Thoracic surgery

[esth0001]

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Why this year only 104 people applied for thoracic surgery fellowship and 100 got in? so, almost everybody that applied got in. what's wrong with it? so, it should be a piece of cake to get into thoracic surgery. No competition

 

[Dire Straits]

do a little search on this forum and you'll see several threads related to this very topic. the main reason is basically that there are very few jobs out there for graduating ct surgeons. and of the few jobs there are most are offering less than what a general surgeon would make (some even offering less than what a family doctor makes if you can believe that). so of course less people are willing to invest 2-3 extra years of their professional life in a gruelling fellowship only to come out of it with no job in the specialty, or to come out and compete for one of the few jobs for relatively low pay.

 

[esth0001]

do a little search on this forum and you'll see several threads related to this very topic. the main reason is basically that there are very few jobs out there for graduating ct surgeons. and of the few jobs there are most are offering less than what a general surgeon would make (some even offering less than what a family doctor makes if you can believe that). so of course less people are willing to invest 2-3 extra years of their professional life in a gruelling fellowship only to come out of it with no job in the specialty, or to come out and compete for one of the few jobs for relatively low pay.

Are you kidding?

 

[geekgirl]

do a little search on this forum and you'll see several threads related to this very topic. the main reason is basically that there are very few jobs out there for graduating ct surgeons. and of the few jobs there are most are offering less than what a general surgeon would make (some even offering less than what a family doctor makes if you can believe that). so of course less people are willing to invest 2-3 extra years of their professional life in a gruelling fellowship only to come out of it with no job in the specialty, or to come out and compete for one of the few jobs for relatively low pay.

first - this thread is "thoracic", not cardiothoracic, right? and right now, the lungs are nobodies turf war.

and secondly, i don't think the lungs, or the heart, are gonna be taken over by any other specialty in the near future. cardiology has infringed on the turf of the cardio part of ct somewhat. but valves are still valves. and they need replacement.

perhaps i'm biased from those i know, but no ct surgeon (or ct fellow) that i know is concerned about their livelihood. or paycheck. they're rock solid right now.

 

[Dire Straits]

first - this thread is "thoracic", not cardiothoracic, right? and right now, the lungs are nobodies turf war.

and secondly, i don't think the lungs, or the heart, are gonna be taken over by any other specialty in the near future. cardiology has infringed on the turf of the cardio part of ct somewhat. but valves are still valves. and they need replacement.

perhaps i'm biased from those i know, but no ct surgeon (or ct fellow) that i know is concerned about their livelihood. or paycheck. they're rock solid right now.

no they are far from being "rock solid". read the discussion forum on www.ctsnet.org and then tell us how concerned they are. there are few jobs in ct surgery nowadays for new surgeons, and the ones that are available pay comparitively low. and more and more ct surgeons are figuring out that thoracic is the way to go, so you guessed it, even general thoracic jobs are slowly becoming harder to find. and yes, cardiologists are slowly also beginning to encroach on the area of valve replacement.

 

[MSc44]

no they are far from being "rock solid". read the discussion forum on www.ctsnet.org and then tell us how concerned they are. there are few jobs in ct surgery nowadays for new surgeons, and the ones that are available pay comparitively low. and more and more ct surgeons are figuring out that thoracic is the way to go, so you guessed it, even general thoracic jobs are slowly becoming harder to find. and yes, cardiologists are slowly also beginning to encroach on the area of valve replacement.

Im sorry but i dont buy this My father is A cardiothoracic intensive care physician on long island at a MAJOR university hospital, from what he tells me this is not the case at all, .......and are some of you saying that cardiologists are digging in on valve replacements???????? I have never heard such a thing, at least here in NY

 

[blue2000]

Im sorry but i dont buy this My father is A cardiothoracic intensive care physician on long island at a MAJOR university hospital, from what he tells me this is not the case at all, .......and are some of you saying that cardiologists are digging in on valve replacements???????? I have never heard such a thing, at least here in NY

It's not the valves that are the issue. The issue is that 15 year ago, CT surgeons were filling their surgical schedules with bypasses on single or double vessel disease in relatively healthy 40 and 50 year olds. Now, because of stents, those cases don't exist, and the only CABGs being done are those on sicker, older patients with more co-morbidities and terrible cardiac disease.

I'm not an insider on the CT job market, so I'm not sure what exactly to make about the job market stuff, but there has definitely been a shift in patient population and surgical procedures compared to the mid 80s/early 90s.

 

[Dire Straits]

Im sorry but i dont buy this My father is A cardiothoracic intensive care physician on long island at a MAJOR university hospital, from what he tells me this is not the case at all, .......and are some of you saying that cardiologists are digging in on valve replacements???????? I have never heard such a thing, at least here in NY

oh ok because daddy told you so. and he's not even a ct surgeon 🙄

here's what actual cardiothoracic surgeons have to say about the current state of the speciality and lack of jobs:

http://www.ctsnet.org/sections/newsandviews/inmyopinion/articles/article-54.html

http://www.ctsnet.org/sections/newsandviews/inmyopinion/articles/article-7.html

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=662&tstart=15

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=688&tstart=0

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=859&tstart=0

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=1436&tstart=0

valves:
http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=827&tstart=0

 

[MSc44]

oh ok because daddy told you so. and he's not even a ct surgeon 🙄

here's what actual cardiothoracic surgeons have to say about the current state of the speciality and lack of jobs:

http://www.ctsnet.org/sections/newsandviews/inmyopinion/articles/article-54.html

http://www.ctsnet.org/sections/newsandviews/inmyopinion/articles/article-7.html

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=662&tstart=15

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=688&tstart=0

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=859&tstart=0

http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=1436&tstart=0

valves:
http://forums.ctsnet.org/ctsnet/thread.jspa?threadID=827&tstart=0

not trying to start a pissing match here, but maybe it has to do with location. Its one thing to read articles and believe be skewed by then. its anoyher to see first hand that many of the top cardiac hospitals in lower NY are doing 12-18 open hearts a day. Lot of new CT surgeons comming into these groups, but then again like i said maybe its just what i have seen here NY . bottom line if u wanna go into CT surgery donty let articles make decisions for you. And the salary comment about them making less then family docs, i also found that crazy, maybe cause of what ive been exposed too........hey if u wanna do CT surgery come to lower NY, i have not run into one of then that is not racking it in, but cant speak for other areas

 

[MSc44]

not trying to start a pissing match here, but maybe it has to do with location. Its one thing to read articles and believe be skewed by then. its anoyher to see first hand that many of the top cardiac hospitals in lower NY are doing 12-18 open hearts a day. Lot of new CT surgeons comming into these groups, but then again like i said maybe its just what i have seen here NY . bottom line if u wanna go into CT surgery donty let articles make decisions for you. And the salary comment about them making less then family docs, i also found that crazy, maybe cause of what ive been exposed too........hey if u wanna do CT surgery come to lower NY, i have not run into one of then that is not racking it in, but cant speak for other areas

sorry for my spellling.........wrote that one in a rush 🙂

 

[geekgirl]

not trying to start a pissing match here, but maybe it has to do with location. Its one thing to read articles and believe be skewed by then. its anoyher to see first hand that many of the top cardiac hospitals in lower NY are doing 12-18 open hearts a day. Lot of new CT surgeons comming into these groups, but then again like i said maybe its just what i have seen here NY . bottom line if u wanna go into CT surgery donty let articles make decisions for you. And the salary comment about them making less then family docs, i also found that crazy, maybe cause of what ive been exposed too........hey if u wanna do CT surgery come to lower NY, i have not run into one of then that is not racking it in, but cant speak for other areas

agreed. all pissing matches aside. my father is a cardiothoracic surgeon (i've been trying to avoid that since to me my opinion is independent and stand alone, but in terms of experience he and his buddies know a shi!tload more than we do). and he's still practicing in a university hospital, although not in a big city. and neither he, nor any of his fellows has difficulty finding or anticipating work.

i, too, am trying to avoid outright conflict, but i do find it entertaining to pick his brain about things we students/residents discuss ad infinitum, gossip-like. cause the old dudes have seen the fields change, mature, morph, and cross-fertilize. and things always change.

and to this day cutting-and-pasting (i.e. surgery) is still distinct from all medical fields. what we do as cutters and pasters may become different, but we will always have a distinct and complementary role to medical docs, even those doing more interventional studies. just because a field is changing doesn't mean it's dying. medical roles are in constant flux, but i think it's a dance rather than a mere survival of the fittest (or best reimbursed). but as a prospective whatever, you do have to see if you would be happy in the direction your field is moving. that, for sure, is important.

but hey, maybe that's just me.

 

[Dire Straits]

i like how you two are going by what daddy has to say instead of the facts presented by many cardiothoracic surgeons and fellows.

 

[geekgirl]

i like how you two are going by what daddy has to say instead of the facts presented by many cardiothoracic surgeons and fellows.

my dear, in our case, the daddies are the cardiothoracic surgeons. and the others i've discussed this with are their friends (other CT surgeon) and their fellows.
but forget it, i knew this would be a dead-end avenue of discussion. just got sucked into commenting in a moment of weakness. take it how you will.

 

[Leukocyte]

We are talking about the NEW/YOUNG generation of CT surgeons. We are not talking about the "old timers". We are talking about the current job market. How many new job opening are there for new/young CT surgeons?

And about lung cases, well I have seen General Surgeons performing these as well (You do not have to be a CT surgeon to do Lung cases).

 

[njbmd]

We are talking about the NEW/YOUNG generation of CT surgeons. We are not talking about the "old timers". We are talking about the current job market. How many new job opening are there for new/young CT surgeons?

And about lung cases, well I have seen General Surgeons performing these as well (You do not have to be a CT surgeon to do Lung cases).

Hi there,
Simple lung cases like VATS and the like can fall under the practice of General Surgeons especially in places like smaller VAs and the like. Cases like lung transplants and sleeve resections are done by Thoracic surgeons who have completed a Cardiothoracic fellowship. These are not simple cases and are not under the practice of General Surgeons.

The current job market for newly minted CT surgeons is tight but I have two very good friends who finished CT fellowship this past June and had excellent jobs lined up. It depends on the area of the country and your connections. Like everything else, CT surgery demand goes in cycles. Right now the cycle is toward a tighter job market but this can change very quickly.

If you love CT surgery and you complete a good fellowship, you will find job offers out there. Do not choose a specialty based on what you perceive the job market to be but rather choose a specialty that you enjoy and can be good at. Good CT surgeons are much in demand and I do not see the rates of lung cancer going downhill at this point.

njbmd 🙂

 

[Dire Straits]

It depends on the area of the country and your connections. Like everything else, CT surgery demand goes in cycles. Right now the cycle is toward a tighter job market but this can change very quickly.

sorry njbmd, but there is no cycle as far as adult ct surgery goes. most people agree that cardiologists will take over more and more of the ischemic heart disease market with better and better angio. they've already taken over a lot of it and that is why ct surgeons are making less money because coronary bypass is their main meal ticket. so if cardiologists can do something safer, less-invasive, and just as effective than a ct surgeon they aren't going to refer patients for surgery unless the ischemia is too complicated for angio. not only that but cardiologists are also encroaching on the valve market too. you take away most of the bypass and valve work and you've basically taken away most of the work a ct surgeon does. sure there are still heart transplants, heart failure surgery/LVADs, and valve repair surgery but there is not enough work in that for the ct surgeons out there and all the new ct surgeons coming out each year. and as you know a fair share of the general thoracic work can be also done by general surgeons. all this translates into less work and need for ct surgeons.

 

[MSc44]

i like how you two are going by what daddy has to say instead of the facts presented by many cardiothoracic surgeons and fellows.

The fact that my father is a cardiothoracic intensive care physician was only brought up because some of his closest friends are CT surgeons. I have obtained what i expressed from them first hand. Ct surgery is comming out with many new cutteng edge ways to do hearts, such as robatic surgery, laser surgery, BIVADS, and some new type of artificial implant whichjust passed clinical trials, not to mention the old crack'in your chest deal, and all the other procedures. Although some GS can do lungs im sure this is most likely the exception in some rural areas rather then the rule.........would you want someone working on your lungs if they were not doing it day in and day out.......this is why i dont believe everything i read on websites