Thought experiment: Step 1 becomes new MCAT

[965978]

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@ClamShell was pretty much right.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I just did a napkin calculation, and the total amount we reimburse for biomedical science instructors during years 1 and 2 comes out to just over 0.4% of our total operating budget.

Tim Cook’s salary is less than one percent of Apple’s value, though, so what is this statistic telling us?

 

[Med Ed]

Tim Cook’s salary is less than one percent of Apple’s value, though, so what is this statistic telling us?

That cutting out M1/M2 biomedical science instruction will not result in significant cost savings (see post #31).

 

[Med Ed]

View attachment 260736

A broken clock, as they say... 😉

 

[965978]

Tim Cook’s salary is less than one percent of Apple’s value, though, so what is this statistic telling us?

But apple doesn’t spend $1,200 making an iPhone and then sell it for $1,000.

Medical schools spend more than tuition.

 

[965978]

A broken clock, as they say... 😉

ADCOMS here are so savage. Is it like a superpower or something?

 

[RNthenDoc]

But apple doesn’t spend $1,200 making an iPhone and then sell it for $1,000.

Medical schools spend more than tuition.

And Apple spends WAY more than manufacturing costs (R&D, marketing, aforementioned salaries). I think you’re getting lost in the analogy.

The argument is that even though only a small portion of the overall bill is going towards something, that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be cut.

If you disagree, I hope you remember that in the realm of politics (wherein folks are constantly complaining about CEO salaries even though they make up just a small percent of expenses!).

 

[Rogue42]

What you posted has nothing to do with creating a primary care shortage. You have no idea how the process works. We don't have a shortage, we have a distribution problem, hence why NPs are able to push legislators to expand their practice scope under the pretense of "we will fill the shortage!" (hint: they don't practice in needed areas any more than doctors do).

You may call it what you will. Go to an area without primary care physicians, and the people of that area will tell you they have a shortage of physicians not a distribution problem; further, there is no doubt that the numbers show that the workforce of physicians is - and is foretasted to be - way outweighed by the population age and growth. If you want to dispute that I encourage to go read just one of the hundreds of peer reviewed articles on the subject.

Second, if accepting more and more hyper-intelligent students that want to specialize to boost school stats and increase board scores does NOT also add in any aspect to the "physician distribution" issue that we are having, I would love to hear what is. Because, I also mentioned the pay compared to the cost and interest of medical school, but according to you, nothing that I said has anything to do with creating this issue nor do I have any idea what is going on. Gosh, I sure hope medical school teaches me something!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Go to an area without primary care physicians, and the people of that area will tell you they have a shortage of physicians not a distribution problem; further, there is no doubt that the numbers show that the workforce of physicians is - and is foretasted to be - way outweighed by the population age and growth. If you want to dispute that I encourage to go read just one of the hundreds of peer reviewed articles on the subject.

None of this changes the fact it is not a shortage, the problem is distribution. Many places have over-saturation. In fact, I'll admit that yes there are specific fields that really do have a shortage but they aren't the ones you would think, ie vascular surgery. However, as a whole? We have a distribution problem, not a shortage problem.

Second, if accepting more and more hyper-intelligent students that want to specialize to boost school stats and increase board scores does NOT also add in any aspect to the "physician distribution" issue that we are having, I would love to hear what is.

Because, I also mentioned the pay compared to the cost and interest of medical school, but according to you, nothing that I said has anything to do with creating this issue nor do I have any idea what is going on.

Ok, to highlight how you have no idea how this works let's analyze this quote you made before

WHY go into primary care and make some of the least amount of pay when you can pick a specialty and make 3 times more? Especially since medical school prices have skyrocketed and interest rates are so high. They wouldn’t and do not; which now creates a primary care shortage and thus a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Medical schools have exactly nothing to do with how many physicians are created in any given year. None. Zero. They could admit a million people tomorrow and the number of new BE/BC physicians created in this country per year wouldn't change. Residency is what produces physicians. There are the same number of PC physicians created every year completely regardless of how many "hyper-intelligent students that want to specialize" there are as these residency spots by and large get filled on a yearly basis.

In short, you are completely wrong. Letting in more students with low stats isn't going to help one iota with anything you have pointed out, sorry. I didn't see what your stats were before you edited your post but if you are borderline stat wise instead of trying to complain that it's unfair the "hyper intelligent people with high stats" have preference maybe you should work on building a better app.

 

[efle]

I just did a napkin calculation, and the total amount we reimburse for biomedical science instructors during years 1 and 2 comes out to just over 0.4% of our total operating budget.

Wow, yikes. But all the resources I used in preclinical pretty much amount to 1) some classroom space for small groups, 2) the faculty leading those small groups, and 3) two white coats and a stethy.

Where the hell is it all going? Does keeping the clinical years up to LCME standards really cost $100,000+ per capita (their tuition + mine)?

 

[Med Ed]

Wow, yikes. But all the resources I used in preclinical pretty much amount to 1) some classroom space for small groups, 2) the faculty leading those small groups, and 3) two white coats and a stethy.

Whether you realized it or not, at various points along the road you utilized the admissions office, the financial aid office, academic affairs, student affairs, the assessment/evaluation office, the anatomy lab, information technology, the library, numerous software systems, accounting, legal, HR, and all the associated faculty, administrators, support staff, and equipment that comes with those offices/departments/divisions. Without all those components, a medical school in this day and age cannot fulfill its basic functions.

 

[Goro]

Whether you realized it or not, at various points along the road you utilized the admissions office, the financial aid office, academic affairs, student affairs, the assessment/evaluation office, the anatomy lab, information technology, the library, numerous software systems, accounting, legal, HR, and all the associated faculty, administrators, support staff, and equipment that comes with those offices/departments/divisions. Without all those components, a medical school in this day and age cannot fulfill its basic functions.

You made me realize with this sage post that in this thread (and that dumpster fire of a thread on the preclinical years) that people were suffering from a particular malady. It has a name:

tun·nel vi·sion
/ˈtənl ˌviZHn/
noun

1. defective sight in which objects cannot be properly seen if not close to the center of the field of view.
   • INFORMAL
     the tendency to focus exclusively on a single or limited goal or point of view.
     "she has tunnel vision in all matters of opinion and morality"

 

[efle]

Whether you realized it or not, at various points along the road you utilized the admissions office, the financial aid office, academic affairs, student affairs, the assessment/evaluation office, the anatomy lab, information technology, the library, numerous software systems, accounting, legal, HR, and all the associated faculty, administrators, support staff, and equipment that comes with those offices/departments/divisions. Without all those components, a medical school in this day and age cannot fulfill its basic functions.

Pretty funny to think that at smaller med schools, there's probably more people supporting the infrastructure than there are medical students.

Also what do universities use their multibillion endowments for, if not their infrastructure and employee salaries? Does it all just get reinvested?

 

[Goro]

Also what do universities use their multibillion endowments for, if not their infrastructure and employee salaries? Does it all just get reinvested?

That's pretty much my understanding of what they use it for.

Also, it's used for student support. Where do you think that scholarship money comes from?

 

[efle]

That's pretty much my understanding of what they use it for.

Also, it's used for student support. Where do you think that scholarship money comes from?

Mine comes from the class of 198X as do most of my peers, really it's that they not only charge us instead of using endowment, they rope in the alumni to spare their endowment funds too.

 

[docj8496]

edited