Thoughts about taking on a leadership position

[imclarkent]

A little about myself, I’m about 3 years out from PGY1 residency. Within that short period of time, I was able to cross train in various units within the hospital, including renal, ortho, onc, cardiac med-surg units, intermediate medical icu, intermediate cardiovasc icu, peds and NICU. I have also done a few monographs, MUE, formulary recs and presented them to P&T. Obtained a clinical assistant professor appointment from a top 5 pharmacy school for precepting APPE students, got my BCPS and recently just took BCCP, pending results.

Our inpatient manager will be available in less than a month. A few of my coworkers - pharmacists and techs included - have approached me about applying for the position. I never thought I’d ever consider a leadership position, especially this early on in my career. I also still consider myself a new pharmacist with more room to grow clinically. I had plan to focus on honing my clinical skills for the first 5 years of my career and reassess year 6 for a leadership position.

Are there any relatively “new” pharmacists here that took on a inpatient pharmacy managerial position? What was the stress level? Learning curve? How was your leadership development? How did you know you were ready to take on a leadership role? I know management role is A LOT of work, I’m just assessing my readiness to tackle on that kind of work. I have seen how dedicated our manager was and it will really be hard to replace her or fill her shoes.

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[Rockinacoustic]

You seem very clinically focused versus operational- is this managerial position operational, clinical, or both? Is the current manager leaving because of retirement or because the position is a thankless dumpster fire?

 

[imclarkent]

You seem very clinically focused versus operational- is this managerial position operational, clinical, or both? Is the current manager leaving because of retirement or because the position is a thankless dumpster fire?

It’s operational managerial position. Current manager is a rockstar, very hardworking, day in day out, made sure everything in the pharmacy was functioning smoothly so manager is leaving us at a great spot. Manager is leaving for a better opportunity, relocating, probably for a higher pay as well.

 

[TheBlaah]

It’s operational managerial position. Current manager is a rockstar, very hardworking, day in day out, made sure everything in the pharmacy was functioning smoothly so manager is leaving us at a great spot. Manager is leaving for a better opportunity, relocating, probably for a higher pay as well.

Operations is usually responsible for technician duties, schedule/staffing issues, clean room USP, and problems that arise in the main pharmacy. It seems to diverge quite a bit from what you've been doing (training on the units, MUE, P&T, BCPS, ect).

Even in this thread, you state that you still wish to grow clinically. Unless I'm under the wrong impression in regards to this position, it seems like this opportunity is not in line with what you want. You'll basically be stagnating clinically if you take the position.

However, if you ARE interested in leadership positions, I recommend you apply for the position.

I don't work in such a role, but what I can tell you is that it will involve a lot of intra-departmental politics. You'll be the go-to person when a tech or pharmacist wishes to complain about a fellow co-worker. You'll have calming angry people down, comforting coworkers crying about a new event/policy/shift change, and disciplining employees who are out of line. This will be the case with this managerial position more than any other since the staff pharmacists/techs actually have to work alongside each other rather than floor pharmacists who work alone.

 

[deleted562805]

Operations is usually responsible for technician duties, schedule/staffing issues, clean room USP, and problems that arise in the main pharmacy. It seems to diverge quite a bit from what you've been doing (training on the units, MUE, P&T, BCPS, ect).

Even in this thread, you state that you still wish to grow clinically. Unless I'm under the wrong impression in regards to this position, it seems like this opportunity is not in line with what you want. You'll basically be stagnating clinically if you take the position.

However, if you ARE interested in leadership positions, I recommend you apply for the position.

I don't work in such a role, but what I can tell you is that it will involve a lot of intra-departmental politics. You'll be the go-to person when a tech or pharmacist wishes to complain about a fellow co-worker. You'll have calming angry people down, comforting coworkers crying about a new event/policy/shift change, and disciplining employees who are out of line. This will be the case with this managerial position more than any other since the staff pharmacists/techs actually have to work alongside each other rather than floor pharmacists who work alone.

Not to mention you make pertinent announcements during team huddles. And I think you work with the Chief Pharmacist, who is OP’s boss essentially.

I agree the previous poster. Your application to clinical knowledge will stagnate, but you can still keep with the information on your spare time.

 

[imclarkent]

Operations is usually responsible for technician duties, schedule/staffing issues, clean room USP, and problems that arise in the main pharmacy. It seems to diverge quite a bit from what you've been doing (training on the units, MUE, P&T, BCPS, ect).

Even in this thread, you state that you still wish to grow clinically. Unless I'm under the wrong impression in regards to this position, it seems like this opportunity is not in line with what you want. You'll basically be stagnating clinically if you take the position.

However, if you ARE interested in leadership positions, I recommend you apply for the position.

I don't work in such a role, but what I can tell you is that it will involve a lot of intra-departmental politics. You'll be the go-to person when a tech or pharmacist wishes to complain about a fellow co-worker. You'll have calming angry people down, comforting coworkers crying about a new event/policy/shift change, and disciplining employees who are out of line. This will be the case with this managerial position more than any other since the staff pharmacists/techs actually have to work alongside each other rather than floor pharmacists who work alone.

That’s what I’m afraid of - losing my clinical knowledge. It would be huge shift from what I’m doing now, but I guess I’m not certain if I should continue what I’m doing, or take this opportunity at hand while it’s available. I do agree though with all of the other responsibilities you’ve mentioned.. it starting to get daunting the more I think of it.

 

[imclarkent]

Not to mention you make pertinent announcements during team huddles. And I think you work with the Chief Pharmacist, who is OP’s boss essentially.

I agree the previous poster. Your application to clinical knowledge will stagnate, but you can still keep with the information on your spare time.

I don’t mind making announcements doing huddles. I am concerned though about losing clinical skills, especially because I’m still a relatively new pharmacist.

 

[Saiyo]

Pharmacy is one of those professions where the managers simply don't make that much more than staff as compared to other jobs.

As was stated in the other similar thread, this is why I am less and less interested in leadership roles. Many more expectations with not enough reward.
As much as I like a regular dayshift schedule. Considering shift differential as a staff, the potential raise from being a manager would just not be worth it.
Now, if its 8-5 and I'm sleeping in the office or teleworking, that would be worth considering.

 

[imclarkent]

As was stated in the other similar thread, this is why I am less and less interested in leadership roles. Many more expectations with not enough reward.
As much as I like a regular dayshift schedule. Considering shift differential as a staff, the potential raise from being a manager would just not be worth it.
Now, if its 8-5 and I'm sleeping in the office or teleworking, that would be worth considering.

Yeah that’s very true. I think initial pay raise would be about 25K more a year, now that I think of it, it will bump me up to the next tax bracket, and might pay more taxes in the long run.

 

[Momus]

Yeah that’s very true. I think initial pay raise would be about 25K more a year, now that I think of it, it will bump me up to the next tax bracket, and might pay more taxes in the long run.

Dude. No.



Everyone I know who said what you said always shorting themselves of so much money they could have pocketed because of simple misconception.

 

[footfairy]

Yeah that’s very true. I think initial pay raise would be about 25K more a year, now that I think of it, it will bump me up to the next tax bracket, and might pay more taxes in the long run.

That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!

Do yourself a favor and get real intimate with some basic level personal finance information, not a dissertation level deep dive, just a couple of hours on tax rates, retirement accounts, ect.

You only pay a higher tax rate on the income in the new bracket. I guess you technically do pay more taxes in the long run, but all your current income is taxed at its current rate and the income over the next bracket threshold would be taxed at the higher rate.

 

[footfairy]

Dude. No.



Everyone I know who said what you said always shorting themselves of so much money they could have pocketed because of simple misconception.

You're too fast! It's like you smelled the incorrect personal finance statement!!

 

[imclarkent]

That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!

Do yourself a favor and get real intimate with some basic level personal finance information, not a dissertation level deep dive, just a couple of hours on tax rates, retirement accounts, ect.

You only pay a higher tax rate on the income in the new bracket. I guess you technically do pay more taxes in the long run, but all your current income is taxed at its current rate and the income over the next bracket threshold would be taxed at the higher rate.

No, I know how it works. I only pay the higher tax on whatever puts me over the next tax bracket. But still, I’d be paying more tax for that over amount.. which in the grand scheme of things, makes my pay raise lower.

 

[Momus]

No, I know how it works. I only pay the higher tax on whatever puts me over the next tax bracket. But still, I’d be paying more tax for that over amount.. which in the grand scheme of things, makes my pay raise lower.

I see you'd rather make 0 vs. 70 cents.

 

[imclarkent]

I see you'd rather make 0 vs. 70 cents.

Touché.

 

[deleted562805]

I don’t mind making announcements doing huddles. I am concerned though about losing clinical skills, especially because I’m still a relatively new pharmacist.

Yeah, I wouldn’t take this job if I was a new pharmacist after finishing a residency. You would loose your clinical skills.

 

[Sine Cura]

Randos taking DOP positions at CAHs right out of school isn't unheard of.

You're not a new pharmacist.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

It’s operational managerial position. Current manager is a rockstar, very hardworking, day in day out, made sure everything in the pharmacy was functioning smoothly so manager is leaving us at a great spot. Manager is leaving for a better opportunity, relocating, probably for a higher pay as well.

What's your long-term goal? Or even your 5 year plan? You've likely already reached your clinical ceiling beyond becoming an RPD or clinical manager. Unless you want to pursue academia full time? Ops manager would put you on the path to work up to med safety, director of pharmacy, or more corporate positions on a system-wide level.

 

[wazoodog]

That’s what I’m afraid of - losing my clinical knowledge.

I hear this a lot from relatively younger pharmacists. You may lose some clinical knowledge, but the important part that stays with you will be how to think as a clinician and how to think as a scientist. If you choose to progress your career as a people manager and leader, moving away from day-to-day usage of your technical expertise is a given as you need to start developing leadership skills and gain a wider scope of responsibilities. To put it one way, all those people who are using their clinical knowledge everyday needs a leader who can relate to what they're doing. I wouldn't look at it as losing clinical knowledge, but as leveraging your clinical knowledge to better lead your team.

At the same time, you can always keep up with technical/clinical expertise as much as time allows. You can attend webinars and conferences too - but should also dedicate time to develop management skills which will serve you better in your future career progression and also is more transferable to to other areas of life compared to clinical knowledge.

 

[imclarkent]

What's your long-term goal? Or even your 5 year plan? You've likely already reached your clinical ceiling beyond becoming an RPD or clinical manager. Unless you want to pursue academia full time? Ops manager would put you on the path to work up to med safety, director of pharmacy, or more corporate positions on a system-wide level.

I always thought the end goal would be to be in some sort of management position, but I was thinking after 5-7 years of clinical practice. I can also see myself staying in clinical work for a long time. There’s also the concern of being burned out too fast.

 

[imclarkent]

I hear this a lot from relatively younger pharmacists. You may lose some clinical knowledge, but the important part that stays with you will be how to think as a clinician and how to think as a scientist. If you choose to progress your career as a people manager and leader, moving away from day-to-day usage of your technical expertise is a given as you need to start developing leadership skills and gain a wider scope of responsibilities. To put it one way, all those people who are using their clinical knowledge everyday needs a leader who can relate to what they're doing. I wouldn't look at it as losing clinical knowledge, but as leveraging your clinical knowledge to better lead your team.

At the same time, you can always keep up with technical/clinical expertise as much as time allows. You can attend webinars and conferences too - but should also dedicate time to develop management skills which will serve you better in your future career progression and also is more transferable to to other areas of life compared to clinical knowledge.

Appreciate your post! Made me think about some things I haven’t considered regarding my pros and cons list!

 

[wazoodog]

Appreciate your post! Made me think about some things I haven’t considered regarding my pros and cons list!

Some prefer to follow a technical expertise track and focus their career development on technical knowledge and experience, and others prefer to pursue the organizational and people management and leadership track. I think the fact that you're asking this question here means the management track is an area you're at least interested in going into one day. Opportunities to make that jump often come unexpectedly at times we didn't anticipate.

Are there any relatively “new” pharmacists here that took on a inpatient pharmacy managerial position? What was the stress level? Learning curve? How was your leadership development? How did you know you were ready to take on a leadership role? I know management role is A LOT of work, I’m just assessing my readiness to tackle on that kind of work.

We shouldn't jump into a role we're totally unprepared for - like suddenly jumping from clinical pharmacist to being accountable for all financials in the hospital. At the same time, I don't think anyone steps into a first-time leadership role without asking the very same questions you raise. You know you're ready to take on a leadership role when you feel ready to be accountable for a higher level of responsibilities, are committed to developing your team, and feel dedicated to recognizing your shortcomings as a leader and take the initiative to develop leadership skills. I also think it's important that you've had at least one experience of reporting to a good line manager so that you can have a high standard baseline for what makes a good leader.

There will be stress and a learning curve just like your first few months of any new role, or whenever anyone takes on a higher level of accountability and responsibilities. That all stems from increased visibility within your organization. If you want to pursue the management and leadership track of development, embracing visibility is important - it's how you become an influence for the clinicians under you. An individual pharmacist can have all the clinical expertise in the world, but a leader sets up the team for success with the appropriate resources, support, and direction.

My advice is to invest in leadership training from early on. Find out if your workplace provides any management training or is willing to have you attend a training seminar or webinar for a even a day or 2. This type of provided training for new managers is common throughout pharma and Fortune500 companies. See if you can convince your higher-up that setting aside department budget for such management training is well worth it - a few thousand invested in developing a good manager is well worth it in the long run. If you still can't attend, at the very least read the books that these training seminars are based around such as those by Ken Blanchard and Robert Matuson.

A final tip to help you simplify things when there seems to be too much going on at once...break it down into 3 dimensions: people, processes, and technology (or structure). If you want to start or implement something, think in those 3 dimensions. If you want to get to the bottom of an issue, or fix a system weakness - go back to thinking in those 3 dimensions. When you want to learn more about the system you're learning - look to understand in those 3 dimensions.