Think hard about your physician mortgage, especially with Compass

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14022

With BOA done with the doctor loan program, I wanted to provide advice to those shopping for a mortgage, especially with Compass Bank. I got a BOA loan 3 years ago and it was great, and I am in the process of selling my current home and upgrading. I was preapproved with BOA for my next loan, but that has since changed with their scrapping of their program. I looked into other banks, but SunTrust doesn't lend in my state.

Compass on the other hand is trying hard to take advantage of the lack of competition and the naivity of many of us getting our first loan. I have excellent credit and money for a downpayment and with my wife's job have much higher income than most residents, yet despite this, Compass wanted to charge a whopping 7.5% APR on a loan. Not only that, they were enocuraging us to put no money down despite the cash for a downpayment.

Do the math guys before locking into a loan like this. If you put nothing down with a rate this high, the amount of interest you are paying is astronomical. If you are planning on selling in 3-5 years, to make this cost effective for you, even with the tax deduction it will get you, your home would have to have quite a bit of appreciation. You can forget about that in this market. The value of your home may go down. Furthermore, it is very difficult to refinance if you have less than 20% of equity in your home. Equity can come from your monthly payment, which will take close to 10 years to accumulate to 20% of the home's value, and from appreciation of its market value, which may not happen during your residency.

Furthermore, keep in mind that we often have our homes for 3-5 years during residency. If you are moving out of the area on a certain date (eg, before starting fellowship), you have a very small window of time to sell your home. This puts you in a pinch and forces you to list your home less than what you may want to. With putting no money down, it puts you at risk of not selling your home for more than what you owe on it, forcing a bank approved short sale. For example, I bought my townhome for 208K in 2006 with no money down. Currently, we owe 199K on it. Right now, townhomes in my subdivision are selling from 190-210K because of the crappy market.

What I am saying is be sure to weigh your options. It may be smarter to rent for a year or two to save some money and build your credit to get a better loan. Or if you really want to buy, it may be much better to try and get an FHA loan or some other conventional loan and pay PMI. If you get an FHA loan at 5.5% and pay PMI, your APR will still be much less than what you will pay with no PMI at Compass. And FHA loans with good credit will permit a 55% debt-to-income ratio, making your student loans essentially a non-issue. Most importantly, you can get an FHA loan from almost any bank, so you there is more competition for your business.

Furthermore, the people with the doctor's loan programs take a commission, so it is not in their best interest to give you a good deal. Talk to as many banks as possible, because there are many that don't take a commission, and will give the best rates as possible as dictated by the current market.

So think hard about your loan. There are a lot of shady loan officers out there, and residents are prime targets for being taken advanatage of. We are responsible borrowers, so many of us will not default. Furthermore, we have little cash for a down payment, very little credit (not bad credit, but just no credit since many of us havent had credit card debt or car loans to build our credit) and high student debt, so the doctor's loan programs can exploit this and make us think no one else will give us a loan. There are honest people out there that will work with you, so talk to people and make sure you get a Good Faith Estimate from them for good measure.

With this market, it may not be a good idea to buy right now if you can't get a good loan. Even though prices are down, if your loan is outrageous, it negates the value you are getting on the home. Furthermore, always keep in mind your plan for selling. If you are going to have to sell in a short time frame, it may make it difficult for you to get the yield on your investment they need.

To be clear, I am not saying that all physician loan programs are bad. But Compass will tell you they are expanding their physician loan program with BOA stopping there's. Without that competition, you may not get a great deal. Ask lots of questions, talk to many lenders, and don't be afraid to ask for lower rates. When I got my first doctor loan, I was told it was by far the best rate I could get and there was no way he could come down on my rate. When I talked to other banks who offered a lower rate, BOA promptly came down a half-point on their rate to match it. Good luck!

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I agree with this 100%.
Loans marketed to you by mortgage brokers or as special "doctor loans" may not in fact be a good deal. If you are planning to live somewhere for 10 or 20 years, then the 7% or 7.5% being marketed by Compass may not be that terrible...historically,that's still a fairly low rate. However, in 3-4 years you won't build up much home equity, so buying might not be a good deal if you are just about to do a peds or IM residency or something, and then move out of the area.

I am looking into possibly getting a FHA loan myself...for that you do need to have a small down payment though...3.5%. You do have to pay mortgage insurance also.

One thing that is important to remember about not having to pay PMI or pay any points is that neither of these things by itself makes a loan a good deal. You have to look at the APR on the loan, and get a list of the fees you'll be paying at closing. If there is "no PMI" but the interest rate is 1% higher than most other loans, that wouldn't necessarily be a good deal...you'd just be paying more interest instead of paying a mortgage insurance premium...either way it's extra money you are paying out.
 
Very excellent points. So unfortunately, if one waits a year to save up, they won't be able to take advantage of the $8000 tax credit. Also, its my understanding that prospective interns cannot get FHA loans without already actually being interns and buying a house in the middle of intern year doesn't exactly fit into a q4 lifestyle. Is that not correct about FHA mortgages?

I too am very uneasy with the BOA news. Are there any banks out there that will still do 80/20 loans in declining markets??? or other no-down payment situations (ie with PMI)? I have to give Suntrust a call to find out what mortgages they are offering and if they have them in my state. Compass quoted me 6% on a 5/1 ARM- not great but not 7.5% either (I assume that was on a 30 year). We would be able to build a little equity with that rate. We are ok with a 5/1- even the worst case of 11% year six wouldn't be impossible as an attending (and i'm fine staying in the same geographic area- that's been my plan all along and my fellowship (if I match at my number 1) will be attached to my residency without a separate application).

It is a tough decision though. I don't want to get taken for a ride by Compass or any other broker though. We don't want to deplete our savings to buy something..Any thoughts?

With BOA done with the doctor loan program, I wanted to provide advice to those shopping for a mortgage, especially with Compass Bank. I got a BOA loan 3 years ago and it was great, and I am in the process of selling my current home and upgrading. I was preapproved with BOA for my next loan, but that has since changed with their scrapping of their program. I looked into other banks, but SunTrust doesn't lend in my state.

Compass on the other hand is trying hard to take advantage of the lack of competition and the naivity of many of us getting our first loan. I have excellent credit and money for a downpayment and with my wife's job have much higher income than most residents, yet despite this, Compass wanted to charge a whopping 7.5% APR on a loan. Not only that, they were enocuraging us to put no money down despite the cash for a downpayment.

Do the math guys before locking into a loan like this. If you put nothing down with a rate this high, the amount of interest you are paying is astronomical. If you are planning on selling in 3-5 years, to make this cost effective for you, even with the tax deduction it will get you, your home would have to have quite a bit of appreciation. You can forget about that in this market. The value of your home may go down. Furthermore, it is very difficult to refinance if you have less than 20% of equity in your home. Equity can come from your monthly payment, which will take close to 10 years to accumulate to 20% of the home's value, and from appreciation of its market value, which may not happen during your residency.

Furthermore, keep in mind that we often have our homes for 3-5 years during residency. If you are moving out of the area on a certain date (eg, before starting fellowship), you have a very small window of time to sell your home. This puts you in a pinch and forces you to list your home less than what you may want to. With putting no money down, it puts you at risk of not selling your home for more than what you owe on it, forcing a bank approved short sale. For example, I bought my townhome for 208K in 2006 with no money down. Currently, we owe 199K on it. Right now, townhomes in my subdivision are selling from 190-210K because of the crappy market.

What I am saying is be sure to weigh your options. It may be smarter to rent for a year or two to save some money and build your credit to get a better loan. Or if you really want to buy, it may be much better to try and get an FHA loan or some other conventional loan and pay PMI. If you get an FHA loan at 5.5% and pay PMI, your APR will still be much less than what you will pay with no PMI at Compass. And FHA loans with good credit will permit a 55% debt-to-income ratio, making your student loans essentially a non-issue. Most importantly, you can get an FHA loan from almost any bank, so you there is more competition for your business.

Furthermore, the people with the doctor's loan programs take a commission, so it is not in their best interest to give you a good deal. Talk to as many banks as possible, because there are many that don't take a commission, and will give the best rates as possible as dictated by the current market.

So think hard about your loan. There are a lot of shady loan officers out there, and residents are prime targets for being taken advanatage of. We are responsible borrowers, so many of us will not default. Furthermore, we have little cash for a down payment, very little credit (not bad credit, but just no credit since many of us havent had credit card debt or car loans to build our credit) and high student debt, so the doctor's loan programs can exploit this and make us think no one else will give us a loan. There are honest people out there that will work with you, so talk to people and make sure you get a Good Faith Estimate from them for good measure.

With this market, it may not be a good idea to buy right now if you can't get a good loan. Even though prices are down, if your loan is outrageous, it negates the value you are getting on the home. Furthermore, always keep in mind your plan for selling. If you are going to have to sell in a short time frame, it may make it difficult for you to get the yield on your investment they need.

To be clear, I am not saying that all physician loan programs are bad. But Compass will tell you they are expanding their physician loan program with BOA stopping there's. Without that competition, you may not get a great deal. Ask lots of questions, talk to many lenders, and don't be afraid to ask for lower rates. When I got my first doctor loan, I was told it was by far the best rate I could get and there was no way he could come down on my rate. When I talked to other banks who offered a lower rate, BOA promptly came down a half-point on their rate to match it. Good luck!
 
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If you think you are likely to want to stay in the same house for fellowship + residency, then buying still might not be a bad deal...even if the interest rate is 7%. The 8k tax credit is a big deal.

You might need to be currently employed to get an FHA loan...not sure. If you are married and the spouse is working you probably could get an FHA loan based on his/her income.

Agree that buying in the middle of intern year would suck...you probably won't want to do that.

Is the 6% rate you were quoted a rate on the loan itself, or was it an APR? I'll bet it was just the rate on the loan, but an APR is a better way to compare one loan vs. another, since it includes some other fees, etc. that aren't included when they just quote you the interest rate on the loan. Also, make sure the 6% they were quoting you was with zero points paid...if you have to pay points to get the 6% rate, that's going to be another $1000-2000 you are shelling out at closing.
 
Yeah I don't think we could get the FHA loan we'd want with just one income documented. I believe the 6% is the APR without points. It was included in the GFE and monthly payments were indicated with taxes and fees included (including a 1% origination fee). I have emailed them to double check. This is a 5/1 with a 5/2/5 cap. It seems from previous posts that the Compass GFEs are high and fairly comprehensive to avoid surprises. Many of the properties we are looking at are willing to pay some or all of closing costs, which would be wonderful and leaves only the pre-paids. We will only do this if I get the program that has the residency and fellowship combined (child psychiatry) as it just doesn't make sense otherwise.


If you think you are likely to want to stay in the same house for fellowship + residency, then buying still might not be a bad deal...even if the interest rate is 7%. The 8k tax credit is a big deal.

You might need to be currently employed to get an FHA loan...not sure. If you are married and the spouse is working you probably could get an FHA loan based on his/her income.

Agree that buying in the middle of intern year would suck...you probably won't want to do that.

Is the 6% rate you were quoted a rate on the loan itself, or was it an APR? I'll bet it was just the rate on the loan, but an APR is a better way to compare one loan vs. another, since it includes some other fees, etc. that aren't included when they just quote you the interest rate on the loan. Also, make sure the 6% they were quoting you was with zero points paid...if you have to pay points to get the 6% rate, that's going to be another $1000-2000 you are shelling out at closing.
 
Home Mortgages aren't the only things that people are going to try to take advantage of you about. It is wise to surround yourself with advisors that are trustworthy and have your best interest at heart.

How do you find those people? Through word-of-mouth. Talk to successful doctors and business who have had DIRECT experience with the person they suggest.

This will often go a long ways toward weeding through the many options in advisors available to you.
 
A number of things posted here are correct and some aren't. Yes, we have expanded our program to now include dentists.

To try and set some things straight, we offer mortgage loans up to $1 million with no down payment and no PMI. Today's interest rate on a Jumbo loan (over $417,000) 30 yr. fixed rate was 6.125%. That is with a 1% orig. fee. We can lend in Florida, Alabama, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, and Arizona.

We also had ARMS, the most popular being the 5/1 ARM, which is designed to help the new Resident Physicians, as we know they probably won't be in the propert more than 5 years. The rate today was at 5.00%.

To get these rates, you have to be a Compass customer and have your payment auto-deducted.

Yes, if the loan amount is less than $417,000, the rate would be higher (no, I can't explain why that is), but that's just the way we have it structured for now.

We don't count deferred student loans, and the minumum credit score has to be at least 660. The Seller can pay every cent of your closing costs and pre-paids. You can close for nothing out-of-pocket. We can close the loan before you start work.

I will be the first to admit that if you have received your first pay stub, and have the 3.50% down payment, and FHA loan would probably be better if you are looking at a 30 yr. fixed rate, depending on the loan limits for your particular area.

Our physician's program is not for everybody, but for those that want to take advantage of it, it can be a great program.

As for APR, it is a good way to compare closing costs being charged to you, but it has no effect on your monthly payment. Just trying to set the record straight. If you are in one of our "footprint" states, or moving to one, just check with a branch bank and they can put in in touch with somebody that would be happy to help you.
 
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