Thinking of turning to the dark side

[DrStraggler]

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So currently, I'm a Pre-med, but, after attending a few PDS meetings and talking with friends who are pre-dent, I've been more and more drawn to the field. I'm a very family oriented person, and the stability of a dental career is certainly a draw for me.

Also, I'm interested in being my own boss in the future, and opening up a dental practice seems an excellent way to do that. Also, going through years and years of daunting medical training does not appeal to me, and, while diagnostics sounds challenging, I feel as if I would be much more at ease drawing out long term dental plans for patients, and feel as if that would be both more fulfilling and come more naturally to me.

Obviously, I will have to shadow a dentist in the near future to decide if this is really something I want to pursue, but at this point, it definitely seems so.

I had a few questions and was wondering if you could help me out with them

1.) How hard is it to create a successful practice? Does it depend upon being overly social, or is it more business focused?

2.) For admissions, are dental schools (since there are less of them) more selective than medical schools? Basically, is it harder to get into a dental school than a medical school ? (purely a reference point, as I am familiar with the rigor of medical school admissions)

3.) I'm no fame *****, but I'd like to have an Ivy league Education, is the selectivity of these Ivy institutions so high that there isn't any change of a small state school girl getting in?

4.) Can I major in Anthropology, or should I major in a science related field?



I sincerely appreciate all of the help you guys are giving me, don't know what I would do without SDN!

 

[dentalWorks]

So currently, I'm a Pre-med, but, after attending a few PDS meetings and talking with friends who are pre-dent, I've been more and more drawn to the field. I'm a very family oriented person, and the stability of a dental career is certainly a draw for me.

Also, I'm interested in being my own boss in the future, and opening up a dental practice seems an excellent way to do that. Also, going through years and years of daunting medical training does not appeal to me, and, while diagnostics sounds challenging, I feel as if I would be much more at ease drawing out long term dental plans for patients, and feel as if that would be both more fulfilling and come more naturally to me.

Obviously, I will have to shadow a dentist in the near future to decide if this is really something I want to pursue, but at this point, it definitely seems so.

I had a few questions and was wondering if you could help me out with them

1.) How hard is it to create a successful practice? Does it depend upon being overly social, or is it more business focused?

2.) For admissions, are dental schools (since there are less of them) more selective than medical schools? Basically, is it harder to get into a dental school than a medical school ? (purely a reference point, as I am familiar with the rigor of medical school admissions)

3.) I'm no fame *****, but I'd like to have an Ivy league Education, is the selectivity of these Ivy institutions so high that there isn't any change of a small state school girl getting in?

4.) Can I major in Anthropology, or should I major in a science related field?



I sincerely appreciate all of the help you guys are giving me, don't know what I would do without SDN!

for 1), no pre-dent, nor dental student, nor newly graduate can answer this with confidence. IMO however, How "easy" it is to open a successful dental practice depends on a plethora of factors:
-whats ur business skills like? (for the young 20 year old-ish pre-dent, zero)
-whats ur customer service skills like? Yes dentistry is very people-oriented, you should to be a smooth and convincing talker (ex, convince a pt they need a $700 crown instead of a $80 extraction)
-location of business (not just phyiscal location, but patient pool as well), are you in a heavily lower-class area? do they mostly have medicare/medicaid? these things HEAVILY effect your business outcome.
-how efficient are you as a dentist? do you have fast (and competent) working hands? You can have a very busy profitable practice, but if your so slow that you can only see 5-10 patients a day, your not gonna make jack, then u'll be forced to hire staff (ie other dentists) and this drives ur overhead
-overhead overhead overhead

-im sure some dentists here will add 100 more things on top of this list

2) I don't think its "harder"... approx 2-4,000 people apply to each dental school. And only about 100-150 get accepted. Other way to look at it, 12,000 people apply for 5,500 seats..... However, if you have good stats (3.4+ along with 19+, and apply to 8+ schools, you are almost "guarantee" a spot somewhere)

3) I can't answer about IVY.... but you might wanna be careful about this. Your ultimate goal for dental school (and some won't agree with me) is to attend the CHEAPEST dental school possible. Now ofc, "cheapest" in term of 50k difference between 2 schools isn't much, but it adds up quick when your talking 100k+..... Do you know what 7-8% interest rate does to a 400k loan? 😱

4) you can major in anything (doesn't have to be science), as long as you take your pre-dents

 

[goffdent]

1.) How hard is it to create a successful practice? Does it depend upon being overly social, or is it more business focused?

2.) For admissions, are dental schools (since there are less of them) more selective than medical schools? Basically, is it harder to get into a dental school than a medical school ? (purely a reference point, as I am familiar with the rigor of medical school admissions)

3.) I'm no fame *****, but I'd like to have an Ivy league Education, is the selectivity of these Ivy institutions so high that there isn't any change of a small state school girl getting in?

4.) Can I major in Anthropology, or should I major in a science related field?

1) It's very hard. School doesn't really teach you this aspect. You MUST be social, and interact well with your patients, because this not only helps your business grow, but prevents a lot of problems if something you did goes south, or you did something wrong.

2. Can't answer this. Yes there are more med schools, but there are also more pre-meds. I would assume that a lot more pre-meds abandon there goals of med school than dental school. (just surely do to sheer numbers)

3. Not necessarily, but honestly, go where it's cheaper. different schools are better for different reasons. Colleges are generally prestigous because of their undergrad program or their law program. in the health field it often does NOT matter. especially dentistry. I don't even want to waste my time talking about this, but with good stats you may have a chance to get in.

4. You can major in Anthropology, BUT......... if you know you want to go to dental school and that's all you want to do, I would go into a science major. If you go anthropology, you will still have to take all the prereqs to get into school and do well at them. The schools like to see upper level science classes so if you go the science route (which is what the first 2 years of dental school is) you will have fulfilled prereqs and hopefully boosted your application with science courses. You're just making extra work for yourself pursuing anthropology. Plus having seen some of this information will make your first couple years of dental school a little easier. In the end, if you like anthropology, just do it.. It will just be more work. but why would you??? Science (biology) is soo much cooler anyways... 🙂

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

Since when did dentistry become the dark side?

 

[DocHolliday1982]

2.) For admissions, are dental schools (since there are less of them) more selective than medical schools? Basically, is it harder to get into a dental school than a medical school ? (purely a reference point, as I am familiar with the rigor of medical school admissions)

Agree with DentWorks

Convert myself, similar reasons

Good luck

 

[TheToothsayer]

Your reasoning is great. With that mind set, you'll excel.

 

[uthscsaalum]

I'd recommend a science major, if possible. It will prepare you much better for dental school than only taking the pre-reqs.

The flip side to that is that you might have a better chance of getting in if you have an "easy" major and pull mostly As in classes required for your major to help have a stronger overall GPA. I would not recommend this route though because it means more you'll have to earn a degree plus take another 40 hours or so of pre-reqs on top of it and you will likely struggle more in the first few years of basic science classes in dental school.

 

[DrStraggler]

Well the thing is, I was contemplating two majors this year, Biology Education or Anthropology.

At my school Biology Education has 84 Credit Requirements (+ 8 b/c it doesn't include Organic II or Physics II)

Anthropology has 36 Credit Requirements (+ 32 for my Pre-Health Credits) and therefore I'd actually be less "burdened" by this.

But I will have to talk to an advisor, of course.

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=899971
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=521462
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=813958
Anthro might be a little more unique combo than the usual bio and would give you more flexibility with either career choice.

 

[Kobebucsfan]

DARK SIDE ? 😡

 

[DrStraggler]

DARK SIDE ? 😡

Hey...Isn't the dark side always the better one?!

 

[Kobebucsfan]

Hey...Isn't the dark side always the better one?!

still dont get why dentistry is the dark side

 

[DocHolliday1982]

still dont get why dentistry is the dark side

Why do you think we need lights on our heads?

 

[AllahIsGreater]

""""ex, convince a pt they need a $700 crown instead of a $80 extraction"""

Stopped reading after i got to this. If you plan to rip people off, you will never be successful in anything that you do. Money is not everything people. What will it take to show you guys that....sigh. May God guide us all.

 

[bigstix808]

""""ex, convince a pt they need a $700 crown instead of a $80 extraction"""

Stopped reading after i got to this. If you plan to rip people off, you will never be successful in anything that you do. Money is not everything people. What will it take to show you guys that....sigh. May God guide us all.

this is an absolute scenario you'll be playing out multiple times through your career as a dental student. other ways that could pan out ... convince them to get an implant to replace that tooth at a higher cost than the possible root canal and crown would be or just pull it out and hope they dont get posterior colapse of their arche and can still chew properly 5-10 yrs down the road.

not sure why you got all bent out of shape about this...but thats dentistry! trying to convince people why they need to keep their teeth!!! and take all nec actions to prevent the loss of the ones they still have.

 

[AllahIsGreater]

there is a difference between "convincing" someone, and tell the patient what they HONESTLY need. you offer them both treatments and they choose. not have them choose what will make you happy....

 

[dentalWorks]

""""ex, convince a pt they need a $700 crown instead of a $80 extraction"""

Stopped reading after i got to this. If you plan to rip people off, you will never be successful in anything that you do. Money is not everything people. What will it take to show you guys that....sigh. May God guide us all.

#1) you don't know what your talking about
#2) you still don't know what your talking about
#3) you realize, you are doing a DESERVICE to the patient when you extract natural tissue when it can very well be saved right?

 

[bigstix808]

there is a difference between "convincing" someone, and tell the patient what they HONESTLY need. you offer them both treatments and they choose. not have them choose what will make you happy....

you dont get it.... you'll see that "convincing" your pt's of a procedure/tx plan IS what they need all money aside.

and pt's dont always know the right choice based on their own knowledge so its your responsibility as the "professional" to present the facts and, yes, they will ultimately make their own decision on their tx. but you bet you're ass i'm not gonna feel bad for telling a pt they need a root canal / crown over an extraction regardless if my bottom line is for the better or not.

if you just show pt's numbers, most will take the cheaper route. thats when you step in and tell them that cheap is not always the best.

 

[UltimateHombre]

there is a difference between "convincing" someone, and tell the patient what they HONESTLY need. you offer them both treatments and they choose. not have them choose what will make you happy....

Honestly, in almost all situations a crown > extraction.

And often times, your patients decision making will be blurred by the price tag of the procedures and therefore make a decision that is not in their best interest. Like choosing an extraction over a crown.... therefore, you made need to "persuade" them and "convince" them, that there overall oral health and quality of life is better with a crown, then missing the tooth.

Patients don't know what is best for their oral health, that's why they came to see you, but they do know what's best for their wallets. Sometimes these things conflict and you need to help them see the light.

One time i heard a dentist say (to this exact scenario), "To be honest, i would rather put the crown on and you make payments for awhile, then pull that tooth. You are going to wish you had it later in life."

 

[goffdent]

#1) you don't know what your talking about
#2) you still don't know what your talking about
#3) you realize, you are doing a DESERVICE to the patient when you extract natural tissue when it can very well be saved right?

Mr. Jenkins.. Let's go ahead and crown that broken down third molar...

 

[AllahIsGreater]

Thats the point, if its better for them than you only give them that ONE treatment option. In the case where they tell you hey doc i cant afford it, than you can explain to them why its better. This is called honesty. You dont have to agree with me. Being honest and compassionate with people has gotten me a long way, and I plan to stick to my values and morals. To each his own.

 

[dentalWorks]

Thats the point, if its better for them than you only give them that ONE treatment option. In the case where they tell you hey doc i cant afford it, than you can explain to them why its better. This is called honesty. You dont have to agree with me. Being honest and compassionate with people has gotten me a long way, and I plan to stick to my values and morals. To each his own.

Huh? who the hell said anything about not being honest? Where is this coming from?!?!

 

[goffdent]

Thats the point, if its better for them than you only give them that ONE treatment option. In the case where they tell you hey doc i cant afford it, than you can explain to them why its better. This is called honesty. You dont have to agree with me. Being honest and compassionate with people has gotten me a long way, and I plan to stick to my values and morals. To each his own.

YOU HAVE TO DO THIS according to the ADA guide to profesisonal conduct and ethics.'

"Code of Professional Conduct

1.A. Patient Involvement. The dentist should inform the patient of the proposed treatment, and any reasonable alternatives, in a manner that allows the patient to become involved in treatment decisions. "



You must present all treatment options EVE?N if they can't afford them. They have to know all the options that are available.. You don't want to get in trouble down the road...

 

[AwesomeTeeth]

Guys chill out. This is way off topic.

 

[Bereno]

still dont get why dentistry is the dark side

Don't get all bent out of shape over this lol.

To us predents, Med school is "the dark side", and to the premed students, dentistry is "the dark side"... Its kinda like having school spirit (or whatever you call it) when you believe that your rival school is "evil" haha.

OP: getting into dental school is just as hard as getting into medical school. Hell, for many dental schools, the first two years are in the med school. As far as how difficult it is to operate your own practice; someone else will have to add to that.

Best of luck!

 

[DentalJedi]

Hey...Isn't the dark side always the better one?!

I know you're just coming here to ask some questions, but do NOT joke about the dark side. That kind of underestimation is what allowed the sith to take power in the first place.

"Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. I'm a jedi, like my father before me."

JK, but yea do some shadowing and see if you like it.

 

[dentalWorks]

YOU HAVE TO DO THIS according to the ADA guide to profesisonal conduct and ethics.'

"Code of Professional Conduct

1.A. Patient Involvement. The dentist should inform the patient of the proposed treatment, and any reasonable alternatives, in a manner that allows the patient to become involved in treatment decisions. "



You must present all treatment options EVE?N if they can't afford them. They have to know all the options that are available.. You don't want to get in trouble down the road...

someones taking professional ethics

 

[goffdent]

someones taking professional ethics

Haha... yeah. last year actually. Not so much on it this year. Which reminds me.. So many people say that D2 year is the worst of them all.. I think it is 5x better than D1 year. I"m sure it will change once prosth clinic starts though. 😡

 

[AllahIsGreater]

I dont want to argue with you guys, because thats not what I am here to do. You guys have all helped me tremendously especially you dentalworks with all your posts. If i misunderstood you, than I apologize. I just thought you were saying that we have to convince aka saying force them in a nicer way, into the treatment option that benefits our pocket primarily and their teeth secondarily. I still feel the ADA rules posted actually verify what I am saying, as they say the patient must know about all the treatment plans the cons/benefits of each and the decision is solely up to them. All I am trying to say is if the patient doesnt need a root canal, or crown, and just needs a filling or extraction, dont try to convince them to do something they do not need. Why do I say this? I work in the dental clinic, and I see how doctors are so buried in debt they sometimes forgot they are human. Thats all. Peace be upon you guys.

 

[sacapuntas]

""""ex, convince a pt they need a $700 crown instead of a $80 extraction"""

Stopped reading after i got to this. If you plan to rip people off, you will never be successful in anything that you do. Money is not everything people. What will it take to show you guys that....sigh. May God guide us all.

EDIT: saw lots of people already said what I said after reading the thread so I removed it not to go down the same road again.


Also, allah you have a tendency to make straw man arguments to take the 'high road' against. You should take time to understand what people are writing instead of wanting to claim moral superiority to them.

 

[goffdent]

The whole argument thing kind of confused me because it seemed like you were both saying the same thing anyways... I don't get it. It's pretty simple. If you have a boat payment coming up or a summer home mortgage due... you persuade them to the more expensive option. kidding... you know the answer to these questions. (although many forget once they've been practicing for a few years. sadly..)