Things I Hate About Third Year

[Serous Demilune]

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I wouldn't call it "ridiculing" because usually these things are in jest and I just take it in stride and go along with it. The typical arguments against peds, like who wants to deal with crazy parents, no one likes well child checks, screaming/crying kids etc. Stuff I've heard before and doesn't phase me (I actually really like well child checks....). I'm good with my hands and I apparently learn very quickly when it comes to procedural stuff so that's why they kept trying to talk me into surgery. Although I will say that if I did surgery, I'd probably want to do plastics. Those reconstruction surgeries after removing half of a person's face are works of art. If only they didn't take 12+ hours.

Hey @Ismet how long do these probationary status things last?

 

[gujuDoc]

Yeah, leaving the hospital for 3 hours without letting anyone know and then letting them find out? Id ding the **** out of you for that too. Come on dude

I mean I kinda agree with this. You could have asked your team if it would be ok. Depending on what hospital you are at and how the residents are sometimes residents will be extremely understanding or your counselor can also get you excused if it is that desperately time sensitive to get it done and you can make up the time later. That's how I'd approach such situations if I were to advise someone on this sort of issue.

 

[notbobtrustme]

During my Ob/Gyn rotation the entire wing was closed and I was just sitting around and my attending was at a different hospital. I left for 3 hours to sign a car lease since my parents were cosigners and they had flown all the way from California. Got dinged by the attending because they found out. Clerkship director called me saying it was completely unprofessional, that I better study for the shelf (6 days before the shelf). Scored 90th percentile on the shelf, the clerkship director still put me all the way down to satisfactory for that once instance.

You need like this much |--| common sense to do well in 3rd year.

Treat 3rd year like you're in 5th grade. Please, yes, thank you and ask permission for anything. Wear the biggest **** eating grin you can and suck it up. It's only 4-8 weeks long.

 

[TraumaBlonde]

You need like this much |--| common sense to do well in 3rd year.

Treat 3rd year like you're in 5th grade. Please, yes, thank you and ask permission for anything. Wear the biggest **** eating grin you can and suck it up. It's only 4-8 weeks long.

That is worth it being posted again! I couldn'tve said it better!✊

 

[KnuxNole]

While that is higher than what the average person has in terms of common sense ability, everyone can do it with some effort!

But really, keep your head down do your thing, and you'll be good. Don't be an idiot and speak out of turn and other crazy stuff.

 

[Psai]

Just got in trouble because a patient completely lied about how I behaved around them to an attending I don't even know. Guess it was my fault for asking about why they were in the hospital and about their pain

 

[NickNaylor]

Just got in trouble because a patient completely lied about how I behaved around them to an attending I don't even know. Guess it was my fault for asking about why they were in the hospital and about their pain

YOU ARE SO INSENSITIVE, I'M CALLING PATIENT RELATIONS. AND YOU CAN BET ON ME GIVING YOU 1/5 ON PRESS GANEY.

 

[Kaustikos]

Just got in trouble because a patient completely lied about how I behaved around them to an attending I don't even know. Guess it was my fault for asking about why they were in the hospital and about their pain

Should've ordered that UPT.

 

[MrTambourineMan]

You need like this much |--| common sense to do well in 3rd year.

Treat 3rd year like you're in 5th grade. Please, yes, thank you and ask permission for anything. Wear the biggest **** eating grin you can and suck it up. It's only 4-8 weeks long.

I had heard this before starting third year and never believed it. I assumed everyone would know and do the basics.

Boy, was I dead wrong. I've done well this year, and 75% of it is because I did the above while other people acted like clowns or children (or both.)

My advice is to adopt the mindset of "thank you sir, may have I another?" As soon as possible. No matter what happens, smile and say thank you. It will carry you far.

 

[Kaustikos]

I had heard this before starting third year and never believed it. I assumed everyone would know and do the basics.

Boy, was I dead wrong. I've done well this year, and 75% of it is because I did the above while other people acted like clowns or children (or both.)

My advice is to adopt the mindset of "thank you sir, may have I another?" As soon as possible. No matter what happens, smile and say thank you. It will carry you far.

And then fourth year be like "I'll be in at 9ish and I guess see some patients until lunch. Then I'm done"

 

[Chemdude]

Being the lowest on the "scrotum pole"...

 

[Trefoil]

I had heard this before starting third year and never believed it. I assumed everyone would know and do the basics.

Boy, was I dead wrong. I've done well this year, and 75% of it is because I did the above while other people acted like clowns or children (or both.)

My advice is to adopt the mindset of "thank you sir, may have I another?" As soon as possible. No matter what happens, smile and say thank you. It will carry you far.

I've essentially done this, but it baffles some students. One time, an attending asked me if I had enough to read, and I started with...well, I could always use more information (big smile). The attending was just screwing with me and started laughing. She was like the answer is "yes, I will read all night when I get home." The fourth year next to me asked "what the hell kind of an answer was that?" I answer: "the kind that can get me a rec letter." The reality is that you either play the game, or you don't understand the game. I will say that even when you play you can get royally screwed, but you mitigate most of it if you just act stupid and thankful for work the entire time.

 

[Kaustikos]

I've essentially done this, but it baffles some students. One time, an attending asked me if I had enough to read, and I started with...well, I could always use more information (big smile). The attending was just screwing with me and started laughing. She was like the answer is "yes, I will read all night when I get home." The fourth year next to me asked "what the hell kind of an answer was that?" I answer: "the kind that can get me a rec letter." The reality is that you either play the game, or you don't understand the game. I will say that even when you play you can get royally screwed, but you mitigate most of it if you just act stupid and thankful for work the entire time.

To be fair, it was a fourth year. Probably drank so much they forgot about third year and the game lol.
I think the funniest was my surgery sub I where we had two third years and the intern asked if any of them wanted to go see a consult. They were like "no, we're good"
Fourth years go but before we leave the intern says "just a hint, if a resident or attending ever asks if you want to see a consult, you say yes"

 

[PL198]

To be fair, it was a fourth year. Probably drank so much they forgot about third year and the game lol.
I think the funniest was my surgery sub I where we had two third years and the intern asked if any of them wanted to go see a consult. They were like "no, we're good"
Fourth years go but before we leave the intern says "just a hint, if a resident or attending ever asks if you want to see a consult, you say yes"

how is this not extremely obvious... this stuff seems so hard to believe because its so difficult to fathom this many people not having the social aptitude required in these extremely basic situations

 

[Kaustikos]

how is this not extremely obvious... this stuff seems so hard to believe because its so difficult to fathom this many people not having the social aptitude required in these extremely basic situations

It was multi-factorial. Or kind of. I think part of it was that we'd gotten along so well and worked so well as a team that it kind of developed this "friendly" attitude near the end of the rotation (which is when it happened). Plus, almost all the surgeons on our team were gone that week for a surgery conference in San Fran so there wasn't much to do. Not saying it condones their behavior, but it wasn't the attitude they had the entire time. The intern was nice enough to remind them of that with his statement. He didn't report/complain about it, but was like "Yeah, we're friendly, but don't make this a habit or let it get to you because it's not always like this".

 

[notbobtrustme]

look at this bull****

just got my EM grade back, missed the A because I got a "competent" in medical knowledge.

My shelf score? 99.

Pimp questions? Probably batted .800. Differentials? Was routinely told I had excellent, broad differentials that were appropriate. Had appropriate work-ups, including disposition on every patient. Pretty much had 5-10% of my plans changed or an additional test added, otherwise, my plans were no more different than the residents. was never given anything more than "keep up with what you're doing" when asked on how to improve. I never ducked patients, never ducked scut, never ducked lectures/conferences. CURB65'ed, PERC'ed, WELLS'ed and Ranson'ed my first week of the rotation.

not saying I was perfect or at a resident's level, but I thought I did well with the low acuity stuff given to me. hate this double-talk, bs about how I'm doing "great" or "excellent" and then this bomb gets dropped on me.

such bull****.

 

[Psai]

look at this bull****

just got my EM grade back, missed the A because I got a "competent" in medical knowledge.

My shelf score? 99.

Pimp questions? Probably batted .800. Differentials? Was routinely told I had excellent, broad differentials that were appropriate. Had appropriate work-ups, including disposition on every patient. Pretty much had 5-10% of my plans changed or an additional test added, otherwise, my plans were no more different than the residents. was never given anything more than "keep up with what you're doing" when asked on how to improve. I never ducked patients, never ducked scut, never ducked lectures/conferences. CURB65'ed, PERC'ed, WELLS'ed and Ranson'ed my first week of the rotation.

not saying I was perfect or at a resident's level, but I thought I did well with the low acuity stuff given to me. hate this double-talk, bs about how I'm doing "great" or "excellent" and then this bomb gets dropped on me.

such bull****.

That's ****ed
clinical grades are such a joke, not sure why people put so much stock in them. I'm pulling double the hours of my compatriots on general surgery but I'm getting the sense that they will do better than me because they have easier attendings and way more time to study for the shelf

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Edit

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Just got in trouble because a patient completely lied about how I behaved around them to an attending I don't even know. Guess it was my fault for asking about why they were in the hospital and about their pain

If you would have performed Omm on the patient they would have been less likely to report you as omm helps build patient relationships

 

[VenusinFurs]

Guys, I am at a program in kind of the boonies, and we get a lot of students from a local osteopathic school who use as their core site, and we actually have almost no input into their grades. The grades are more or less assigned by a hospitalist who doesn't work directly with them other than running a didactic every week. We only get input if we email him, and we only email him if we think students are actively offensively bad. Like this one dude who said he didn't want to learn from FP residents because he was smarter than them.

TL;DR clinical grades are bull**** at a lot of places.

 

[VenusinFurs]

Also, maybe don't expect honors just because you do your job? Like, that's not how the real world works, you get your **** done because people rely on you.

 

[username456789]

We only get input if we email him, and we only email him if we think students are actively offensively bad. Like this one dude who said he didn't want to learn from FP residents because he was smarter than them.

Big talk coming from a DO student.

 

[VenusinFurs]

Big talk coming from a DO student.

I mean, I go to a dual program, and the DO residents aren't any dumber than the MD residents, though some of them are real wah wah magic hippies. But this guy was actually really dumb compared to his classmates. He was all bluster.

 

[BurghStudent]

Its amazing to me how much I've learned about my classmates over just one rotation. You never really know someone, ya know?

 

[Psai]

Its amazing to me how much I've learned about my classmates over just one rotation. You never really know someone, ya know?

this is the truth, some people that i thought were gunners were awesome partners and others that i thought would be chill totally sucked
worst ones are the lazy ones who drag all the other students down and make everyone look bad by association or the ones that try to screw you over

 

[Kaustikos]

My experience has been interesting. Some of my classmates at my satellite campus essentially told everyone I was the worst person ever to my class and underclassmen. I didn't know until people would walk up to me and be like "man, you're definitely not like what I've heard. Your classmates told me to avoid you, but I'm glad I didn't because of how helpful and good classmate to be with."

It's happened several times. But I laugh because I had proven them wrong unintentionally.

 

[charmiedermie]

Its amazing to me how much I've learned about my classmates over just one rotation. You never really know someone, ya know?

Is that good or bad?

My experience has been interesting. Some of my classmates at my satellite campus essentially told everyone I was the worst person ever to my class and underclassmen. I didn't know until people would walk up to me and be like "man, you're definitely not like what I've heard. Your classmates told me to avoid you, but I'm glad I didn't because of how helpful and good classmate to be with."

It's happened several times. But I laugh because I had proven them wrong unintentionally.

Is that because they thought you were hypercompetitive, too hardworking, or too lazy or laidback? I've seen it many ways when it comes to talking smack.

 

[BurghStudent]

Is that good or bad?

Is that because they thought you were hypercompetitive, too hardworking, or too lazy or laidback? I've seen it many ways when it comes to talking smack.

Both, same experience as @Psai

It comes down to the definition of gunner. Some people in my class who one might mislabel a gunner simply because of their sheer genius have actually turned out to be the most genuine individuals.

On the other hand, some people who in years 1-2 who simply came across as hardworking and overall really nice have shown how petty and self-serving they can be.

3rd year is 95% social intelligence, 5% regular level of med student work ethic. The workload is no surprise, but knowing how to act in different situations, how to communicate with your superiors and colleagues, is sooo important. Apparently, the medical school interview and your MCAT verbal are designed to select for this, but you and I know that's gameable. Once Master Promissory Notes are signed, the med school has to deal with you and you with it for the next 4 years. And as with any human population, there is a bell curve. And one end of that curve is cray cray.

 

[Frazier]

The subjective MS3/MS4 grading is no new thing, I've read about it on SDN for years... but it personally reared it's head already...and is somewhat annoying after all:

Attending #1 grading excerpt: "You are outstanding. I find it impossible to believe this is your first rotation. Your clinical acumen and problem solving are terrific. I hope you choose [XYZ specialty] as your specialty. It would be a privilege to have you in our residency program." Grade: Honors.

Attending #2 grading excerpt: "You have developed so much during our time together. At the beginning of the rotation I set a number of goals for you to aim toward; you reached and surpassed each of these goals. Your notes are spectacular and do not let anyone change your format and organization no matter what they say. It has been a pleasure." Grade: High pass.

 

[Apoplexy__]

worst ones are the lazy ones who drag all the other students down and make everyone look bad by
associations or the ones that try to screw you over

I had this one really lazy classmate that kept doing this with me. The attending was pretty critical about "us" and kept associating me with him. I started waking up earlier (already had to be there at like 5 am) and planning my work so that I could take some of his slack.

Turns out, my eval noted that I was "eager to work, helps his teammates a lot" and I honored. I was happy that there was justice in the end.

 

[da8s0859q]

The subjective MS3/MS4 grading is no new thing, I've read about it on SDN for years... but it personally reared it's head already...and is somewhat annoying after all:

Attending #1 grading excerpt: "You are outstanding. I find it impossible to believe this is your first rotation. Your clinical acumen and problem solving are terrific. I hope you choose [XYZ specialty] as your specialty. It would be a privilege to have you in our residency program." Grade: Honors.

Attending #2 grading excerpt: "You have developed so much during our time together. At the beginning of the rotation I set a number of goals for you to aim toward; you reached and surpassed each of these goals. Your notes are spectacular and do not let anyone change your format and organization no matter what they say. It has been a pleasure." Grade: High pass.

Clearly you walk on water. Why trouble yourself with the concerns of mortals?

 

[Frazier]

Clearly you walk on water. Why trouble yourself with the concerns of mortals?

Not at all a water-walker. Really it doesn't matter if I Honor the whole block, get a HP, or a P... I'll still be doing psych regardless (and likely at the same program to boot -- i.e. not aiming for MGH/McLean or anything).

Both of those comments sound equally positive to me. The actual grade tells a different story.

I just find it interesting how you read about these things on SDN for years, then after you put in the hours and personal effort when hitting the wards -- the subjectivity to clinical grades rings true regardless -- and a new appreciation immediately develops.

I understand this is nothing new -- and thousands and thousands have experienced the same already. I'm just adding another tick to the tally.

 

[Kaustikos]

Is that good or bad?

Is that because they thought you were hypercompetitive, too hardworking, or too lazy or laidback? I've seen it many ways when it comes to talking smack.

I'm definitely not competitive. If you want honors, go ahead. They just didn't appreciate my laid back attitude and how selfish I got when I was stressed out. It also didn't help that our class president brought a "date" to our place for drinks and she immediately said "we are not together" and took some vendetta that we were trying to steal his date. Even though we both had gf's. And... He made a fool out of himself by being drunk before he came to our place.
Oh the stories of medical school. I don't care that they think that about me because I've apparently proven them wrong numerous times. It's just funny in a way. And immature on their part.

 

[charmiedermie]

I'm definitely not competitive. If you want honors, go ahead. They just didn't appreciate my laid back attitude and how selfish I got when I was stressed out. It also didn't help that our class president brought a "date" to our place for drinks and she immediately said "we are not together" and took some vendetta that we were trying to steal his date. Even though we both had gf's. And... He made a fool out of himself by being drunk before he came to our place.
Oh the stories of medical school. I don't care that they think that about me because I've apparently proven them wrong numerous times. It's just funny in a way. And immature on their part.

So they labeled you as too laidback and were mad you wouldn't party a few days before a major exam? I guess they needed something to talk behind your back to people who don't know you.You're much nicer than I would have been.

 

[charmiedermie]

Clearly you walk on water. Why trouble yourself with the concerns of mortals?

You clearly missed @Frazier's point.

 

[da8s0859q]

You clearly missed @Frazier's point.

Poking good-natured fun. I went to medical school too. I get it.

 

[Kaustikos]

So they labeled you as too laidback and were mad you wouldn't party a few days before a major exam? I guess they needed something to talk behind your back to people who don't know you.You're much nicer than I would have been.

I'm the type of person that relies on my performance in judging who I am. If patients, residents and other students like me, I don't care what bull**** they spread because people eventually stop listening to them.

But there was a moment second year where we had to attend class and I went but put my headphones on to study for a test we had that day. Professor decided to ask questions to everyone and he came to me... I just looked at him and said "I don't know" and went back to studying not realizing that everyone was looking at me like I was rude. I might have been, but I have a test coming up and don't want to be here.
Also, they removed mandatory attendance later on. So, hurray!

 

[mcloaf]

Bumping this thread for a big shoutout to attendings and residents who give verbal feedback like "you're one of the strongest students I've worked with" and then proceed to not submit actual evals, while ****ty attendings who don't give a **** about students are always sure to get in evals ASAP.

 

[Psai]

Bumping this thread for a big shoutout to attendings and residents who give verbal feedback like "you're one of the strongest students I've worked with" and then proceed to not submit actual evals, while ****ty attendings who don't give a **** about students are always sure to get in evals ASAP.

i was pissed on family when my attendings said nice things to me but my comments section didn't have much. i was pleasantly surprised on ob and surgery when people that i thought didn't like me wrote pretty nice things with details. you win some, lose some. just have to get through it

 

[BurghStudent]

What I hate about 3rd year is that your bedside manner counts for squat. And no, this is not one of those "a shelf exam cannot gauge my ability is a doctor" complaints. If you can rock the shelf, more power to you. It's just, one can honor a clerkship without anyone ever seeing how you are with patients, as long as you put on an undying smile in front of residents and attendings and volunteer for things like no other.

 

[olivarynucleus]

Its amazing to me how much I've learned about my classmates over just one rotation. You never really know someone, ya know?

Nah I already know most of the little gunners will be voracious kiss asses.

 

[KnuxNole]

Attendings and residents almost never see you interact with patients directly, so they can't see your bedside manner. They might hear about it(moreso if it's negative), but usually the only way people see how you are with patients is how you present the person's case, their PE findings, and your plan with it.

 

[nycdocmd]

We all get oculorectumosis in 3rd year.

Optic nerve wraps around the rectum and you get a sh*tty outlook on life.

Yes, it sucks.

But I'm pretty sure everyone I've talked to says when you're a resident and beyond you'll look back fondly on the free time, and the lack of real responsibility.

 

[235009]

We all get oculorectumosis in 3rd year.

Optic nerve wraps around the rectum and you get a sh*tty outlook on life.

Yes, it sucks.

But I'm pretty sure everyone I've talked to says when you're a resident and beyond you'll look back fondly on the free time, and the lack of real responsibility.

I don't look fondly on any part of med school except maybe the latter half of 4th year. Residency is way better. It really sucks having to be in the hospital for 12 hours without any real responsibility and many times being seen as a nuisance.

 

[notbobtrustme]

We all get oculorectumosis in 3rd year.

Optic nerve wraps around the rectum and you get a sh*tty outlook on life.

Yes, it sucks.

But I'm pretty sure everyone I've talked to says when you're a resident and beyond you'll look back fondly on the free time, and the lack of real responsibility.

are you kidding me? Yes, I really enjoy spending 40 bucks an hour to stand around and do nothing and then talk about how awesome everything is so that I can get a good eval/LOR.

I'd rather be valued and contribute than hang around as a 5th leg all day. Being a medical student sucks.

 

[Roxas]

are you kidding me? Yes, I really enjoy spending 40 bucks an hour to stand around and do nothing and then talk about how awesome everything is so that I can get a good eval/LOR.

I'd rather be valued and contribute than hang around as a 5th leg all day. Being a medical student sucks.

When you phrase it this way it hurts so much more

 

[nycdocmd]

are you kidding me? Yes, I really enjoy spending 40 bucks an hour to stand around and do nothing and then talk about how awesome everything is so that I can get a good eval/LOR.

I'd rather be valued and contribute than hang around as a 5th leg all day. Being a medical student sucks.

As a medical student - you also get to leave at a reasonable hour, you're not the one ultimately responsible for the safety and plan for the patient, and most of the time the social work/dispo B.S. doesn't fall in your domain. Anyway - i meant enjoy your free time outside the hospital as a medical student. I think for a lot of people happy hours, camaraderie, end of rotation parties etc start to disappear soon after the start of residency.

 

[mcloaf]

As a medical student - you also get to leave at a reasonable hour, you're not the one ultimately responsible for the safety and plan for the patient, and most of the time the social work/dispo B.S. doesn't fall in your domain. Anyway - i meant enjoy your free time outside the hospital as a medical student. I think for a lot of people happy hours, camaraderie, end of rotation parties etc start to disappear soon after the start of residency.

Happy hour disappeared week 1 of M2.

 

[TheRobin]

Happy hour disappeared week 1 of M2.

Started M2 this week. Can confirm.

 

[notbobtrustme]

As a medical student - you also get to leave at a reasonable hour, you're not the one ultimately responsible for the safety and plan for the patient, and most of the time the social work/dispo B.S. doesn't fall in your domain. Anyway - i meant enjoy your free time outside the hospital as a medical student. I think for a lot of people happy hours, camaraderie, end of rotation parties etc start to disappear soon after the start of residency.

that's like being jealous of that homeless guy who can jerk off on the side of the highway anytime he wants to.