DO/PhD student about to start as an MS3 this July. My school does not have a required neurology rotation or even an elective one affiliated with our teaching hospital. We only have 2 elective months in our third year. Most (all?) neurology programs will only take fourth year students for visiting rotations. So I think some of my options for getting neurology experience and LORs from neurologists are:

1) I could use one or both of my MS3 electives with local private practice neurologists and ask them to write LORs

2) I could do neurology away rotations during fourth year, which for me would not be until September, because my school scheduled me with required rotations for July and August of fourth year

I would like to get into one of those subjectively "top-ranked" ACGME residency programs. Some of them seem to be open to DOs. If anyone knows which ones, please share! The rest of my resume is fine (USMLE step 1, neuroscience publications, SIGN president, etc.). How should I go about getting neurology experience and LORs that will benefit my application in time for interview scheduling. It seems some of these "top-ranked" programs start interviewing early and it is advantageous to have your application completed early.

Thanks

I would be very unconventional when approaching getting neurology experience.

1. While your hospital may not have a neurology elective, there might be neurology attendings whom you could shadow/observe on a part time basis, like half a day a week starting ASAP and continue it in third year.

2. I would play with vacation time to try to set up an informal neurology elective type observer experience. Say you get off four weeks between July 2009 and July 2010, maybe even in a block, then I would try to get an unofficial observership at a tertiary hospital on a neurology team, not a real elective, but at least something for fodder for the personal statement and maybe a letter.

3. Doing a neurology elective in September is OK, not optimal, but definitely OK, do it at a place you would like to go for residency and plan on doing well.

4. Not all neurology programs take only fourth year students, if you have already done medicine, maybe also family medicine etc . . . then write a personal letter of appeal to a place where the rules aren't clearly written out to do the elective, if alright with your school. There are a ton of places in New York where you can do a neurology elective, maybe not a great one, but a neurology elective with just certain third year clerkships done.

 

[Terpskins99]

I really don't think its necessary to do a neuro rotation as a 3rd year. You have more than enough time during MS4 year. Also, as a PhD candidate, won't you have plenty of time to shadow neurologists during your research years?

Anyhow for 3rd year electives, why not go with para-neuro fields... like ophtho, neurosurg, ENT? Even anesthesia and get some chances to do a couple LP's. ICU would be very useful for those pursuing neuro.

 

[Amos]

I really don't think its necessary to do a neuro rotation as a 3rd year. You have more than enough time during MS4 year. Also, as a PhD candidate, won't you have plenty of time to shadow neurologists during your research years?

Anyhow for 3rd year electives, why not go with para-neuro fields... like ophtho, neurosurg, ENT? Even anesthesia and get some chances to do a couple LP's. ICU would be very useful for those pursuing neuro.

Agreed on it not being required during 3rd year, but you REALLY want it before September early in MS4. June, July or even August would be OK.

Your performance in your core neuro clerkship is one of the first thing many program directors will look at in your ERAS application. Thus you need to have it done if at all possible. If you can't get it done at your school look around and do it elsewhere. In fact if neuro is really underdeveloped at your school you might want to go elsewhere anyway.

No worries. Things will work out just fine, especially since you are putting so much thought into things.

 

[stochastic]

Thanks for the reply Terpskins99. I am actually finishing my last research year right now. I will be re-entering medical school this July. I guess I should have been shadowing neurologists over the past three years.

I only get two electives during 3rd year, and they are my only chances to do a neurology rotation prior to September of my fourth year.

I went to the Clinical Education Office at my school yesterday and perused site evaluations for local private practice neurologists. I learned that not many students at my school have done a neurology rotation. However, there was one neurologist that had the most evaluations (14), and they were all very positive. Apparently he really likes to teach, even though he is in private practice. I think he is my best option for a third year rotation. Is his training background important? He did his residency at Penn and fellowship at UMiami. For now, I am planning on at least one of my two elective months with him in late third year and an away rotation in September of my fourth year at a top-tier (hopefully) ACGME program.

How does the application submission process work? Can I have my whole application submitted in August (with the private practice LOR + maybe one from our core medicine) and then wait to have a third one from the ACGME program come in by mid-October? Would programs be able to see the application in the month of September? How would they know when the last (and most important) LOR comes in?

 

[Amos]

Thanks for the reply Terpskins99. I am actually finishing my last research year right now. I will be re-entering medical school this July. I guess I should have been shadowing neurologists over the past three years.

I only get two electives during 3rd year, and they are my only chances to do a neurology rotation prior to September of my fourth year.

I went to the Clinical Education Office at my school yesterday and perused site evaluations for local private practice neurologists. I learned that not many students at my school have done a neurology rotation. However, there was one neurologist that had the most evaluations (14), and they were all very positive. Apparently he really likes to teach, even though he is in private practice. I think he is my best option for a third year rotation. Is his training background important? He did his residency at Penn and fellowship at UMiami. For now, I am planning on at least one of my two elective months with him in late third year and an away rotation in September of my fourth year at a top-tier (hopefully) ACGME program.

How does the application submission process work? Can I have my whole application submitted in August (with the private practice LOR + maybe one from our core medicine) and then wait to have a third one from the ACGME program come in by mid-October? Would programs be able to see the application in the month of September? How would they know when the last (and most important) LOR comes in?

Yes you can submit your application and some of your letters and then wait for other letters. Some programs will offer you interviews without all your letters.

Just a question, what led you to be so sure about neurology without doing a clinical rotation and without shadowing any neurologists? It's good to plan ahead, but it's certainly no crime if you change your mind and choose to pursue another speciality. Few students are 100% sure about their speciality at the start of their 3rd year.

 

[medsRus]

Yes you can submit your application and some of your letters and then wait for other letters. Some programs will offer you interviews without all your letters.

Just a question, what led you to be so sure about neurology without doing a clinical rotation and without shadowing any neurologists? It's good to plan ahead, but it's certainly no crime if you change your mind and choose to pursue another speciality. Few students are 100% sure about their speciality at the start of their 3rd year.

You can have four letters right. Can one do this:

Send in three first, then wait for the last LOR from the neuro doc? Will that delay the app, or do most/all programs have a min. of three LORs?

Or, should one submit four LORs without neuro, then when the neuro comes in, send that to each neuro program applied too???

THanks!

 

[stochastic]

I am sure that I want to have neuroscience research and teaching as part of my career. Neurology is not the only clinical field in which I can do this, but it seems the most logical. Another field that I am constantly considering is neuropathology.

I won't be actually scheduling these electives until I am at least half way through my third year. By that time I will have done medicine, a medicine specialty, surgery, OB/Gyn, psychiatry, family medicine, and pediatrics. I am hoping that I will be more settled by then, but I figure I won't really know until after a third year neurology rotation and maybe not even by then.