This is where I'm at and I could use some advice (lengthy)

[Radtad]

I'm just going to jump right into it. I am 32 and the sole supporter of my household. I've been married for twelve years and have two kids (7) and (9). I have been working as a nuclear medicine technologist for the last eight years at a large hospital. During that time I received my undergraduate in biology (pre-med emphasis) since I only had an AS in nuclear medicine. After receiving my undergrad the summer of 2012 I decided to take a some time off and enjoy life a little. A year went by and then I slowly started studying for the MCAT. I took the MCAT for the first time in June and scored much lower than I had on my practice tests etc. I don't know what happened.

Here's where things start to get a little mixed up. I had my hopes set on going to UNSOM since its where I live which makes it easier for the family, friends, kids, etc. I was told by a friend that was accepted last year that the early decision program was much more laid back than the general application process. So I thought this is what I'm going to try and do. The deadline for early decision is Aug 1st and AMCAS says it can take up to six weeks to process your application so I had decided to take a leap of faith and apply to the early decision program before knowing my MCAT score. Well it didn't work out. I only got a 25 and the min requirement is a 29. I was notified of my shortcomings and told I could apply to the regular MD. I retook the MCAT on the 12th of this month (Sept) and I feel super confident that I did substantially better than last time. Ironically, however, it seems as if I am yet again submitting an application on a "leap of faith" type basis. I'm to the point now to where I'm like, "what the hell right?" I mean I already paid the application fee so I might as well just see if it works out.

Lately I have been questioning myself about my goals and how I have only had a sort of tunnel vision. I am going to do this one way and get there by taking this exact route, but what about this way or that path? I know that doesn't make any sense so bare with me. I have had a plan as to how I am going to obtain this goal of mine, becoming a physician, and I have become so fixated on it that I haven't even reached out to see if other doors will open or considered other paths to the same outcome. I was only applying to UNSOM. I know stupid right? Why not apply every where, within reason of course? It will only increase my chances of acceptance right? So again my problem is the MCAT. Many schools that I have been considering have deadlines around Oct 1st which is of course before my results will be posted. If I submit my application with my pathetic 25 will they just throw it out or wait for my new score. Yes, I have already updated my AMCAS saying I had a test date of Sept 12th, but will they wait?? I feel like answering my own question; What the hell, why not? I already paid the fee. I'm not sure if this is the right attitude so advice me if I should do differently.

I have also been considering DO schools but from what I have read it seems as if they are limited in specializing to a certain degree. With my background it seems fitting to go into radiology, in particular interventional radiology, although, I am also super interested in surgery. Ultimately I just don't want to be limited in what I decide to do. If I were to go to a DO school how limited would I be. I have heard some alopathic residencies wont accept DO's but are there DO residencies for the same type of positions?

And finally, like I said in the beginning I am the sole provider for our family. I like it that way. I don't want my kids to be raised by someone else. Not bashing people that have to do it, I just would rather not. So I have planned on joining the Army reserves to pay for medical school and pay me while I go. I don't mind the service commitment. And having the health insurance is a huge bonus. I figure this way my wife can continue to be with our kids while I devote my time to school. Is the Army reserves the best branch to go into though? Will I get to choose my specialty, if I have the scores to back it up of course? Will they pay back my undergraduate debt with the G.I. bill?

Summary of questions:

Should I apply to more MD schools?
Will most schools wait for my updated MCAT scores before tossing my application? They will be posted literally two weeks after some of the deadlines.
How limited are DO's in there residency options if I cant get into MD?
Which branch of the military would be ideal for my situation and why?
Will the government pay back some of my undergraduate loans through the GI bill?
What are my chances of being considered?

Oh wait, I have a 3.56 GPA. Eight years experience in molecular imaging obtained a level 2 trauma center with three different working sites, PET/CT, general nuc's, and nuclear cardiology. I have experience with all possible patient types from peds to death. I'm the lead tech. Great LOR's from work and the chief medical director of interventional cardiology. I could get more letters from a few physicians if need be. I just hate asking because I know everyone is super busy. I'm not sure about the professors LOR's that I received cause I cant see them. Working full time while going to school left little time to mingle on campus or do research, but I still got two professors to recommend me.


So this is where I am at. I have been rolling through these questions for some time now and would really appreciate some advice. I haven't met anybody in my situation who has gone through med school while supporting a family on a military plan so to speak. I feel like I'm going at this kinda blind. Which is stressful considering my family's future, and my lifelong goal is riding on my decisions.
I would also like some criticism on my personal letter if I could get it. Should I post that in another independent thread?
Sorry for the length.Thanks for reading and in advance for your feedback.

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[Goro]

As of right now it's really late.

Should I apply to more MD schools?

Nope. A 25 is lethal for MD schools as well. Keep in mind that many schools will avg scores, so unless you scored well into the 30s, you're more limited in your options. This is all academic right now until you know your 2nd score.

Will most schools wait for my updated MCAT scores before tossing my application? They will be posted literally two weeks after some of the deadlines.

DOs are NOT limited and if you don't believe me, ask the KCUMB grads who went to Mayo, or my own grads, who have gone into Neurology, Orthopedics, Cardiology, Anesthesiology, Ophthalmology. I've met DO nephrologists and rheumatologists (the Dean of TUNCOM is one). Yes, there are RDs who refuse to admit DOs and yes, you might have to work a little harder at getting an ACGME residency, but this will be less of an issue with the coming AOA/ACGME merger.

How limited are DO's in there residency options if I cant get into MD?
Haven't a clue. For what it's worth, I had friend who served on a tin can in the US Navy and he called it "like being in jail with a chance of drowning".
Which branch of the military would be ideal for my situation and why?

I don't think so. Hopefully some of the vets here can elaborate
Will the government pay back some of my undergraduate loans through the GI bill?

At MD schools? None. At DO school, TUNCOM is worth a shot, as well as the newer DO programs. Skip the other Touros, CCOM and AZCOM
What are my chances of being considered?

 

[Radtad]

how does your wife feel about this?

Well she's not too keen on the idea of having to move around and being at the mercy of the military. Her main concern as well as mine is having a stable home life for our children. It seems as if everybody has their own opinion about how good or bad it will be trying to raise a family in the military. Of those giving feedback none have been medical students with a family in the military, hence the post. We have just tried to analyze the situation objectively mostly from info gathered on the net, here is what I have and I hope that someone can chime in confirm or correct me if I'm wrong.

It would be five years from right now before I graduated medical school. My kids would be 14 and 12.
I plan on specializing radiology or surgery. From what I understand that's a four year residency with another two for fellowship (possibly) for a total of six years. My kids would be 20 and 18 before I even start to repay my service commitment. So from what I understand, even if my numbers are a little off, my kids would be in college, or close to it, by the time I would have to move where ever the military wants me. Worse case scenario move for med school, move again for residency which would be here in the states through the military. Two moves while the kids are still under my roof isn't too bad and has helped ease her concerns as well as my own. She and I aren't too concerned about being stationed outside of the U.S. once the kids are out of the picture. We actually look at it as an adventure.

It has been hard for her and she understands how hard its going to be especially during the residency. But she also knows how much it means to me and supports me. We also include the kids in our conversations and support their input because it will also affect their lives. They, to my surprise, are excited to move and see new places, people, etc.

 

[GUH]

Well she's not too keen on the idea of having to move around and being at the mercy of the military. Her main concern as well as mine is having a stable home life for our children. It seems as if everybody has their own opinion about how good or bad it will be trying to raise a family in the military. Of those giving feedback none have been medical students with a family in the military, hence the post. We have just tried to analyze the situation objectively mostly from info gathered on the net, here is what I have and I hope that someone can chime in confirm or correct me if I'm wrong.

It would be five years from right now before I graduated medical school. My kids would be 14 and 12.
I plan on specializing radiology or surgery. From what I understand that's a four year residency with another two for fellowship (possibly) for a total of six years. My kids would be 20 and 18 before I even start to repay my service commitment. So from what I understand, even if my numbers are a little off, my kids would be in college, or close to it, by the time I would have to move where ever the military wants me. Worse case scenario move for med school, move again for residency which would be here in the states through the military. Two moves while the kids are still under my roof isn't too bad and has helped ease her concerns as well as my own. She and I aren't too concerned about being stationed outside of the U.S. once the kids are out of the picture. We actually look at it as an adventure.

It has been hard for her and she understands how hard its going to be especially during the residency. But she also knows how much it means to me and supports me. We also include the kids in our conversations and support their input because it will also affect their lives. They, to my surprise, are excited to move and see new places, people, etc.

General Surgery is five or more years, depending on the program.

 

[Radtad]

Goro,
For some reason I was under the impression that the AMACAS will update my application with the new MCAT scores once they are posted and those updates will be sent to the schools that I had applied to. But how long do they wait before they calculate the GPA/MCAT scores, see I'm below the cut off, and throw it out even though it will show on my application that I have taken it on Sept 12 just no scores yet?

Also, I don't think any schools that I have looked at have said that they average the MCAT. Most that I have looked into say they take the most recent. Is it only some that do that? It just doesn't make sense.

I know it may be late, some of the other schools that I am considering applying to (OHSU, UC Davis, UW, Arizona, Baylor, Colorado, pretty much everywhere in the western half of the US) have a Oct 1st or later deadline and so I could still make it right? And like I had said in the OP, why not apply? What do I have to lose if I do?

Finally, I have been seriously considering a DO school since I really like their mission statement. I am just worried that I wont be able to get where I want to be after I have already worked hard and made sacrifices to get where I am now. And I don't know if it would matter since I would be doing my residency through the military. Again if someone could give some clarification, it would be greatly appreciated. I actually received two emails from KCUMB asking me to apply to their early decision program. I think they send them to everybody that takes the MCAT, but I'm not sure. I have also heard good things about the MSUCOM program, but I dont know about the TUNCOM as I know they are new.
I know my MCAT as of now is not great, but I have a very good feeling about the one I took on Sept 12. I strongly believe it is above the 30 mark. I just don't want to sell my self short. I have a ton of healthcare experience, and a great GPA (in my opinion) for someone who worked full time, was on call many nights, and solely supported a family. I feel like I should have options and not just have to settle.

 

[Rady Ruck]

Hi Rad,

Relying on the military for your school expenses could impact the type of residency you are eligible for in the future. I believe the Army & AF (not sure about Navy) keep a good ratio of folks in their fields by controlling slots that are open for the next cycle. So if there is a glut of people in surgery who decide they want to re-up and stay in after their contract is fulfilled, there will be less spots for that military residency. Same for radiology, derm or fill in the blank. When I was in, it seems like they never had enough Family Practice/PCP's. So (and this is secondhand information) that is what they tend to try and fill up first. In the several years I was in, I saw a doc one time. Check-ups and exams where I was stationed were always done by PA's because the others were always deployed. They were gone more than folks in any other career field with which I had contact. Depending on your point of view, there could be more cons than pros. There's probably a subforum somewhere on SDN that addresses more of the specifics you're looking for, because obviously I haven't had firsthand experience being a military doc.

Not trying to dissuade you, just think about your potential military obligation in a macro sense; what's going on in the world will affect you as a soldier/sailor/airman. It's a big deal to raise a family in the military. The wife and kids will essentially be signing on the dotted line with you.

 

[Radtad]

Thanks Rady,

I totally understand that once I sign on the dotted line I, and essentially my family, are military property. This has been one of the things which has caused concern and hesitance for me in making the descion to persue this path. I guess the reasons that I am even considering the militrary as an option is because I have always wanted to serve, I think it would give some great experience, and for the financial security during medical school. The HSPS scholarship will provide a monthly stipend, a sign on bonus, and health insurance for my entire family which means that I wont have to worry about how I am going to get the money to pay for my bills. I know I could do student loans but I am not sure if they would give me enough to pay for medical school and have enough money for a family of four to decently survive. I am also worried about my overall debt when I get out of school. I already have around 60k in student loans from my two degrees. I imagine that I would gain close to 300k or more (school dependant) if I were to rely soley on loans for medical school and supporting my family during the four years of medical school. I am just really uncertian about a lot of things and that was the reason for the post. As I stated above I belive by the time I had to repay my commitment my kids would be out of the house, but that doesnt mean that they still wouldnt need me around. I have also done some research and read that it is almost a garantee that I would be deployed, and like you said, as a physician I would be gone for an extended amount of time in comparision to others in the same unit. When I started my undergrad this has always been my plan since it seems as if it was the more stable option while my kids are under my roof, but the more I have been thinking about it I dont know if the pros do outweigh the cons as you had stated. Maybe someone who has gone through medical school while supporting a family could chime in and give me an idea of what it was like living off of loans. I am just worried about my decisions causing my family to endure some suffering, although it may not be a completely bad thing. I grew up without a lot of things that other kids had and I think that it made me appreciate things a little more. That being said, as a father it is hard for me not to want the best for my kids. I know this descision will be a sacrifice now reward later scenario and I am prepared for that. I guess I would just like a little piece of mind before I take the plunge that is if I get the option to take the plunge this year lol.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

OP, try looking around/posting in the military medicine forum for more info about the military http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/military-medicine.72/

I recall reading posts about people with families in medical school (I think topics like HPSP, food stamps, medicaid, etc were touched upon in them). Use the search function to find them.

If your AMCAS has been verified, you should wait for your new MCAT score before applying to more MD schools. If you plan to apply to DO schools but have not submitted AACOMAS, go ahead and submit it to one school just to have it verified as well. From what I have read on these forums, applications with pending MCATs are put on hold until new scores come in.

Each school has its own policy on how it views MCAT scores (https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/faq/313908/multiplescore.html). The FAQ sections of the medical school admissions websites will usually mention their policies. One thing to bear in mind though is that your app is very late for this cycle (your new score won't be in until October 15), hence your stats might not get you as far at this point as it would have early this cycle (or early next cycle).

 

[Rady Ruck]

Check out: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/military-medicine-pros-cons-and-opinions.277310/

It's older (2006), but many of the issues discussed are still rampant today. I didn't read past the first page due to time constraints, but one thing I personally remember hospital staff complain about was the whole chain of command structure (obviously vital to the armed forces). I briefly considered joining again but AFTER medical school (knock on wood) and residency, but to be second-guessed as a physician and swept aside just because someone held a higher rank would be horrendous. Well that, and the deployments would keep me away from my family too much. I wouldn't trade my prior service for anything. It is a big, proud part of who I am today, but that Rady Ruck was unattached and had no dependents to consider at first. Life got immeasurably harder after my family grew and I couldn't be there for everything.

An excerpt from the thread:
The instructors and people that were billeted to yell at us at OIS would always say that we were "An officer first, a doctor second." I always found this absolutely hilarious......let's see, what did I do to become a doctor? I spent hours and hours of blood, sweat and tears, lost sleep, stressed out, increased debt, etc. over a period of 8-10 years. What did I do to become a Naval Officer? I signed on a piece of paper and gave it to the recruiter - the whole thing took 10 minutes. Yeah right, I can see your point that I should value being an officer over being a doctor.

Also check out the White Coat Investor for financial advice geared toward physicians and physician-wannabes like us. Go the the First-Timers/Start Here page. I was introduced to it a few months back from another financial forum and it seems to have good information.

 

[Radtad]

whatbout2morrow,
I have done some searches in the military forum, mainly the HSPS sticky and a few others. I think I should probably post there and see if anybody that is or has been in a similar situation could give me some advice.
My AMCAS is verified since I applied to an early decision program without knowing my MCAT and now it is submited in thier regualar MD application. So from what you've heard they should put it on hold until my MCAT is availible? What does this do for my chances?
Their are several schools who's deadlines are the same day my MCAT is posted. I was planning on applying then. I might not have a clear understanding on how things work as far as the application process/deadline proceedures. So do schools start offering spots from the moment they accept applications or do they wait until the deadline and then sift through all of the applications and select for the most qualified canidates for secondaries, interviews, etc.?

Also why I should go ahead and submit my AACOMAS now without my updated MCAT since a lot of D.O. schools have much later deadlines? Is this to make it faster (no reprocessing) once my scores are updated?
Also, is there a reason not to give it a shot and apply to more MD anyways? Do schools frown on applicants that have applied more than one year? I know it asks on the AMCAS, I'm just courious. I again may not have a good understanding of this, but my reasoning is that if I apply I may have a chance whereas if I dont then I definitely have no chance.

Rady Ruck,
I have actually read most of that post and maybe I spent too much time on the pro's instead of the con's because it seems as if the pro's are what I remeber the most. I have always wanted to serve and I thought that I could go to medical school to become a doctor while also serving my country. This has been an area of uncertianty for me for some time and has increased as my dream has come closer to reality. It would be great to do both, but at what expense? I know I will have sacrificed a lot of time with my kids by going through medical school/residency, and then to have to leave on some tour or be stationed oversea's is just starting to not sound like such a great plan. I appreciate your questioning of my decision and I am definatley going to re-evaluate some things and look more closely at other options.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[whatbout2morrow]

whatbout2morrow,
I have done some searches in the military forum, mainly the HSPS sticky and a few others. I think I should probably post there and see if anybody that is or has been in a similar situation could give me some advice.
My AMCAS is verified since I applied to an early decision program without knowing my MCAT and now it is submited in thier regualar MD application. So from what you've heard they should put it on hold until my MCAT is availible? What does this do for my chances?
Their are several schools who's deadlines are the same day my MCAT is posted. I was planning on applying then. I might not have a clear understanding on how things work as far as the application process/deadline proceedures. So do schools start offering spots from the moment they accept applications or do they wait until the deadline and then sift through all of the applications and select for the most qualified canidates for secondaries, interviews, etc.?

Also why I should go ahead and submit my AACOMAS now without my updated MCAT since a lot of D.O. schools have much later deadlines? Is this to make it faster (no reprocessing) once my scores are updated?
Also, is there a reason not to give it a shot and apply to more MD anyways? Do schools frown on applicants that have applied more than one year? I know it asks on the AMCAS, I'm just courious. I again may not have a good understanding of this, but my reasoning is that if I apply I may have a chance whereas if I dont then I definitely have no chance.

It is my understanding that if you were to apply to more schools right now, your AMCAS will be submitted to the schools, but the respective schools would wait until your pending MCAT score is in before they consider your application. Most medical schools use a rolling admissions method, ie, they look at applications as they receive them, interview applicants throughout the cycle and the admissions committee meets and offers acceptances several times during the cycle. So, as the cycle progresses, the number of applications increases (due to people applying late, or taking the MCAT in the summer like yourself) whereas the number of available spots left decreases.

Yes, I recommended to submit the AACOMAS now if you plan to apply to DO schools so that your AACOMAS will be verified and ready to be submitted to schools for consideration when your new MCAT score comes in to avoid further delays in your application.

You have no benefit in submitting to more MD schools at this moment because your app would probably not be looked at until the new score is in anyway. You might was well find out what your score is and then proceed to apply in case your MCAT score ends up lower than you expected (in which case applying this cycle may end up being a waste of money). Different schools have different policies on reapplicants, these may be in the FAQ sections of medical school websites as well.

Also, be familiar with secondary deadlines, and if you intend on applying this cycle, I would visit the school-specific threads and start prewriting secondaries.

 

[Radtad]

It is my understanding that if you were to apply to more schools right now, your AMCAS will be submitted to the schools, but the respective schools would wait until your pending MCAT score is in before they consider your application. Most medical schools use a rolling admissions method, ie, they look at applications as they receive them, interview applicants throughout the cycle and the admissions committee meets and offers acceptances several times during the cycle. So, as the cycle progresses, the number of applications increases (due to people applying late, or taking the MCAT in the summer like yourself) whereas the number of available spots left decreases.

Yes, I recommended to submit the AACOMAS not if you plan to apply to DO schools so that your AACOMAS will be verified and ready to be submitted to schools for consideration when your new MCAT score comes in to avoid further delays in your application.

You have no benefit in submitting to more MD schools at this moment because your app would probably not be looked at until the new score is in anyway. You might was well find out what your score is and then proceed to apply in case your MCAT score ends up lower than you expected (in which case applying this cycle may end up being a waste of money). Different schools have different policies on reapplicants, these may be in the FAQ sections of medical school websites as well.

Also, be familiar with secondary deadlines, and if you intend on applying this cycle, I would visit the school-specific threads and start prewriting secondaries.

It all makes sense. Thanks for the clearing things up for me.