Thoughts On AOA/AACOM merger with ACGME

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Hi All,

What are your thoughts on the merger in regards to residency matching? Do you think this will benefit DO's, in that it will broaden the scope of specialties that a DO can do? Do you think this will put DO's at a disadvantage?

Any thoughts/concerns are appreciated. Leaving this thread pretty open.

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The search function will be your friends. There are hundreds of pages discussing this.
 
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In before thread is locked.
 
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It doesn’t matter. The merger happens in less than a year and by then AI and mid levels should have completely eliminated the need for doctors anyway.
 
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i have not even started med school but I feel like I have to reconsider my career choice :p
 
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DOs could always apply to all specialties.
 
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To sum it up:

-It sucks for highly competitive specialities that had their own DO residencies.
-It sucks for average or below-average DO students who needed a place to match (a safety, i.e. Family Med, TRI spot).
-It sucks for the DO students who actually went to DO school because they love OMM and the philosophy, and now with no more DO residencies, and less post-merger programs asking to be “Osteopathic Recognized,” will there be a future for DO advancement in graduate medical education and CME? Probably not.

Of course, doesn’t matter for the high achieving DO student who would have went ACGME anyway...but now with much more competition across the board. Hope that helps!
 
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To sum it up:

-It sucks for highly competitive specialities that had their own DO residencies.
-It sucks for average or below-average DO students who needed a place to match (a safety, i.e. Family Med, TRI spot).
-It sucks for the DO students who actually went to DO school because they love OMM and the philosophy, and now with no more DO residencies, and less post-merger programs asking to be “Osteopathic Recognized,” will there be a future for DO advancement in graduate medical education and CME? Probably not.

Of course, doesn’t matter for the high achieving DO student who would have went ACGME anyway...but now with much more competition across the board. Hope that helps!

I’d say that it still sucks for DOs wanting Uber competitive stuff but not for bottom of the barrel DOs. Bc majority (almost all actually) of the AOA FM, IM, TYs converted and many of them actually increased the number of spots making the total raw number of AOA spots greater than it was pre merger. Sure, MDs can now apply but I’d wager the increase in spots and the overall lack of MD (outside of Carrib) actually applying will still allows these DOs to match easily.
 
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I’d say that it still sucks for DOs wanting Uber competitive stuff but not for bottom of the barrel DOs. Bc majority (almost all actually) of the AOA FM, IM, TYs concerted and many of them actually increased the number of spots making the total raw number of AOA spots greater than it was pre merger. Sure, MDs can now apply but I’d wager the increase in spots and the overall lack of MD (outside of Carrib) actually applying will still allows these DOs to match easily.

Also, to add to that many programs obtained osteopathic recognition which requires MD to have OMM training to apply. Other programs are setting their minimum usmle scores really high (230s/240s/250s) while their minimum comlex scores are like 450/500.
 
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Also, to add to that many programs obtained osteopathic recognition which requires MD to have OMM training to apply. Other programs are setting their minimum usmle scores really high (230s/240s/250s) while their minimum comlex scores are like 450/500.

Just because they have osteopathic recognition doesnt mean it requires any OMM training.
 
Just because they have osteopathic recognition doesnt mean it requires any OMM training.
I'm pretty sure some do require some OMM training to apply, and then you also have to fulfill some OMM requirements while in residency as well.
 
I'm pretty sure some do require some OMM training to apply, and then you also have to fulfill some OMM requirements while in residency as well.

Yes, some do requiring it to apply but I’ve noticed most don’t. I’ve gotten seven interviews from programs with osteopathic recognition, and all have MDs on their rosters.

The OMM requirements are for DOs only.
 
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Just because they have osteopathic recognition doesnt mean it requires any OMM training.
I don’t think that is true. Pretty sure there is an OMM requirement. A kid in my school has a sister at Loyola and they are now offering an elective in OMM (his sister is taking it currently) in order to meet requirements of programs with osteopathic recognition.
 
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Just because they have osteopathic recognition doesnt mean it requires any OMM training.
This what OSU has on their requirements for MD students for example. I guess maybe not all programs with osteopathic recognition are doing this, but the following statements had me think that all of them were doing it:

Graduate of a United States (US) LCME college of medicine plus completion of all OSU-CHS/OMECO prerequisite requirements for entry into an ACGME accredited Osteopathic Recognition residency program.

Graduate of a US LCME college of medicine and a passing score on the COMLEX-USA Level 1, Level 2 CE and Level 2 PE exams.

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I've seen several programs that look pretty well constructed to make MDs WORK in order to qualify to apply (+125hrs OMM shadowing/rotation). Like, yeah, sure, they could do that but what MD student will?
 
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So my home program got osteopathic recognition and to keep it they have to average 1 person throughout each year of their residency. The people on this track have to average a minimum of 1 hour a week related to OMM. An MD can be on this track if they choose.
Some programs decide to be more strict about their requirements while others meet the bare minimum.
 
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I don’t think that is true. Pretty sure there is an OMM requirement. A kid in my school has a sister at Loyola and they are now offering an elective in OMM (his sister is taking it currently) in order to meet requirements of programs with osteopathic recognition.

I recently rotated at an osteopathic recongnized program. MDs had no OMM requirement. Im receiving interviews from many programs that fall into this, no OMM requirement. Only one program I had on my initial list had any requirement for OMM experience to be considered.

Also see what Samac said.
 
I don’t think that is true. Pretty sure there is an OMM requirement. A kid in my school has a sister at Loyola and they are now offering an elective in OMM (his sister is taking it currently) in order to meet requirements of programs with osteopathic recognition.
I’m applying to a different field than ciestar and exactly 0 of the “osteopathic-recognition” ones require any kind of omm.
 
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Genuine question to the posters above: if they don’t require omm, and take MDs, then what’s the point of even bothering being “osteopathic recognized”? Wouldn’t it be easier to not bother with it?
 
Genuine question to the posters above: if they don’t require omm, and take MDs, then what’s the point of even bothering being “osteopathic recognized”? Wouldn’t it be easier to not bother with it?

From my understanding, it doesnt take much to get that recognition and a lot of practicing DOs do still use OMM or plan to. Some want a program with a bigger OMM focus.
 
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There is not a single advantage I can think of for DO students with the merger. The selection of residents is completely up to the PDs, and they won’t change how they feel about DOs just because the AOA/ACGME tell them so.

Sure, if you think the merger combines the DO and MD residency application systems so we don’t have to go through two matches, there’s one advantage.
 
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There is not a single advantage I can think of for DO students with the merger. The selection of residents is completely up to the PDs, and they won’t change how they feel about DOs just because the AOA/ACGME tell them so.

Sure, if you think the merger combines the DO and MD residency application systems so we don’t have to go through two matches, there’s one advantage.

I wouldn't say not a single advantage or one single advantage being not having to go through 2 matches. I think with a single accreditation, it brings more recognition to DOs nationally and internationally, and top DO students are matching better than before as well. Also, remember that without the merger, we would be barred from applying to ACGME's fellowship programs that was the catch in the first place, AOA was forced to agree. Most old AOA programs made it through the other side with some having to increase their number of spots to get ACGME accreditation, so I don't think it's all that doom and gloom. The actual problem is school expansion on both sides of the aisle, but more on the DO side. They have to slow down otherwise soon number of students will exceed number of residency spots.
 
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There is not a single advantage I can think of for DO students with the merger. The selection of residents is completely up to the PDs, and they won’t change how they feel about DOs just because the AOA/ACGME tell them so.

Sure, if you think the merger combines the DO and MD residency application systems so we don’t have to go through two matches, there’s one advantage.
You honestly have no clue. The main goal of the generation of the new GME accreditation system is to ensure that old AOA residencies qualify their residents for ACGME fellowships.
 
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I wouldn't say not a single advantage or one single advantage being not having to go through 2 matches. I think with a single accreditation, it brings more recognition to DOs nationally and internationally, and top DO students are matching better than before as well. Also, remember that without the merger, we would be barred from applying to ACGME's fellowship programs that was the catch in the first place, AOA was forced to agree. Most old AOA programs made it through the other side with some having to increase their number of spots to get ACGME accreditation, so I don't it's all that doom and gloom. The actual problem is school expansion on both sides of the aisle, but more on the DO side. They have to slow down otherwise soon number of students will exceed number of residency spots.

And as more and more excellent DOs emerge, that helps with the stigma. But on the flip side, the new schools with questionable clinical training (or schools known to some PDs with questionable training) will bring that stigma back into focus. There are a lot of DOs as PDs in many programs across the country.

I dont believe it is all doom and gloom either. Many candidates and schools perform well and will continue to do so. It is the DO candidates that are less competitive and those are newer schools that will struggle more.
 
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