Thoughts about equine therapy

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smalltownpsych

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I have a great opportunity to provide some of my patients with an opportunity to interact with horses since one of my interns has a farm and horses. I completely believe in therapeutic benefits of said activity, but also have strong feelings about making therapeutic activities into the equivalent or superior to the evidence-based psychotherapy that we provide. I don’t think I should market it as equine therapy, but what about people referring to it as such anyway? should I worry about that? Or maybe I should just embrace the idea and call it equine therapy and not worry about it so much and just worry about pricing, insurance, marketing, and logistics. I wouldn’t do the “therapy”, but if my intern was helping patients deal with anxiety and practicing emotional regulation skills while doing stuff with horses should we call that therapy? Just wondering what your thoughts are on all this. I know members of this board tend to be more stringent about things like this than what I run into out in the real world so appreciate the feedback.

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I have a great opportunity to provide some of my patients with an opportunity to interact with horses since one of my interns has a farm and horses. I completely believe in therapeutic benefits of said activity, but also have strong feelings about making therapeutic activities into the equivalent or superior to the evidence-based psychotherapy that we provide. I don’t think I should market it as equine therapy, but what about people referring to it as such anyway? should I worry about that? Or maybe I should just embrace the idea and call it equine therapy and not worry about it so much and just worry about pricing, insurance, marketing, and logistics. I wouldn’t do the “therapy”, but if my intern was helping patients deal with anxiety and practicing emotional regulation skills while doing stuff with horses should we call that therapy? Just wondering what your thoughts are on all this. I know members of this board tend to be more stringent about things like this than what I run into out in the real world so appreciate the feedback.
I have lots of thoughts on this but I think I need to organize them, lol.

One thing that I think is crucial is for currently practicing psychologists (and academics) to always keep in mind that the same types of mental barriers (and schema) that created resistance for this field when we were evolving from the mainly psychoanalytic or purely applied behavior paradigms, say, circa the 1950s - 1970s (ish) were the same types of barriers at play when Aaron Beck and others were 'bucking' the established paradigms of the time to 'revolutionize' the field by bringing attention to what has now come to be the dominant paradigm in the field--namely--the primacy of cognition/beliefs (the 'integrative power of cognitive therapy' as they say) and the tripartite model of the importance of recognizing patterns of thinking/feeling/behaving that constitutes the theoretical 'backbone' of our so-called 'evidence-based' approaches to psychotherapy in the form of structured protocol-for-syndrome approaches. The very epitome of 'science' these days in clinical psychology.

When I was in grad school 25+ years ago, I encountered these barriers in a very real (and viscerally threatening) way when I was faced with a nuanced threat to my career if, say, I continued along a line of research having to do with the paradoxical effects of thought suppression (and psychopathology) which also was embedded in a larger 'mindfulness' context. The doctrinaire clinical faculty reflexively recoiled at what they (by only superficially encountering it) considered to be a 'psychodynamic' ('yucky') paradigm and advised me to find another topic to research if I wanted to graduate (basically). So I did my dissertation in a completely different topic area. Meanwhile, in the years since, 'mindfulness' has become a dominant paradigm within the field and is quite scientifically respectable these days and the understanding that things (once widely practiced) like 'thought-stopping' are now passe and that attempting to effortfully 'suppress' one's unwanted thoughts is not such a good idea.

I say all this to say that I think a lot of us (myself included) are under the delusion that we have somehow reached 'peak truth' in the current day and fail to appreciate that this is exactly what the folks in the 60s/70s (who championed the 'old dogs' of psychoanalysis/ pure behavior therapy) and the folks in the 80s/90s (in grad school who said 'mindfulness' is fluffy gobbledygoop) believed when *they* resisted the natural development of the field into new theoretical territories and paradigms.

Regarding equine therapy (or service/ emotional-support dogs) front, I think it is reasonable to believe (based on my experiences with clients) that there is *something* going on there that is scientifically intriguing and can (and should) be investigated carefully using the appropriate methods and due caution. I'm thinking that there are components of recent research/theorizing in areas such as interpersonal neurobiology and polyvagal theory that could serve as 'starting points' to begin research into these areas that this research can be done responsibly (vs. what much of the current 'service dog' research represents [the recent VA service dog study didn't even have a 'no dog' control arm or even keep track of (let alone covary or control for) concurrent evidence-based treatment for PTSD for God's sake]).

In the meantime, you could get on the whole (I love the 'catch-phrases') 'measurement-based care (MBC)' train and simply give your clients pre-, mid-, and post- equine treatment questionnaires (symptom self-report, of course) and explore whether symptom reduction occurs over time with your treatment. That should shut at least some critics up (especially those with the most superficial understanding of such things).

Edit: If any critics do show up, you could always don a 'I [heart] Measurement Based Care!!!' t-shirt and offer them free shirts and coffee mugs or something.

That's all I have for now but I think this is a great topic for discussion.
 
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It’s not therapy. It’s just something people like, and attach the word “therapy” to.
 
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I tend to take a broader view on the term therapy, especially when it’s offered in conjunction to primary treatment elements like med management and evidence-based psychotherapy and done with intention and care.

When this is offered as the only/primary recovery option, I become more skeptical.

As well as when something is just thrown together half-assed (think rec therapy where the rec therapist is playing an active role in helping to process emotions versus putting people in a room with crayons and coloring books for 45 mins and leaving).

Overall, I think one of the biggest benefits of things like equine or rec therapy is getting people more engaged with working on/experiencing their mental health, which doesn’t happen exclusively through meds and/or psychotherapy for many people. Or isn’t happening organically in more traditional forms of treatment.

But some of these people may be open to something like exposure through horses or art or something else, which can then be built upon in talk therapy so having it be on the table as a case by case decision process makes sense to me.
 
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I tend to take a broader view on the term therapy, especially when it’s offered in conjunction to primary treatment elements like med management and evidence-based psychotherapy and done with intention and care.

When this is offered as the only/primary recovery option, I become more skeptical.

As well as when something is just thrown together half-assed (think rec therapy where the rec therapist is playing an active role in helping to process emotions versus putting people in a room with crayons and coloring books for 45 mins and leaving).

Overall, I think one of the biggest benefits of things like equine or rec therapy is getting people more engaged with working on/experiencing their mental health, which doesn’t happen exclusively through meds and/or psychotherapy for many people. Or isn’t happening organically in more traditional forms of treatment.

But some of these people may be open to something like exposure through horses or art or something else, which can then be built upon in talk therapy so having it be on the table as a case by case decision process makes sense to me.
Agreed.

I tell myself that it should be clear WHAT I am claiming to offer AS MEDICAL TREATMENT vs. what I might suggest (or agree with) in terms of self-initiated behavior change that may--though not treatment, per se--be reasonably expected to be beneficial for the patient but is NOT something that I am initiating, providing, or 'prescribing' as a 'treatment' per se.

Depressed patients would benefit from exercise, a breakup of their depressive daily routines, and behavioral activation (as well as a little sunshine and vitamin D). If in the course of our therapy session, a patient decides to take up gardening and scheduling 30 mins of gardening three times per week, then this is consistent with a 'behavioral activation' process that may--as a process--constitute components of cognitive behavioral treatment for depression. As a therapist, I may suggest behavioral activation as a component (even, dare I say, an 'evidence-based' component) of psychotherapy for that condition. However, the choice to garden is the patient's. So, for instance, if the patient lived in a neighborhood whose HOA prohibited gardening, I would NOT write a letter 'prescribing' gardening as a 'medically necessary' intervention for their medical condition and, thereby, attempt to compel (intimidate?) the HOA into ignoring their rules and making an exception for the patient. The key treatment component is behavioral activation and could just as easily be implemented should the patient take up walking or woodworking or yoga.

This is why, for the veterans I see in therapy, I will NOT put anything in writing with any language to the effect that I am 'prescribing' a dog for any purpose or that anything is due to 'medical necessity.' If a local service (that trains service dogs) requires some 'paperwork' from a provider--since I don't wish to be a *barrier* to a veteran pursuing this avenue--then I will fill out the paperwork (including such info as diagnosis, how long he has been a client, etc.). Some of the answers I explicitly refuse to answer and clearly state why I refuse to answer them (e.g., 'I certify that this patient does not have a mental health condition that would impair his ability to properly care for a dog' or 'this patient is not taking any medications that would impair his ability to take care of a dog'). I have no problem *providing information* (that I can, in fact, straightforwardly provide) however state explicitly in writing that 'I am not prescribing an animal to treat/manage any condition' and I 'am not asserting it's 'medical necessity' (these are, apparently, the two components of the legal act of 'prescribing a service-/emotional support animal'). I generally ignore their little 'questionnaire' that they've typed up (complete with their own invented phrases and Likert scales for me to rate agreement with THEIR chosen phraseology and their 'checkboxes' or 'yes/no' horsecrap). Instead, I write my own letter explicitly saying what I AM SAYING, what I AM NOT SAYING, and my basis for SAYING or NOT SAYING certain things with reference to professional ethics, research, etc. pertaining to the practice of professional psychology.

I basically answer the questions (as to facts) and say that the veteran believes that he may benefit from having the animal and that I do not wish to be a barrier to that process.

I also explain (to the veteran, not in the letter) the potential iatrogenic effects of having the service animal on utilization of cognitive-behavioral techniques and processes generally found to be effective in treating PTSD according to the medical literature (i.e., exposure and cognitive restructuring)--mainly in the form of possibly serving as a barrier to full engagement in the CPT/PE protocols (but all of the veterans asking for this documentation and, on their own, pursuing a service dog through this process have already refused these protocols).
 
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How much can I charge mostly middle aged men to provide Scotch and Video Game therapy?
Hehe, not too much because they can come by their video games and scotch pretty easy. Horses…they got to pay for the farm. Some of the challenge is that I am working with patients that can benefit greatly from a variety of activities and have no problem engaging in drinking and video games, but that hasn’t seemed to be as beneficial to their mental health. 😉

It’s not therapy. It’s just something people like, and attach the word “therapy” to.
I don’t think that attaching therapy to any therapeutic activity is a good thing and my intent is to help people with more severe mental health issues engage in a potentially very therapeutic activity. Having a therapist facilitate it makes sense because these kids are pretty fragile.

I didn’t intend to call it equine therapy at all, but people are going to call it that anyway just because it’s a popular term. Wondering how much I should fight that and also how I could brand it to be more ethical yet still capture the essence of what I am trying to accomplish.

Also, just in case you were thinking about it Wisneuro, I probably don’t want middle-aged men drinking scotch and then getting on the horses. Might be a bit of a liability issue. Only video games for them. 😂
 
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Hehe, not too much because they can come by their video games and scotch pretty easy. Horses…they got to pay for the farm. Some of the challenge is that I am working with patients that can benefit greatly from a variety of activities and have no problem engaging in drinking and video games, but that hasn’t seemed to be as beneficial to their mental health. 😉


I don’t think that attaching therapy to any therapeutic activity is a good thing and my intent is to help people with more severe mental health issues engage in a potentially very therapeutic activity. Having a therapist facilitate it makes sense because these kids are pretty fragile.

I didn’t intend to call it equine therapy at all, but people are going to call it that anyway just because it’s a popular term. Wondering how much I should fight that and also how I could brand it to be more ethical yet still capture the essence of what I am trying to accomplish.

Also, just in case you were thinking about it Wisneuro, I probably don’t want middle-aged men drinking scotch and then getting on the horses. Might be a bit of a liability issue. Only video games for them. 😂
Is there empirical evidence that working with horses improves diagnostic criteria and function? If not, it’s just something people like.

Wisneuro isn’t wrong. I feel great while playing video games and drinking (not) scotch. I’m also much more grumpy and much more obsessive afterwards. It’s not therapy. And it’s much much much cheaper than a horse.
 
Is there well-controlled empirical evidence that working with horses improves diagnostic criteria and function? If not, it’s just something people like.
fixed it
There are numerous uncontrolled or poorly-controlled trials.

Applicable to this thread:


If people finish the video (or watch the entire video), it gets sadder.
 
I completely believe in therapeutic benefits of said activity,
This is the most important part. Belief based on what? Faith? Anecdotal experience? I am sure you see what I am getting it. Completely believe is such a strong statement. I rarely have such strong convictions when it comes to anything in mental health treatment.

I am sure that having a peacock emotional support animal (this is not a joke but an actual news story), trampolines, drum circles, dolphin play, art therapy, and equine therapy can help to someone at sometime. But does it help because of the reasons that the promoters state (what are the hypothetical therapeutic mechanisms)? Or are there more effective methods to address those mechanisms in a treatment that is more applicable to a larger group of people that also doesn't come off as BS? I am sure there can be something mindful about riding horses, or some social connection with horses or people at horse farms, or that one is getting out of a rut and committing to a new activity. However, all those potential mechanisms can be achieved in other ways (e.g., mindfulness practice, behavioral activation). I think it would be much more effective to figure out what you are trying to target, explain that to the person you are working with, and then find an activity (maybe horses, maybe chopping wood, who the f knows) and match the person with the activity they are most likely to be successful doing.

It always seems to me that its the providers who are pushing equine therapy rather than clients that want it.
 
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These various kinds of activities make me think of behavioral activation.

It would be fun to start a D&D campaign where the players initially roleplay the person they want to be in the world. We can create smart goals and do activity monitoring/planning for what's feasible. I'll bring the snacks!

Yes, I am almost always the healer in every RPG I play.
 
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Yes, I am almost always the healer in every RPG I play.
Best class in any RPG, fight me (and I'll heal the party).

As to the actual question, this can get hairy when you have people with uncontrolled behavioral issues around horses--even well-trained horses spook fairly easily, so I tend to be really iffy about this with, say, kids with externalizing behavior.
 
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Horses - some people really like them. My wife has a degree animal reproduction and did all of her research on them.

Horses are also dangerous - we used to have them at the "ranch" (it's pretty small comparatively only 40 acres). My dad once broke his jaw on a horse - and he grew up around them on their 2k acre sheep ranch and montana and farm in idaho. My dad sold the horses after I watched him get bucked 6 times in an hour after they'd been at pasture all winter. I've been bit, chased, bucked, and kicked by horses - even the most broken and easy ones.

Horse people are fanatics and have a very biased view of them. They are dumb prey animals that will spook over the dumbest things - even the most well trained ones. I would not send a patient anywhere near an interns horse. You both are asking for trouble in addition to privacy concerns, etc.

But also, horses - connecting with an animal, creating a symbiotic relationship, understanding them, having to brush, feed, saddle, etc. is a tremendous responsibility that more people should get experience with. But, it's not therapy, not really evidence based, but so are many activities that lead to an enriched life.
 
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Hehe, not too much because they can come by their video games and scotch pretty easy. Horses…they got to pay for the farm. Some of the challenge is that I am working with patients that can benefit greatly from a variety of activities and have no problem engaging in drinking and video games, but that hasn’t seemed to be as beneficial to their mental health. 😉

You greatly underestimate how much people will pay a lot for things that they can generally easily acquire for far less (e.g., bottled water) if marketed correctly. I just have to curate the drinks, games, and ambiance and throw in some neurojargon to make it sound therapeutic.
 
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You greatly underestimate how much people will pay a lot for things that they can generally easily acquire for far less (e.g., bottled water) if marketed correctly. I just have to curate the drinks, games, and ambiance and throw in some neurojargon to make it sound therapeutic.

Counterpoint: Horse-girls
 
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Counterpoint: Horse-girls
Are you kidding--equestrian stuff is the primary example of this! Slap the word "equestrian" in front of anything and the price at least triples with no difference in quality! (Fun fact: I did a tiny bit of competitive show riding in high school and actually have a winner's belt buckle from a major rodeo as a result).
 
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Counterpoint: Horse-girls
I am very much acquainted with the archetype. Grew up in the sticks doing farmwork, even helped break and train a few horses along the way. As mentioned, these people will drop large sums of money on stuff for little to no reason. Throw a brand name on an English saddle, triple it's price from a mainstream competitor, and the dressage crowd will eat it up. I also spent a good amount of time at 4H events :)
 
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I am very much acquainted with the archetype. Grew up in the sticks doing farmwork, even helped break and train a few horses along the way. As mentioned, these people will drop large sums of money on stuff for little to no reason. Throw a brand name on an English saddle, triple it's price from a mainstream competitor, and the dressage crowd will eat it up. I also spent a good amount of time at 4H events :)
I married a horse girl…
 
This is the most important part. Belief based on what? Faith? Anecdotal experience? I am sure you see what I am getting it. Completely believe is such a strong statement. I rarely have such strong convictions when it comes to anything in mental health treatment.

I am sure that having a peacock emotional support animal (this is not a joke but an actual news story), trampolines, drum circles, dolphin play, art therapy, and equine therapy can help to someone at sometime. But does it help because of the reasons that the promoters state (what are the hypothetical therapeutic mechanisms)? Or are there more effective methods to address those mechanisms in a treatment that is more applicable to a larger group of people that also doesn't come off as BS? I am sure there can be something mindful about riding horses, or some social connection with horses or people at horse farms, or that one is getting out of a rut and committing to a new activity. However, all those potential mechanisms can be achieved in other ways (e.g., mindfulness practice, behavioral activation). I think it would be much more effective to figure out what you are trying to target, explain that to the person you are working with, and then find an activity (maybe horses, maybe chopping wood, who the f knows) and match the person with the activity they are most likely to be successful doing.

It always seems to me that its the providers who are pushing equine therapy rather than clients that want it.
When I said I believe In therapeutic benefits, I just meant engaging in pleasurable activities being beneficial. Just getting people outdoors and active is beneficial. I also am not saying that horses is any more beneficial than other activities. Just that some people really really like them and that if I can offer that activity for patients, why not?
 
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When I said I believe In therapeutic benefits, I just meant engaging in pleasurable activities being beneficial. Just getting people outdoors and active is beneficial. I also am not saying that horses is any more beneficial than other activities. Just that some people really really like them and that if I can offer that activity for patients, why not?
Totally agree with this. I also think that there is 'something else' that may have to do with being in the presence of another mammal that cannot specifically scheme to intentionally manipulate/deceive you and that there may even be some 'co-regulation' between the nervous systems (of the patient and the dog, or the patient and the horse) during certain interactions that signal 'safety' (or the absence of threat) and that perhaps there is something particularly reinforcing/anxiolytic for the patient about being in the 'safe' presence of and interacting with another mammal (that they can 'trust' is not going to plant a knife in their back or run a socially manipulative game on them). I think this 'effect' would be particularly amplified to the extent that: (a) the person has a severe trauma history (and history of being betrayed/hurt) and/or has 'assimilated stuck points' surrounding safety, trust, intimacy, power/control, and esteem (the CPT stuff). It makes evolutionary sense (especially if an organism has just witnessed interpersonal carnage (murder, rape, etc.), say, visited by a warring tribe from over the hill) that, in the aftermath of such experiences, being around another mammal (especially if that mammal is sending signals of 'safety'/calm) would be an inherently reinforcing experience (as opposed to, say, being around a bunch of strange people, or hostile people, or irritated people (say, at Walmart, lol); and also be amplified by (b) their recent history of deprivation with regard to social interaction. I think it's plausible to speculate that something like this is occurring that may account for the *extra* thing that is happening (and that some trauma patients find reinforcing) with regard to the whole 'service/emotional support dog' phenomenon above and beyond the behavioral activation component.

We should remember that 'science' isn't just about reciting and implementing what we think we know from already established lines of research and hypothesis testing; it's also about 'the context of discovery' and speculating about what we still fail to capture adequately with our current scientific theories/models/practices and trying to figure out how to critically examine these speculations through some measure of controlled research. It starts with, I think, what smalltownpsych is doing and noticing a 'hunch' or a feeling that *something* is going on here...there is some phenomenon that may need to be explained and then doing successively refined research (but, of course, critical research...i.e., utilizing such principles as 'strong inference' and actually trying to prove yourself wrong and seeing if your hypothesis survives vigorous attempts at refutation and, if it does, at that point it might be said to be 'corroborated' (but not 'proven'). Of course, to paraphrase Carl Sagan (and maybe he stole the line, too, I dunno): "It's critical to keep an open mind...but not so open that your brains fall out." This balance between 'conservative' reluctance to amend/alter/question the dominant paradigm and the courage/curiosity to ask (and attempt to answer) new questions that could possibly extend that paradigm is, I believe, the essence of scientific practice.
 
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Are you kidding--equestrian stuff is the primary example of this! Slap the word "equestrian" in front of anything and the price at least triples with no difference in quality! (Fun fact: I did a tiny bit of competitive show riding in high school and actually have a winner's belt buckle from a major rodeo as a result).
I meant to highlight the discordance between how crazy horse girls are, and the perception that horses are somehow promoting mental health.
 
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I have a great opportunity to provide some of my patients with an opportunity to interact with horses since one of my interns has a farm and horses. I completely believe in therapeutic benefits of said activity, but also have strong feelings about making therapeutic activities into the equivalent or superior to the evidence-based psychotherapy that we provide. I don’t think I should market it as equine therapy, but what about people referring to it as such anyway? should I worry about that? Or maybe I should just embrace the idea and call it equine therapy and not worry about it so much and just worry about pricing, insurance, marketing, and logistics. I wouldn’t do the “therapy”, but if my intern was helping patients deal with anxiety and practicing emotional regulation skills while doing stuff with horses should we call that therapy? Just wondering what your thoughts are on all this. I know members of this board tend to be more stringent about things like this than what I run into out in the real world so appreciate the feedback.
It sounds like a legal nightmare. If a patient gets injured, do you think your malpractice will cover? Is this in your scope of practice? Would her homeowners? How would you explain to them why patients were at the farm? How would that play into protecting patient privacy? What about if you or the intern are injured - this makes the farm a workplace. It's a workers comp case. Say goodbye to your preferred treatment providers and systems.

Look, there's liability everywhere, but I wouldn't mess with this in the early stages of a new program.
 
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It sounds like a legal nightmare. If a patient gets injured, do you think your malpractice will cover? Is this in your scope of practice? Would her homeowners? How would you explain to them why patients were at the farm? How would that play into protecting patient privacy? What about if you or the intern are injured - this makes the farm a workplace. It's a workers comp case. Say goodbye to your preferred treatment providers and systems.

Look, there's liability everywhere, but I wouldn't mess with this in the early stages of a new program.
Some very excellent points. Liability is definitely a consideration and wisdom of messing with it in early stages is a good one. If there was any involvement with it now, it would be more of a case by case basis and I only have one in mind. Scope of practice and malpractice are good points and I guess if we didn’t call it equine therapy, especially since I’m not a fan of calling it that for the same reasons most posters have given, and just gave patients a chance to go take care of some horses and ride them then it would be similar liability to any business where people could get hurt. It could make for an interesting court case, thats for sure. If I do actually add this as part of a program, then it would be down the road and with close consultation with attorney.

Patient privacy is a good one to consider and my first thought is that anytime patients from a treatment place go somewhere and interact with the public that is an issue that is addressed. For this, since the farm would be working with us, I think there is some type of agreement or waiver that they would have to sign. Also the far is a working farm I believe so they probably have some type of insurance and they would have to check with their policy to see if it covered people paying to ride horses. Workmens comp, I’ll have to look at that and as far as preferred providers, I’m outside insurance so at least I don’t have to worry about them.

As I listen to the various perspectives, I think I see why so few treatment organizations have psychologists in leadership roles. Something we as a field should think about. I absolutely think we should be in leadership roles, but as I am thinking about this, I wouldn’t want to have to run my business decisions by the clinical team or I’d probably go bankrupt as we were unable to implement any new practices In an efficient manner. Not commenting on anybody here in particular and this is also based on being in a leadership role in a couple of treatment programs.

Last place I was at my boss, a psychiatrist, was at a point where he would just ignore the “ethical objections” regarding every treatment decisions from the therapists because they were paralyzing. Some of that was because they would say that anything they didn’t agree with was unethical and our ethical stuff is pretty broad so it was easy for them to go there. The worst was when they would argue that only optimal treatment was ethical and that they were the sole determinant of what was optimal. It’s not like we were talking about treatment either, it was more about questions like two classes in the semester or one class for the semester. Actual treatment delivery by the therapists was always determined by them since they were the ones delivering it. Sometimes I would question their treatment plan and they really didn’t like that, especially the ones who weren’t very good at it.
 
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100% agree with concerns laid out above. Holds especially true if you don't think this holds any specific value beyond behavioral activation, where there should be plenty of viable outlets one could pursue that (and finding ways to ensure activities are sustainable independent of therapy should be a core goal).

Substitute any other relevant business. If your intern owned an arcade, would patients get free tokens? What if your brother owned a go-kart track? Friend's hockey team could use a backup goalie? Cousin runs a boxing gym? I just worry mixing these two things is a recipe for disaster.

If someone expresses interest in horseback riding, I wouldn't hesitate to give referrals to a specific stable. I've built up databases of these sorts of things for patients that included similar arrangements. I think integrating it into "therapy" gets risky though. Equine therapy businesses exist, but I have no idea what the liability deal is for them. I'd look into that very, very carefully before integrating into your existing work.
 
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If someone expresses interest in horseback riding, I wouldn't hesitate to give referrals to a specific stable. I've built up databases of these sorts of things for patients that included similar arrangements. I think integrating it into "therapy" gets risky though. Equine therapy businesses exist, but I have no idea what the liability deal is for them. I'd look into that very, very carefully before integrating into your existing work.

Take it from those of us with relevant experience. People will sue over the most minor things, whether or not anything actually happened, if they think they can get at least a 5 figure payout. Also, personal injury lawyers know that malpractice carriers would prefer to settle rather than payout in many cases.
 
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MassHealth (state Medicaid) pays for equine therapy here. But most of the sessions are spent learning to build trust with the animal and learn how to care for the animal before any riding is started. Has been used with kids teens and others who need an approach different from office based services. I think the local equine therapy place has worked with folks with ID/DD as well. There is a professional organization for equine assisted “therapy” or whatever they refer to it as. Might be a resource for some of the questions/concerns you have.
 
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100% agree with concerns laid out above. Holds especially true if you don't think this holds any specific value beyond behavioral activation, where there should be plenty of viable outlets one could pursue that (and finding ways to ensure activities are sustainable independent of therapy should be a core goal).

Substitute any other relevant business. If your intern owned an arcade, would patients get free tokens? What if your brother owned a go-kart track? Friend's hockey team could use a backup goalie? Cousin runs a boxing gym? I just worry mixing these two things is a recipe for disaster.

If someone expresses interest in horseback riding, I wouldn't hesitate to give referrals to a specific stable. I've built up databases of these sorts of things for patients that included similar arrangements. I think integrating it into "therapy" gets risky though. Equine therapy businesses exist, but I have no idea what the liability deal is for them. I'd look into that very, very carefully before integrating into your existing work.
I should flag this as one one of the best answers. Really does make me think about why I would mix this activity as opposed to another activity.

It makes me think about another program that I was at quite a few years back. A big part of the program’s design was engagement in activities. Drama, music, art, sewing, equestrian, gardening, forestry, animal care, cooking. We never referred to these as art therapy or equine therapy or drama therapy. We called them vocational classes.

The more I think about this the more I think if I do go in this direction, the more I will lean toward activity and class as opposed to therapy. From that perspective, I don’t know if we really would need to research whether there can be benefit to engaging in enriching activities and learning new things. At the last program I worked at, we would suggest residents take an elective at the local college such as kayaking or Tai Chi, it’s not like we had to think about it that much.

From that perspective, there are ways of improving learning objectives and engagement in activities that I am sure are researched. Probably not too much specifically to a mental health population in treatment setting. When I would teach, I always encouraged students when they would ask questions about these things to do the research.

Final thought, if I create a residential program where residents were only allowed to participate in activities that were completely safe and solidly evidence-based. They would have to live in a psych ward getting medication. Couldn’t even have them in therapy groups since the evidence is mixed on that and there is definite risk of psychological harm. Improving functioning in a community setting is what I am trying to create and if there isn’t an element of risk, then patients won’t get better. Some of the risks I will have to deal with, and some of those already dealing with, are substance use and suicidality and eating disorders and psychosis. To be honest, those things keep me up at night a lot more than how to structure the equestrian activities.

Most of my patients have been in residential treatment for these problems and our goal is to not send them back despite the fact that they still have symptoms, relapses, and regressions. If i waited till they “got better” many of them would never get out. My patients are not better but we are not going to stop moving forward. Even as I am typing this it makes me think about how I am going to accept or deny patients who are coming out of programs to be in a supported aftercare independent living program that isn’t a program.
 
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I think some clarity on your circumstances (to the extent you are willing to share) may make a difference here.

Launching a therapeutic community ala Delancey Street has very different implications than stationing a pony in an outpatient clinic waiting room. It sounds like you are looking somewhere between those two, but I can't tell exactly where.
 
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Didn't Lilienfeld have an article that covered equine therapy?

Btw, I was a "horse girl" in grade and middle school. I wasn't great at riding, but man I had a collection of Breyers. And let me know if you ever want to discuss the Thoroughbred book series!
 
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I think some clarity on your circumstances (to the extent you are willing to share) may make a difference here.

Launching a therapeutic community ala Delancey Street has very different implications than stationing a pony in an outpatient clinic waiting room. It sounds like you are looking somewhere between those two, but I can't tell exactly where.
My dilemma exactly. Not sure what Delaney Street is but definitely was at a program that created a therapeutic community. Bridging the gap between typical outpatient clinic and more structured programs or settings is the direction I am heading. Although, I might go with the whole residential program if that is what makes sense.

in short, I have experience working in two different long term private pay residential programs. One for the more moderate cases and was less restrictive and was just for adolescents. The other was more comprehensive and we worked with more complex cases that had often failed at multiple settings, including settings such as my prior. My goal is to create my own program because I enjoyed both of these and saw a lot of benefits that they provided. I am not able to start an actual residential treatment program until next year because of non-compete clause. In the meantime, I have quite a few clients who have completed these types of programs and many of them from the last program I was at.

I am actually using my experience with outpatient to both fund and structure the development as I am also waiting to be able to market what I am going to be providing to people who are leaving these programs around the country. I can’t really market it yet, because of non-compete, but that’s ok because I’m still laying groundwork for it. The issue with the horses came up because my intern has a farm and current patient loves horses and I am worried about regression when spouse deploys and was brainstorming activities and connections to add to support. As I am also thinking down the road, that is where the thoughts of how do I bring some of these things together and do it in a way that is ethical, effective, and profitable.
 
Not sure what Delaney Street is
Probably the most widely known TC, though they're all over the place now. Delancey Street Foundation - Wikipedia

For those who aren't familiar its basically a "work rehab" program where residents can have very extended stays (think 2 years) for free. Provided with food/clothing/shelter and treatment in exchange for engaging in work programs (e.g., moving company, thrift store, etc.) run by said TC. They're often led by (and heavily staffed by) former residents with contracted clinical services and other things as needed, with maybe a few more professional staff. Usually for SUDs, though I think has been tried for SPMI.

I've made some attempts to get research projects going there, but haven't had any luck getting a road in with one that was functional for what I wanted to do. Definitely an interesting model and unique way of sustaining services for a population that often has very limited access. There are some obvious concerns though (retention, difficulty bridging back to "real world" settings, ethical/legal challenges).

In the present case, I would probably connect them and back out of the picture based on what you have laid out. Working behind the scenes to build a program is reasonable. There is an important line to draw between "business owner" and treating provider. At least to me, there is a big difference between exploring business opportunities in the mental health space versus integrating established patients into that opportunity as part of their established care. If you think it would be helpful for the patient to volunteer on a farm for a few hours a week, I don't see any issues with saying "Hey, I found a farm that actually needs volunteers" when done as part of a BA plan. More than that creates malpractice issues with an established patients. Launching a new TC? That's where it gets tricky...
 
Probably the most widely known TC, though they're all over the place now. Delancey Street Foundation - Wikipedia

For those who aren't familiar its basically a "work rehab" program where residents can have very extended stays (think 2 years) for free. Provided with food/clothing/shelter and treatment in exchange for engaging in work programs (e.g., moving company, thrift store, etc.) run by said TC. They're often led by (and heavily staffed by) former residents with contracted clinical services and other things as needed, with maybe a few more professional staff. Usually for SUDs, though I think has been tried for SPMI.

I've made some attempts to get research projects going there, but haven't had any luck getting a road in with one that was functional for what I wanted to do. Definitely an interesting model and unique way of sustaining services for a population that often has very limited access. There are some obvious concerns though (retention, difficulty bridging back to "real world" settings, ethical/legal challenges).

In the present case, I would probably connect them and back out of the picture based on what you have laid out. Working behind the scenes to build a program is reasonable. There is an important line to draw between "business owner" and treating provider. At least to me, there is a big difference between exploring business opportunities in the mental health space versus integrating established patients into that opportunity as part of their established care. If you think it would be helpful for the patient to volunteer on a farm for a few hours a week, I don't see any issues with saying "Hey, I found a farm that actually needs volunteers" when done as part of a BA plan. More than that creates malpractice issues with an established patients. Launching a new TC? That's where it gets tricky...
That’s about what I was thinking it is and knew of a TC in Wyoming that was along those lines. Some similarities but a little more challenging to use the peer worker model with SPMI as opposed to recovering substance users for a number of reasons.

As far as the equine stuff, I completely agree with where you landed on this and actually have a similar mindset. Am going to see if client can connect and utilize this resource and not form a business relationship. The thought process around how to go about this or other opportunities that could be of benefit, I also think of yoga or my wife’s personal favorite - taking care of cute little animals like goats and chickens, is helpful for me as I learn how to navigate the professional identity and role of a psychologist and treating provider as well as the role of businessman. I like the way you put that as I am already grappling with that early on in this enterprise.
 
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