This is why the profession is going down the tube

Started by BMBiology
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BMBiology

temporarily banned~!
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(1) Pharmacy schools: sure there's a saturation but as long as the federal government keeps on guaranteeing those student loans, we will continue to make a killing. Don't worry students, clinical pharmacy will save us all. The government will finally reimburse us for our clinical services pretty soon! Sure, we have been saying that for the last 30 years but it will happen students. You guys will be making bank. So to accommodate for this future need for pharmacists, we are going to add another 20 seats to our lecture hall = $$$

(2) ACPE: we have to give new schools accreditation or we are going to get sued. Sure, we can raise our standards but that would mean fewer schools will apply for accreditation and therefore, less money for us

(3) NAPLEX/MPJE: hey I know we are a joke but we are making a ton of money now because pharmacists have to be licensed in multiple states due to the saturation

(4) Pre pharmacy students: all of these pharmacists are whiner! They have it so good! What? My friend who has a 2.4 GPA just got accepted to multiple pharmacy schools? All I have to do is borrow 300 k and I can one day work as a pharmacist? I don't care if I just make 70 k a year and have to pay 60 k in student loans. That's a lot better than being unemployed! I am not going to worry about student loans because I am pretty sure the government will one day forgive them. A doctorate degree baby! You will respect me. Where do I sign up??!

(5) 1st year pharmacy students: I know it's tough but hey, I am a top student with a great personality. I just have to extra work hard. That's all it takes. Harding work = success in my book! I will be one of the lucky ones. Besides, who knows what's going to happen 3 or 4 years from now?

(6) 4th year pharmacy students: OMG, I have just checked my student loan balance! 300 k with 6.8% and 7.9% interest! Where is my CVS offer!? I have been kissing butts and no offer yet!! = /

(7) Pharmacists: yeah, I have 300 k in student loans and benefits/pay have been cut but hey, what can I do? I just wanted to do part-time and never wanted pharmacy to be a career anyways. And where's that restroom key so this stupid mom can stop bothering me and I can work in peace!

(8) Residents: I am doing a residency so I will get that job everybody wants. What? I have to do 2 years of residency now or work at Kmart? Thank god there's IBR! I don't care about the compounding interest and I will end up paying more on student loans. I will do a 2 year residency! I am a unicorn! Love me

(9) CVS: pay back is a b*tch! Yeah, we had to keep some of you horrible pharmacists and pay you overtime because of the shortage. But now, we hold the cards and we know Sallie Mae will be your best friend for 30 years. No more guaranteed hours for the new grads. Just 30 hours max! No more benefits like vacation time, holiday pay, 401 k matching for the first year. You want some time off to visit grandma?! Do it on your own time! We all know you won't survive the first year anyways so what's the point? Rural America is where you will be. Take it or leave it!
 
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"I just wanted to do part-time and never wanted Pharmacy to be a career anyway" Then why in the hell would you go to pharmacy school to pursue this career? All you do is bash pharmacy, which actually has one of the lowest unemployment rates and one of the highest job satisfaction rates.
 
Look, I know what I am posting is not nice but they are true. Our profession has been declining since 2008 and it's going to get worse. This hurts everyone including myself since I am a pharmacist.

I am helping two of my pharmacist friends who are clinically depressed because they can't find a full time job and have a mountain of student loan. That's the harsh reality some of you will have to face.
 
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(1) Pharmacy schools: sure there's a saturation but as long as the federal government keeps on guaranteeing those student loans, we will continue to make a killing. Don't worry students, clinical pharmacy will save us all. The government will finally reimburse us for our clinical services pretty soon! Sure, we have been saying that for the last 30 years but it will happen students. You guys will be making bank. So to accommodate for this future need for pharmacists, we are going to add another 20 seats to our lecture hall = $$$

(2) ACPE: we have to give new schools accreditation or we are going to get sued. Sure, we can raise our standards but that would mean fewer schools will apply for accreditation and therefore, less money for us

(3) NAPLEX/MPJE: hey I know we are a joke but we are making a ton of money now because pharmacists have to be licensed in multiple states due to the saturation

(4) Pre pharmacy students: all of these pharmacists are whiner! They have it so good! What? My friend who has a 2.4 GPA just got accepted to multiple pharmacy schools? All I have to do is borrow 300 k and I can one day work as a pharmacist? I don't care if I just make 70 k a year and have to pay 60 k in student loans. That's a lot better than being unemployed! I am not going to worry about student loans because I am pretty sure the government will one day forgive them. A doctorate degree baby! You will respect me. Where do I sign up??!

(5) 1st year pharmacy students: I know it's tough but hey, I am a top student with a great personality. I just have to extra work hard. That's all it takes. Harding work = success in my book! I will be one of the lucky ones. Besides, who knows what's going to happen 3 or 4 years from now?

(6) 4th year pharmacy students: OMG, I have just checked my student loan balance! 300 k with 6.8% and 7.9% interest! Where is my CVS offer!? I have been kissing butts and no offer yet!! = /

(7) Pharmacists: yeah, I have 300 k in student loans and benefits/pay have been cut but hey, what can I do? I just wanted to do part-time and never wanted pharmacy to be a career anyways. And where's that restroom key so this stupid mom can stop bothering me and I can work in peace!

(8) Residents: I am doing a residency so I will get that job everybody wants. What? I have to do 2 years of residency now or work at Kmart? Thank god there's IBR! I don't care about the compounding interest and I will end up paying more on student loans. I will do a 2 year residency! I am a unicorn! Love me

(9) CVS: pay back is a b*tch! Yeah, we had to keep some of you horrible pharmacists and pay you overtime because of the shortage. But now, we hold the cards and we know Sallie Mae will be your best friend for 30 years. No more guaranteed hours for the new grads. Just 30 hours max! No more benefits like vacation time, holiday pay, 401 k matching for the first year. You want some time off to visit grandma?! Do it on your own time! We all know you won't survive the first year anyways so what's the point? Rural America is where you will be. Take it or leave it!

Harrowing
 
Cool story bro. All you do is every post is bash the pharmacy profession. Ban this asshat.

No need to ban him. Some of his points are valid. I just wished he would be a true lobbyist for the profession instead of wasting his time and energy on SDN boards.
 
BMBiology, you are doing good work spreading the word about the realities of pharmacy today. It's kinda scary how many people think going to pharmacy school will get them a good income and job security. I 100% agree with you on point 1. Pharmacy schools and higher education in general need to be cut off from the cash cow called student loans. It's not just pharmacy schools that are over-producing graduates way above the need in the market. I personally believe students in all higher education institutions should be required to maintain at least a 3.0 to qualify for student loans. That is the only way we can weed out people who think they can party their way through college and then still get a diploma and a job just for knowing how to spell their name. That way they will still end up flipping burgers at McDonalds, just without the monster student loan to pay off. Also the schools themselves should be required to live up to some decent educational standards.
 
You forgot (10) First year pharmacy students who will end up with no debt and will actually make money during their time in pharmacy school.
 
(1) Pharmacy schools: sure there's a saturation but as long as the federal government keeps on guaranteeing those student loans, we will continue to make a killing. Don't worry students, clinical pharmacy will save us all. The government will finally reimburse us for our clinical services pretty soon! Sure, we have been saying that for the last 30 years but it will happen students. You guys will be making bank. So to accommodate for this future need for pharmacists, we are going to add another 20 seats to our lecture hall = $$$

(2) ACPE: we have to give new schools accreditation or we are going to get sued. Sure, we can raise our standards but that would mean fewer schools will apply for accreditation and therefore, less money for us

(3) NAPLEX/MPJE: hey I know we are a joke but we are making a ton of money now because pharmacists have to be licensed in multiple states due to the saturation

(4) Pre pharmacy students: all of these pharmacists are whiner! They have it so good! What? My friend who has a 2.4 GPA just got accepted to multiple pharmacy schools? All I have to do is borrow 300 k and I can one day work as a pharmacist? I don't care if I just make 70 k a year and have to pay 60 k in student loans. That's a lot better than being unemployed! I am not going to worry about student loans because I am pretty sure the government will one day forgive them. A doctorate degree baby! You will respect me. Where do I sign up??!

(5) 1st year pharmacy students: I know it's tough but hey, I am a top student with a great personality. I just have to extra work hard. That's all it takes. Harding work = success in my book! I will be one of the lucky ones. Besides, who knows what's going to happen 3 or 4 years from now?

(6) 4th year pharmacy students: OMG, I have just checked my student loan balance! 300 k with 6.8% and 7.9% interest! Where is my CVS offer!? I have been kissing butts and no offer yet!! = /

(7) Pharmacists: yeah, I have 300 k in student loans and benefits/pay have been cut but hey, what can I do? I just wanted to do part-time and never wanted pharmacy to be a career anyways. And where's that restroom key so this stupid mom can stop bothering me and I can work in peace!

(8) Residents: I am doing a residency so I will get that job everybody wants. What? I have to do 2 years of residency now or work at Kmart? Thank god there's IBR! I don't care about the compounding interest and I will end up paying more on student loans. I will do a 2 year residency! I am a unicorn! Love me

(9) CVS: pay back is a b*tch! Yeah, we had to keep some of you horrible pharmacists and pay you overtime because of the shortage. But now, we hold the cards and we know Sallie Mae will be your best friend for 30 years. No more guaranteed hours for the new grads. Just 30 hours max! No more benefits like vacation time, holiday pay, 401 k matching for the first year. You want some time off to visit grandma?! Do it on your own time! We all know you won't survive the first year anyways so what's the point? Rural America is where you will be. Take it or leave it!

Have you talked to some recent dental grads? 500K in debt trying to piece together part-time work or moving to Maine. And making under 200K. And the jobs they get as associates also give no benefits. Honestly, everyone on this entire website says that their profession is going down the tubes--Pathologists, Dentists, Radiologists, Pharmacists, Anesthesiologists, etc... It seems like every single person of any aforementioned profession says "don't go into this." Whatever.

It's the economy, stupid. :laugh:
 
Have you talked to some recent dental grads? 500K in debt trying to piece together part-time work or moving to Maine. And making under 200K. And the jobs they get as associates also give no benefits. Honestly, everyone on this entire website says that their profession is going down the tubes--Pathologists, Dentists, Radiologists, Pharmacists, Anesthesiologists, etc... It seems like every single person of any aforementioned profession says "don't go into this." Whatever.

It's the economy, stupid. :laugh:

Idk... every gas and rad doctor I know that comes to my pharmacy brag they make not less than 350k and 500k, respectively. Maybe, they took 50k paycut and think the sky is falling.

the economy??? LOL...
 
Idk... every gas and rad doctor I know that comes to my pharmacy brag they make not less than 350k and 500k, respectively. Maybe, they took 50k paycut and think the sky is falling.

the economy??? LOL...

They're probably partners. New grads do get anything like that. New rads are having a lot of trouble getting work now. And gas is set to decline in income b/c of CRNAs. Check out the gas forums--there are plenty of gloom and doomers on there, just as there are here.
 
They're probably partners. New grads do get anything like that. New rads are having a lot of trouble getting work now. And gas is set to decline in income b/c of CRNAs. Check out the gas forums--there are plenty of gloom and doomers on there, just as there are here.

At least the gloom and doomers have less distance to fall when they don't get hired, the eternal optimists are going to be in for one helluva shock. :laugh:
 
The work is there if you look hard enough and make an effort. I'm tired of people waiting on CVS and Walgreens to hand them an offer. Go out and find work yourself or make your own path. The work is there.
 
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Very well said!

Might have known it was a pre-pharmer. I hate to think what things will be like when you finally qualify. Things are changing faster than you can say "not another new pharmacy school opening up". 🙂
 
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The work is there if you look hard enough and make an effort. I'm tired of people waiting on CVS and Walgreens to hand them an offer. Go out and find work yourself or make your own path. The work is there.

Agree. I currently have two offers for full time positions with benefits.
 
Pharmacy students are the whiniest bunch of people on the planet. Oh no, god forbid you actually have to have experience to get a job and look good on a resume! Oh no you might have to work in rural America before moving up to your dream job! OH MY GOD!

Time to grow up guys.
 
Might have known it was a pre-pharmer. I hate to think what things will be like when you finally qualify. Things are changing faster than you can say "not another new pharmacy school opening up". 🙂

Hey, thanks for worrying about us pre-pharms 😀 We really do appreciate it. 👍 Also, thanks for letting us know, everyday, that the profession is in decline.
 
Pharmacy students are the whiniest bunch of people on the planet. Oh no, god forbid you actually have to have experience to get a job and look good on a resume! Oh no you might have to work in rural America before moving up to your dream job! OH MY GOD!

Time to grow up guys.

I definitely agree with this and the other user that said it is the same group of people posting the same stuff. Trolls??

I am so done with SDN for now. I'm out!!
 
Hey, thanks for worrying about us pre-pharms 😀 We really do appreciate it. 👍 Also, thanks for letting us know, everyday, that the profession is in decline.

And thanks for letting us know that pharmacy is wonderful when you haven't even set foot in pharmacy school yet.:beat:
 
And thanks for letting us know that pharmacy is wonderful when you haven't even set foot in pharmacy school yet.:beat:

Yes, keep beating that dead horse! Not sure why you hate your profession so much...must have been burned a time or two to become this angry.
 
"There are five public universities and one private university in Texas offering similar pharmacy programs, White said.

The need for this program has not been voiced by current University students, but by the local workforce, she said. Fifty-eight percent of pharmacists being hired in Texas annually are educated out-of-state, she said.

There is a high turnover rate, she said, because those pharmacists want to return home after a few years.

"There is a huge need for pharmacists in East Texas," White said."
 
Not sure why you hate your profession so much.

Wait until you have worked a few years of 12 hour shifts with no lunch breaks, getting scowled at if you need to take a leak, having an off day when you are not feeling that great (as everyone does now and again) and still being expected to work like a machine just like on a normal day, no slack in the system, getting bitched at by staff and customers through no fault of your own but due to shortage of staff, replace care, care, care with the word targets, targets, targets. That is my biggest gripe really, caring for patients has been replaced by corporate tasks.

I suppose if the American dream is to make money no matter the cost, then I don't buy into the American dream 🙁
 
Wait until you have worked a few years of 12 hour shifts with no lunch breaks, getting scowled at if you need to take a leak, having an off day when you are not feeling that great (as everyone does now and again) and still being expected to work like a machine just like on a normal day, no slack in the system, getting bitched at by staff and customers through no fault of your own but due to shortage of staff, replace care, care, care with the word targets, targets, targets. That is my biggest gripe really, caring for patients has been replaced by corporate tasks.

I suppose if the American dream is to make money no matter the cost, then I don't buy into the American dream 🙁

Apparently you have never served in the military.
 
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Sounds like every job I had to work through undergrad or during summers except without the pay or benefits. Woe is me.

So you don't get a lunch hour in McDonalds?

And is it possible to make professional decisions when the phone is constantly ringing off the hook and you MUST answer it within three rings along with all the other BS piled on top of you? You do not need a doctorate degree for what, in effect, is a clerks job.
 
Might have known it was a pre-pharmer. I hate to think what things will be like when you finally qualify. Things are changing faster than you can say "not another new pharmacy school opening up". 🙂

There's really no point in arguing with them. I post just as an FYI for those who have options. Those who are applying today do not have many options. Just read the pre-pharmacy forum. It's something like this:

"I am 27 year old and it has been a dream of mine to become a pharmacist. I got lazy and got 2.3 GPA but I did not give up and applied anyways. I can't believe that I got accepted to 3 pharmacy schools! It must have been my great personal statement".

The well qualified candidates have abandoned pharmacy school and the admissions standards have dropped. This was posted by another member:

http://www.husson.edu/assets/husson-admissions-pharmacy-admissionsdata-2013-16.docx

c/o 2014 when compared to c/o 2016:

(1) Total applicant pool: 645 to 423 (almost a 33% drop in applicants)
(2) Bachelor degree or higher: 42% to 10%
(3) PCAT score: 52% to 34% (someone with a 6% even got accepted)
(4) GPA: 3.47 to 3.3 (If this is the GPA of those who got admitted then expect the class GPA to be even lower)

Only 10% have a bachelor degree? Did they do their pre-reqs at a community college or 4 year university?

Guess who is ultimately paying for the saturation and low admissions standards? The new grads who worked hard in undergrad and pharmacy school and did everything they were supposed to do.
 
Idk... every gas and rad doctor I know that comes to my pharmacy brag they make not less than 350k and 500k, respectively. Maybe, they took 50k paycut and think the sky is falling.

the economy??? LOL...

So, why do they tell you this? I would never think to ask a customer what their salary is, no matter what they do for a living.

As for the job market in general, I know someone who just went on her third interview. She applied for a job as a cashier at Best Buy.
 
It's funny how the optimists here make all those assumptions about people who actually want to talk about the saturation problem rather than putting their heads in the sand and hoping it goes away. I'd be very happy to work in a rural area. It would fit with my lifestyle. A $80-$90 K income would be satisfactory to me. I'd be able to pay off my loans off and have everything I need. However, if the current trends continue, this will no longer be possible in the near future. The job interview process is starting to look more like a flock of horny peacocks trying to impress the few females who pretend like they are not even paying attention. You can't just straight out say, these are my skills and accomplishments, take it or leave it. Just the thought of having to go through that farce over the next year (I'm a P4) makes me nauseous.
 
There's really no point in arguing with them. I post just as an FYI for those who have options. Those who are applying today do not have many options. Just read the pre-pharmacy forum. It's something like this:

"I am 27 year old and it has been a dream of mine to become a pharmacist. I got lazy and got 2.3 GPA but I did not give up and applied anyways. I can't believe that I got accepted to 3 pharmacy schools! It must have been my great personal statement".

The well qualified candidates have abandoned pharmacy school and the admissions standards have dropped. This was posted by another member:

http://www.husson.edu/assets/husson-admissions-pharmacy-admissionsdata-2013-16.docx

c/o 2014 when compared to c/o 2016:

(1) Total applicant pool: 645 to 423 (almost a 33% drop in applicants)
(2) Bachelor degree or higher: 42% to 10%
(3) PCAT score: 52% to 34% (someone with a 6% even got accepted)
(4) GPA: 3.47 to 3.3 (If this is the GPA of those who got admitted then expect the class GPA to be even lower)

Only 10% have a bachelor degree? Did they do their pre-reqs at a community college or 4 year university?

Guess who is ultimately paying for the saturation and low admissions standards? The new grads who worked hard in undergrad and pharmacy school and did everything they were supposed to do.

I don't generally agree with you, but I do agree with you on this (though, to be fair, Husson is a fairly new program, and thus would likely see the biggest drops in qualified applicants).
 
I don't generally agree with you, but I do agree with you on this (though, to be fair, Husson is a fairly new program, and thus would likely see the biggest drops in qualified applicants).

I would argue the drop is the same or more at well established schools since they tend to get more qualified applicants.
 
Have you talked to some recent dental grads? 500K in debt trying to piece together part-time work or moving to Maine. And making under 200K. And the jobs they get as associates also give no benefits. Honestly, everyone on this entire website says that their profession is going down the tubes--Pathologists, Dentists, Radiologists, Pharmacists, Anesthesiologists, etc... It seems like every single person of any aforementioned profession says "don't go into this." Whatever.

It's the economy, stupid. :laugh:

Engineering and PA are the way to go. There is much higher demand in those fields, but of course they are very different from pharmacy.
 
So you don't get a lunch hour in McDonalds?

And is it possible to make professional decisions when the phone is constantly ringing off the hook and you MUST answer it within three rings along with all the other BS piled on top of you? You do not need a doctorate degree for what, in effect, is a clerks job.

I don't know what they get in McDonalds considering that wasn't my part time job, but good job making asinine assumptions about it. At all the jobs I've been at the most I've ever gotten was an unpaid 30 minute lunch, that I sat around for since I don't get hungry during the day. And I'm sure that's all there is to it too it. Seriously some of the things some of you cry about. You got into a retail job and expect them to cater to you, it's retail.

Edit: And one of you mentioned Engineering, boy if you think that isn't saturated you're in for a rude awakening.
 
Since the number of inpatient positions appears to be dwindling even further, my current job makes me feel like I got in just under the wire. :scared:

After leaving overnight retail pharmacy, I am thankful for:
1. restricted pharmacy access
2. the employee restroom
3. the chair that I get to work from
4. pneumatic tube stations
5. technicians​
 
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The crux of the problem is that pharmacists are too expensive a commodity for corporate America to afford. All the bean counters and managers want to keep all of the money to themselves. If they come up with a way to circumvent the regulations that require a pharmacist to be present in a pharmacy, trust me, they would have security frog march us out of the store with our arms up our backs in jig time.

The unfortunate thing is, is that it is us pharmacists who have worked hard to provide excellent service to patients and customers, who have gone that extra mile and who, by really caring, have actually made and built pharmacy as a business over many decades that are now getting the rug pulled from under them by spotty faced business graduates, who in effect, know jack **** about the profession of pharmacy.

The other problem is that most pre-pharmers are under the impression that some sort of advanced surgery goes on in the dispensary. 🙂
 
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The crux of the problem is that pharmacists are too expensive a commodity for corporate America to afford. All the bean counters and managers want to keep all the money to themselves. If they come up with a way to circumvent the regulations that require a pharmacist to be present in a pharmacy, trust me, they would have security frog march us out of the store with our arms up our backs in jig time.

The unfortunate thing is that it is us pharmacists who have worked hard to provide excellent service to patients and customers, who have gone that extra mile and who by really caring have actually made and built pharmacy as a business over many decades that are now getting the rug pulled from under them by spotty faced business graduates who in effect know jack **** about the profession of pharmacy.

The other problem is that most pre-pharmers are under the impression that some sort of advanced surgery goes on in the dispensary. 🙂

Yep, ask how many people making close to or over $60.00 per hour feel the tug being pulled out from under them.
 
The hyperbole in this thread (and others) is amusing.

Some of you just regurgitate what you hear on TV or read in the newspaper. Didn't you ever learn in grade school how to discern between biased and unbiased information?

As OT states, you cannot predict the future.

I think what you're seeing in hospitals (and what I saw in my hospital and two others in my state) is the anticipation of losing money because, suddenly, they have to prove how effective and efficient they are by reporting their outcomes. Patients will now have the knowledge and power to choose their provider based on publicly available patient reported outcomes and patient satisfaction survey results. Whether the PRO surveys are (currently) valid and reliable is another story but they are certainly a start...hopefully institutions are using the validated methods/surveys of capturing their data, as it would be more beneficial to them anyway.

The transition to a preventive care focused health care system is long overdue and will experience growing pains, as many people (patients and practitioners alike) are unfamiliar, and sometimes uncomfortable, with that approach.

Yes, preventive care is a two way street; however, until fairly recently, the health care system hasn't been adept at providing patients with the tools they need to effectively manage their disease states. As practitioners, we sometimes take for granted how much more we know and understand about health. If you look at the literature, and I hope you do, the best outcomes (therapeutic and quality of life) come from integrated care that incorporates behavior modification, self-efficacy, and social support. With that said, prescriptions make up 20% of our health care expenditures while hospital costs make up 30%. At the very least, it would be nice to reverse those percentages, especially since we know many of the therapies work, most notably for some of the disease states that cost us the most (and are part of the 30 day readmission reimbursement limitation-- CHF, MI, DM).

Other countries have long done these things and the focus on preventive care strategies other than pharmaceutical approaches is evident in their outcomes. It's time we follow suit especially since our populace is so much more unhealthy compared to them.

It will be an interesting ride alright.

You guys might want to look at it from a different perspective and a more positive one. Right now, we are being handed some power to make a true difference in cost and outcomes. Literature shows that effective pharmaceutical approaches and pharmacist interventions, whether therapeutic or safety, reduce costs. Be a part of the solution! Show your worth!

And quit whining about getting paid $53/hour instead of $55 right out of school. The money is in the outcomes in more ways than one. Wake up and take advantage of that.