Things are rocky with my PI - letter of rec?

[ttt92]

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Hi everyone,

So I've been with my PI for about 3 years. This year, I worked on a senior honors thesis with her. Our relationship has been very good. She knows me well. My committee requires the letter of rec to be submitted by June. I was planning on asking her last week, after my senior thesis presentation. However, our relationship has sort of changed (or maybe I'm overthinking it) within the past week. The reason is that in the few days before my thesis was due, she changed up my entire data analysis. I worked hours on hours to revise it. I also had an exam the day of my presentation. Because the new data analysis (involving stats) was so difficult to understand, the presentation didn't go so well. After that, my PI told me that I didn't understand the objective, etc, etc, and everything completely felt like my fault. I have revised my thesis since. I'm not sure how I should approach asking her for a letter. I want to do it within this week to give her some time, but I don't want to spring it up when I feel like this has happened between us.

What should I do?

 

[Pacna]

I can't solve this for you.

I may be able to help someone else by pointing out that these scenarios are exactly why you should have backup letters.

 

[MDforMee]

Ask the PI if they feel that they can write you a strong LOR. If they can't, find someone else to write it.

 

[reluctantoptimism]

Ask the PI if they feel that they can write you a strong LOR. If they can't, find someone else to write it.

Quoted for truth!

 

[alpinism]

Ask the PI if they feel that they can write you a strong LOR. If they can't, find someone else to write it.

Yep it's this simple.

If she says no or hints that she might not be comfortable with writing a great letter, move on.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Hi everyone,

So I've been with my PI for about 3 years. This year, I worked on a senior honors thesis with her. Our relationship has been very good. She knows me well. My committee requires the letter of rec to be submitted by June. I was planning on asking her last week, after my senior thesis presentation. However, our relationship has sort of changed (or maybe I'm overthinking it) within the past week. The reason is that in the few days before my thesis was due, she changed up my entire data analysis. I worked hours on hours to revise it. I also had an exam the day of my presentation. Because the new data analysis (involving stats) was so difficult to understand, the presentation didn't go so well. After that, my PI told me that I didn't understand the objective, etc, etc, and everything completely felt like my fault. I have revised my thesis since. I'm not sure how I should approach asking her for a letter. I want to do it within this week to give her some time, but I don't want to spring it up when I feel like this has happened between us.

What should I do?

What it sounds like to me is the biggest issue here is you taking feedback poorly.

I've had mentors redo (or ask me to redo) an entire analysis. I've also had them tell me that I did poorly on a presentation or that I needed to change something.

Feedback isn't always positive. And a mentor who you've worked with for years telling you to do better shouldn't be a cause to abandon the relationship.

 

[MDforMee]

What it sounds like to me is the biggest issue here is you taking feedback poorly.

I've had mentors redo (or ask me to redo) an entire analysis. I've also had them tell me that I did poorly on a presentation or that I needed to change something.

Feedback isn't always positive. And a mentor who you've worked with for years telling you to do better shouldn't be a cause to abandon the relationship.

You may have a point or two.

Some things that seem sketchy to me are that the PI changed anything related to data analysis so close to the presentation date, and seems inconsiderate of the OP's exam schedule. She may be trying to teach a difficult lesson to the OP, or she may have just been lazy in overseeing the student's work for the last few years and is covering her tracks by laying an attitude (that's what some PI's will do when they don't want to admit to a mistake).

Still, though, I think that it's better to be safe instead of sorry. With some finesse, I'm sure that the OP can find out how "good" the letter will be.

 

[Patros]

Hi everyone,

So I've been with my PI for about 3 years. This year, I worked on a senior honors thesis with her. Our relationship has been very good. She knows me well. My committee requires the letter of rec to be submitted by June. I was planning on asking her last week, after my senior thesis presentation. However, our relationship has sort of changed (or maybe I'm overthinking it) within the past week. The reason is that in the few days before my thesis was due, she changed up my entire data analysis. I worked hours on hours to revise it. I also had an exam the day of my presentation. Because the new data analysis (involving stats) was so difficult to understand, the presentation didn't go so well. After that, my PI told me that I didn't understand the objective, etc, etc, and everything completely felt like my fault. I have revised my thesis since. I'm not sure how I should approach asking her for a letter. I want to do it within this week to give her some time, but I don't want to spring it up when I feel like this has happened between us.

What should I do?

Ok, first: Don't panic!

You are very likely overthinking the situation. Your PI may be disappointed in your presentation, but I guarantee you that she has bigger things to worry about. Ask for a recommendation, and make it clear a strong recommendation will be crucial. I highly, highly doubt that someone you had a "very good" relationship for 3 years will sudden renege on you in the last minute. I also doubt that this is the only recommendation letter she'll write; PIs commonly write many letters for undergrads asking for recommendations. If you do feel a bit of tension in the air, then just wait for or a better day, or until after you've fixed your thesis completely.

It seems strange that you worked in a lab for 3 years and wasn't clear on the objective of your work, and it's a bit odd that changing the data analysis would change the entire objective. Anyway, that doesn't matter. Have your thesis fixed with her help, and make sure you stay on good terms with her till graduation.

If for some reason you expect to get a poor letter, consider asking a postdoc in the lab to write the letter for the PI, and have it signed by the PI. However I doubt this'll be necessary. Your situation looks to be quickly remedied, and a good PI is not going to refuse a recommendation for someone she knew for many years!

Ask the PI if they feel that they can write you a strong LOR. If they can't, find someone else to write it.

You cannot replace a PI's recommendation. She's the final word on OP's contributions and abilities in research, so not having it is a serious problem. While I agree it is better not have a letter than to have a bad letter, it is still very suspicious to not submit a reference from a person you worked with for 3 years. After all, the recommendation is really the only thing an undergrad volunteer gets in return for the work; not having it means you largely wasted 3 years, as far as admissions is concerned.

 

[ttt92]

Thanks everyone for the valuable advice. I do admit that I don't take criticism too well (and almost too personally at times), so this may be a reason. I'm just hoping my PI isn't disappointed, because I worked really hard on my thesis/thesis defense. She told me to fix things, but ended up still giving me an A in the course and honors, so I'm sure she'll probably still agree to write me a letter. I just didn't want to ask after such a rocky situation. However, the recs are due in a month and I do need to hurry and ask her. I probably should have asked her before the thesis defense, but I thought it would go super well and she'd be in a better position to write me one then.

Thank you for all of your advice! I'll try my best to still get one from her, because it is definitely a red flag since I've been working there for 3 years.

 

[ridethecliche]

I do research at an academic hospital. I was preparing a talk for one of the PI's and doing all the analysis for him. I worked my ass off and stayed at the office past midnight 3 nights in a row taking a cab home at 3 AM the third night.
The morning I was supposed to show him the data, nothing worked. Nothing. NOTHING.

He. Was. Pissed.

We figured something else out and he was able to present at his conference. A few weeks later, we started looking over the data again. Fast forward a few more weeks till right now... I'm finishing up the analysis and he's happy enough with the results that he wants to submit it to an even better journal.

Point is, you have to roll with the punches. Talk to your PI, ask them to tell you exactly what it is that they didn't like. Differentiate between critical response and constructive criticism AND their disliking your work.

The advice to ask your PI if they can write you a strong rec is a good one, but I start remedying the analysis situation first. You don't want them to mention it at all if it hasn't been fixed.