Thinking about MD/PHD

[Hiphopscorpio31]

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Hello,

So I am very interested in the MD/PHD program, but I may just apply MD for some schools. I am currently a Junior and my major is Chemical Engineering at an Ivy League University. I hope to have a 3.5 gpa by the end of this year. As far as extracurriculars I have been pursuing research for about a year, an will continue to do so this year. So, I will have 2 years of research experience. I am also a varsity athlete at my school, which requires a huge commitment. Also, my team has participated and organized several community service events. I have studied a bit last summer for the MCAT and I plan to study more and take it in the spring or early summer. Do you guys think that my goal to pursue a medical degree is reachable? Also what more do you recommend I should try to do to be a better applicant? Thanks.

 

[Lucca]

First, if that is your real picture on your profile I recommend changing it just for the sake of privacy. 99% of the time it is harmless, but it is always best to be careful with privacy on the internet.

It's hard to say where your MCAT should be until this cycle is over (no data to look at!) but a 3.5 with a strong MCAT score should have a shot at MD. MD/PhD as well depending on the quality of your research experience, letters of rec, and ability to 'sell yourself' to the programs. So do you have a shot? Yes, for sure. Try to get that GPA as high as possible before applying and if you can try to present your research at a conference or get your name on a paper if it is at all possible - while this is absolutely not necessary, it gives you a bit more credibility and having a strong research record is imperative for MD/PhD admissions, especially for the NIH-funded MSTPs.

You will want to read this sticky for more info on MD/PhD chances:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-my-chances-read-before-asking.539268/

You are just below the "OK" range on GPA and almost at the "OK" range for research experience. Try to hit excellent in one or two categories (research + MCAT at this point since your GPA will likely not climb 0.3 points all of a sudden) and you should be more than fine.

Also if your ivy is HYP then that might be a little bit of a boost since those schools tend to send a lot of students to MD/PhD programs but the data is unclear on how significant this boost might be and it certainly varies by program. Being a varsity athlete will impress MD programs a lot more than it will MD/PhD programs (I'm impressed, if that is worth anything 😉 ).

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

@Lucca Thanks! I signed up through facebook and didn't realized it automatically changed my profile picture. But your post was very insightful will motivate me more to strive for medical school. I have a lot of studying to do lol 😛 . Thanks again!!

 

[DrHart]

Before you decide anything I would do some digging to make sure it's what you want to do.
From what I've been told (which you can take or leave) is that most MD/PhDs end up in a research career. PhDs I've talked to have said that the quality of graduate work in these types of programs is sometimes diminished because you're trying to squeeze the PhD inbetween the MD within 7-8 years. This obviously varies from program to program but its just what I've been told. The majority of MDs see patients, but you can definitely land a career in research as an MD.

I was on the fence for MD/PhD for a while but ultimately decided against it. While the pool of applicants is much smaller, the competition is even stronger. 3.8+, 33+ is the baseline. Financially, the idea of waived tuition and a 30k stipend during grad years may sound nice, but this is at the expense of 3-4 years of a physician salary (and you may not even pursue clinical medicine after completing the MD/PhD) - so I'm not sure how much actual difference the stipends and what not make. As for advice, Lucca covered it well. Increasing your GPA and scoring well on the MCAT should be the primary focus. Working hard at your research and trying to get a pub would make a good number 2. Shadowing, community service, and hospital volunteering would be icing on the cake. Good luck!

 

[Lucca]

Before you decide anything I would do some digging to make sure it's what you want to do.
From what I've been told (which you can take or leave) is that most MD/PhDs end up in a research career. PhDs I've talked to have said that the quality of graduate work in these types of programs is sometimes diminished because you're trying to squeeze the PhD inbetween the MD within 7-8 years. This obviously varies from program to program but its just what I've been told. The majority of MDs see patients, but you can definitely land a career in research as an MD.

I was on the fence for MD/PhD for a while but ultimately decided against it. While the pool of applicants is much smaller, the competition is even stronger. 3.8+, 33+ is the baseline. Financially, the idea of waived tuition and a 30k stipend during grad years may sound nice, but this is at the expense of 3-4 years of a physician salary (and you may not even pursue clinical medicine after completing the MD/PhD) - so I'm not sure how much actual difference the stipends and what not make. As for advice, Lucca covered it well. Increasing your GPA and scoring well on the MCAT should be the primary focus. Working hard at your research and trying to get a pub would make a good number 2. Shadowing, community service, and hospital volunteering would be icing on the cake. Good luck!

If your goal is to practice clinical medicine full time (which many MD/PhDs end up doing nowadays given that the competition for independent funding is so steep) then the tuition + stipend is a net financial loss. Even at the most expensive school in the country, 3-5 more years as an attending will beat 3-5 years of 30K/year. Definitely a bad financial decision, so you hit that nail on the head. The tuition + stipend is really, really nice if you want to pursue a majority research career since doing so typically means lower reimbursement (if 80% of your career is science and 20% is clinical then you will be reimbursed 80% like a PhD and 20% like an MD, just to give a rough estimate). If you have no debt and have a passion for science / want a career in science then the stipend + tuition is a huge boon.

If I had to pay for my PhD, I would definitely not do both, especially because -- and I neglected to mention this in my original reply -- there are pathways for straight-MDs to become physician-scientists as well. However, if I was 100-300K in debt following an MD and I had to choose between the physician scientist pathway or a full clinical pathway, the science path would become less and less attractive as the amount of debt increased.

 

[Petrichor1]

you need to shadow what a phd in biomedical sciences does...it seems you are more inclined to this program due to its benefits and not the fact of the end goal served.

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

Wow thanks guys. As a career , I want to pursue medical research (with patients?) if that is possible? I want to study diseases and conditions firsthand, and find out better ways to cure and treat them. I want to ultimately work with patients but I am unsure whether this would be more research or clinically based. I had know idea that pursuing an MD/PHD could actually be a financial loss for a clinical career pathway.

 

[enchantediris]

Wow thanks guys. As a career , I want to pursue medical research (with patients?) if that is possible? I want to study diseases and conditions firsthand, and find out better ways to cure and treat them. I want to ultimately work with patients but I am unsure whether this would be more research or clinically based. I had know idea that pursuing an MD/PHD could actually be a financial loss for a clinical career pathway.

From what I've gathered, the problem with research as an MD/PhD is that if you want to run clinical trials, you can do that with an MD. If you want to do bench research (more along the lines of curing and treating by developing new drugs), you can do that with a PhD. Either way, as an MD/PhD your split will probably be skewed much more toward research than patient contact – many of the MD/PhDs I know are in the clinic once a month if that.

 

[URHere]

As far as extracurriculars I have been pursuing research for about a year, an will continue to do so this year. So, I will have 2 years of research experience.

As a career , I want to pursue medical research (with patients?) if that is possible? I want to study diseases and conditions firsthand, and find out better ways to cure and treat them.

These are both vague statements. When you say "pursuing research", what do you mean? What kind of lab is it? Are you cleaning glassware/making buffers, working on someone else's projects, or designing your own? All of this will matter when it comes to the MD/PhD application process. Successful applicants have experience with all parts of their research - from conceiving a project, to running experiments, to data analysis, to publication and/or presentation. If you are just working as a tech, you will need a great deal more experience before you are competitive. I'd say you need a minimum of 2 years where you have at least mostly-independent projects.

As for your future career - what do you think it will look like? Do you want to run clinical trials? Observe patients and their diseases over time? Look through medical records to gain extra information? Collect samples, then do more research back at the lab? Design screening tests or interventions that will be used on patients down the line? For the first 3, you really don't need a PhD. For the last 2, a PhD would be helpful, but isn't absolutely necessary.

Ultimately, I think you need more experience to figure out if the PhD is right for you. Talk to PhDs and experience different types of research if you have the chance. Figure out what your ideal career even looks like. If you decide on MD/PhD...come back to reassess once you have more years in lab and an MCAT score.