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This ad I saw on LinkedIn yesterday honestly baffled me

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VictorOfHungerGames

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Around the time they switch to $150,000 application fee with guaranteed acceptance and free tuition
The requirement should be being able match the picture on the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen while also being able to stand for 10 hours straight without having to go to the bathroom or eat. If you do that, you're golden. You should get a full scholarship and be rewarded being on the top of the dean's list of the list.
 
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PharmtoCS

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You know, you folks are a miserable, depressing lot. Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you people?

You said it yourself perfectly in a different thread.

I also considered a career in pharmacy, but after doing some research online I quickly realized the profession isn't like it used to be. I would recommend against it, personally. A lot of people in my local pharmacy school are worried about not being able to get a job, and apparently being a hard worker/being top of class/otherwise having a great, well-rounded resume doesn't count for anything. Pharmacists are just seen as disposable labor, which is quite frankly an insult to the education required to become a pharmacist.
 
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mentos

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what's wrong with it? In case you don't watch news, since March, all classes have gone online, Johns Hopkins MD program included. You guys are so disconnected.

Based on the ad it looks like this program is exclusively online, not due to Covid-19. Plus they are showing their desperation by advertising the PCAT waiver. Schools used to stop taking applications by the end of January, now they are paying for ads begging for customers - I mean students.
 
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mentos

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We're pharmacists! What more do you need to know?

They want us to say there are high paying jobs in desirable areas for ambulatory care and hospital positions with flex schedules and generous benefits. They want us to say the job market will correct itself so things will be all fine and and dandy by the time they graduate. They also want us to tell them their loans will be forgiven. Stop being so negative!
 
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Thoughtfulsinner

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You know, you folks are a miserable, depressing lot. Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you people?
Most of these people are in their late 30s/early 40s stuck in a career that will give way to automation within a decade and too old to start over. They will most likely be working as a stocker at home depot once their pharmacy degrees a worth less than a used square of toilet paper during a colonoscopy prep.
 
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WVUPharm2007

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Most of these people are in their late 30s/early 40s stuck in a career that will give way to automation within a decade and too old to start over. They will most likely be working as a stocker at home depot once their pharmacy degrees a worth less than a used square of toilet paper during a colonoscopy prep.


That's me. I am saving a ton of money and have backup plan ideas, though.
 

mentos

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Most of these people are in their late 30s/early 40s stuck in a career that will give way to automation within a decade and too old to start over. They will most likely be working as a stocker at home depot once their pharmacy degrees a worth less than a used square of toilet paper during a colonoscopy prep.

I have a unicorn job that I like very much. But I do need to come up with a backup plan, no pharmacy job is secure anymore. Hopefully my mortgage will be paid off by the time the gravy train passes by.
 

Xenophylia

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I'm just hoping to retire by the time the pharmacy train finally derails. I can't imagine someone facing 30+ years of a pharmacy career and banking on there being a future in it. It boggles my mind. I'm just hoping it manages to last another 10 or so, and even that might be pushing it....

The only way to stop the horrible chains (CVS, Walgreens et al) and kill off the greedy schools is for NO ONE to enter the profession anymore. The profession is dying, why not euthanize it? And yet the new grads line up, ignoring those already in the field by distorting facts to fit the reality THEY WANT. Not the reality THAT IS. And as long as these corporate demons are fed they'll continue to exist. The best thing we can give the profession is OUR ABSENCE. Let it die already!
 
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VictorOfHungerGames

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I'm just hoping to retire by the time the pharmacy train finally derails. I can't imagine someone facing 30+ years of a pharmacy career and banking on there being a future in it. It boggles my mind. I'm just hoping it manages to last another 10 or so, and even that might be pushing it....

The only way to stop the horrible chains (CVS, Walgreens et al) and kill off the greedy schools is for NO ONE to enter the profession anymore. The profession is dying, why not euthanize it? And yet the new grads line up, ignoring those already in the field by distorting facts to fit the reality THEY WANT. Not the reality THAT IS. And as long as these corporate demons are fed they'll continue to exist. The best thing we can give the profession is OUR ABSENCE. Let it die already!
Dying? It's dead. The corpse is rotting and maggots have settled in. Whatever meat that is left on its dead body will be cleared out by the hyenas aka insurance companies.
 
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mentos

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Many likely got hired prior to passing their exams. Like over 90% of my class already had jobs/residencies lined up before we even graduated.

Notice how they don't provide average salary and don't break it down to how many got full time vs part time, per diem or temp jobs? How convenient.

How many of these 90% employed got full time 40 hours? I'm guessing less than 20% since 32 hours is standard with the chains now. Residencies don't count since those are temp jobs. Part time and PRN don't count.

So yeah, if you include the pharmacists who got 32 hours or less, part time, PRN and temp jobs then those add up to 90% or whatever this school advertises. If you take the average salary of your class then it's probably around $70,000/year. Sounds much nicer than 20% employed with $120,000/year full time 40 hours, doesn't it?
 
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Xenophylia

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And yet this still must look appealing to some. They're lining up- with wallets open- to fill up those seats. Amazing. Never underestimate human stupidity.
 
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BidingMyTime

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How is employment 100% if 3% did not pass the license exam? These numbers are manipulated.

It's probably like how they do it in law school, law schools hire their own graduates for 6 months after graduation, so they can say they had 100% employment of the class, then they let them go, so they can hire the next bunch of suckers for 6 months.
 
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BidingMyTime

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Based on the ad it looks like this program is exclusively online, not due to Covid-19. Plus they are showing their desperation by advertising the PCAT waiver. Schools used to stop taking applications by the end of January, now they are paying for ads begging for customers - I mean students.

This is not the first completely on-line school of pharmacy, there are others, some pretty well respected (Creighton School of Pharmacy.) All the on-line schools do require on-campus for a few weeks a year, they (if possible) set up the rotations in the area where the student lives. Exams are proctored. Really, it's no different than students who go to a brick and mortar and skip all their classes. Which, I'm not saying the school in the OP is a quality school, I don't know anything about it, just that it's being on-line wouldn't have anything to do with it's quality.
 
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WVUPharm2007

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I really don't see what the big deal about it being online is. All they do is read powerpoints to you. Does it really matter if its in person or over Google Meet? Nothing in the majority of a typical pharmacy school curriculum is so complicated that it requires hands on teaching. Rotations obviously need to be in person. But **** like therapeutics class and pharmacology? Meh.
 
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allantois

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I really don't see what the big deal about it being online is. All they do is read powerpoints to you. Does it really matter if its in person or over Google Meet? Nothing in the majority of a typical pharmacy school curriculum is so complicated that it requires hands on teaching. Rotations obviously need to be in person. But **** like therapeutics class and pharmacology? Meh.

People like to crap on NPs for having online education (don't get me wrong, there are many issues with their education, but it's not the fact that it is online). Well now Harvard MD is going online for the Fall semester. We have such a huge crisis of higher education that something needs to be done to reform it. Perhaps this will be it. Even now, there are a couple of online platforms that everyone utilizes for learning and people are basically paying money to schools for a piece of paper.
 
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mentos

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This is not the first completely on-line school of pharmacy, there are others, some pretty well respected (Creighton School of Pharmacy.) All the on-line schools do require on-campus for a few weeks a year, they (if possible) set up the rotations in the area where the student lives. Exams are proctored. Really, it's no different than students who go to a brick and mortar and skip all their classes. Which, I'm not saying the school in the OP is a quality school, I don't know anything about it, just that it's being on-line wouldn't have anything to do with it's quality.

How do they proctor exams? What is preventing the whole class from taking the exams together or sharing answers? I heard many students did this all over the country (for all majors) since the quarantine started.
 

harvoni_rituxan

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How do they proctor exams? What is preventing the whole class from taking the exams together or sharing answers? I heard many students did this all over the country (for all majors) since the quarantine started.
RPNow, which is the remote proctoring software, asks you to show your surrounding, the room, underneath the desk, and the tabletop prior to starting the electronic exam. During the exam, your pc background processes and every keystroke is recorded, your face, voice and action is videotaped, and your screen is also recorded in real time. When the exam ends, it submits the whole record to proctor centers for analysis.

No kidding, you can't cheat at all when RPNow is on, it's way better than human proctors.
 
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penpenclown

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RPNow, which is the remote proctoring software, asks you to show your surrounding, the room, underneath the desk, and the tabletop prior to starting the electronic exam. During the exam, your pc background processes and every keystroke is recorded, your face, voice and action is videotaped, and your screen is also recorded in real time. When the exam ends, it submits the whole record to proctor centers for analysis.

No kidding, you can't cheat at all when RPNow is on, it's way better than human proctors.
You can totally cheat with that if you're creative enough.
 
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harvoni_rituxan

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You can totally cheat with that if you're creative enough.
at least it's harder to cheat than writing a paper exam together with hundreds of people but only a few proctors walking around. You can totally cheat with a small cheat sheet hiding in your sleeves. I have seen many done that, it's so prevalent.
 
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mentos

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RPNow, which is the remote proctoring software, asks you to show your surrounding, the room, underneath the desk, and the tabletop prior to starting the electronic exam. During the exam, your pc background processes and every keystroke is recorded, your face, voice and action is videotaped, and your screen is also recorded in real time. When the exam ends, it submits the whole record to proctor centers for analysis.

No kidding, you can't cheat at all when RPNow is on, it's way better than human proctors.

So after they show their room what's stopping them from placing their notes on the wall or even another laptop on their desk?
 

owlegrad

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So after they show their room what's stopping them from placing their notes on the wall or even another laptop on their desk?

I presume you have to be recorded the whole time.
 

owlegrad

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Do they put the camera behind you? I thought you just use webcam. I don't get how they can see the whole room.

Well if you pan the camera around the whole room and then have to be recorded the whole time how would you use a second computer? I guess an accomplice could be off screen feeding you information but honestly I think it would be harder than you think to cheat while you are being recorded.

I guess unless you are Light, in which case it is easy.
 
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harvoni_rituxan

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Do they put the camera behind you? I thought you just use webcam. I don't get how they can see the whole room.
it is recording all the time. once you say you are ready for the exam, they will prompt you to take the carmera to show the whole room, your photo id, your face, door closed, window, all your exam taking area (they will ask you to have a clean desktop prior to the exam, and leave only allowed items on the table ), if notes is allowed, you have to show both sides of the notes. all immediate surroundings and walls, no other people is allowed in that room. video, sound, keystroke, and screenshot are recorded all the time, and your face has to be in the camera all the time too. you are not allowed to leave the seat. if you are not in the frame for a few seconds, you risk getting flagged by the proctors when they review the recording.

it is far difficult to cheat than a lot of people might think. for one of the class i took for cs, they allowed open book exam, 6 hours for 4 big questions. we were allowed to browse anything we like, github, stack overflow, youtube included, but we were not allowed to post questions about the exam, ie, ask how to solve any sub-questions on stack overflow. half the class didn't even make it to question 3. we were asked to clean a dirty data set in the very first step. i mean, even if some guy post the whole question on stack overflow, nobody can respond to that, without seeing the whole data set, which was like 3 million lines of entry. we can't download the data set, so unless you ask someone else to take the exam for you, which is pretty much impossible (you have to be in the camera the whole time, and they will verify your face and photo id before you begin), there is no way to cheat. If you are so brilliant and figured out a way to cheat the system, I mean, you are well deserving that degree!
 
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mentos

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it is recording all the time. once you say you are ready for the exam, they will prompt you to take the carmera to show the whole room, your photo id, your face, door closed, window, all your exam taking area (they will ask you to have a clean desktop prior to the exam, and leave only allowed items on the table ), if notes is allowed, you have to show both sides of the notes. all immediate surroundings and walls, no other people is allowed in that room. video, sound, keystroke, and screenshot are recorded all the time, and your face has to be in the camera all the time too. you are not allowed to leave the seat. if you are not in the frame for a few seconds, you risk getting flagged by the proctors when they review the recording.

it is far difficult to cheat than a lot of people might think. for one of the class i took for cs, they allowed open book exam, 6 hours for 4 big questions. we were allowed to browse anything we like, github, stack overflow, youtube included, but we were not allowed to post questions about the exam, ie, ask how to solve any sub-questions on stack overflow. half the class didn't even make it to question 3. we were asked to clean a dirty data set in the very first step. i mean, even if some guy post the whole question on stack overflow, nobody can respond to that, without seeing the whole data set, which was like 3 million lines of entry. we can't download the data set, so unless you ask someone else to take the exam for you, which is pretty much impossible (you have to be in the camera the whole time, and they will verify your face and photo id before you begin), there is no way to cheat. If you are so brilliant and figured out a way to cheat the system, I mean, you are well deserving that degree!

A 6 hour CS exam is a lot different than a 45 minute multiple choice pharmacy exam.
 

mentos

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Well if you pan the camera around the whole room and then have to be recorded the whole time how would you use a second computer? I guess an accomplice could be off screen feeding you information but honestly I think it would be harder than you think to cheat while you are being recorded.

I guess unless you are Light, in which case it is easy.

What is Light?
 

Hedgehog32

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it is recording all the time. once you say you are ready for the exam, they will prompt you to take the carmera to show the whole room, your photo id, your face, door closed, window, all your exam taking area (they will ask you to have a clean desktop prior to the exam, and leave only allowed items on the table ), if notes is allowed, you have to show both sides of the notes. all immediate surroundings and walls, no other people is allowed in that room. video, sound, keystroke, and screenshot are recorded all the time, and your face has to be in the camera all the time too. you are not allowed to leave the seat. if you are not in the frame for a few seconds, you risk getting flagged by the proctors when they review the recording.

it is far difficult to cheat than a lot of people might think. for one of the class i took for cs, they allowed open book exam, 6 hours for 4 big questions. we were allowed to browse anything we like, github, stack overflow, youtube included, but we were not allowed to post questions about the exam, ie, ask how to solve any sub-questions on stack overflow. half the class didn't even make it to question 3. we were asked to clean a dirty data set in the very first step. i mean, even if some guy post the whole question on stack overflow, nobody can respond to that, without seeing the whole data set, which was like 3 million lines of entry. we can't download the data set, so unless you ask someone else to take the exam for you, which is pretty much impossible (you have to be in the camera the whole time, and they will verify your face and photo id before you begin), there is no way to cheat. If you are so brilliant and figured out a way to cheat the system, I mean, you are well deserving that degree!

So about half of the CS class failed the exam? Is what you described (4 question exams given over 6 hrs) a common thing in a CS course?
 
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