Thoughts on brand new obgyn residency program ranking?

[tia_obgynFTW]

I am in a dilemma about ranking a new residency program....i am interested in becoming a generalist but worry about the long term effects of employment if I train at a new ob gyn residency program versus one that is established. Thoughts?

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[22031 Alum]

If you complete residency and are eligible to hold a state license, you will get hired somewhere. That will not be an issue. Nobody will consider you unemployable because of the age of your program. There are still a couple of things to keep in mind, though. First, finding a job may require a little more legwork, if you do not have as robust a network to tap into. Second, there will always be kinks in a new program/system. Established programs have them too, but they tend to be less dramatic. If the administration at the new program has some experience with running a residency before, that will be very helpful.

I will admit that I am very biased. I trained at an established program and didn't apply to new programs- even one that started up my hometown!! I also had excellent senior residents whom I try to model myself after to this day. While I have coworkers who were in the early classes of a new program and did fine, I cannot imagine going through training without upper levels. Juniors need seniors.

 

[bayleebeegood]

Long-time viewer, first-time poster, so take it for what you will.

While I can't argue with the above, this statement comes from an attending physician who may have applied to Obstetrics and Gynecology programs at a time when the specialty was not at the peak of its popularity. I certainly don't think it was during a time where 600 applicants were left to scramble into another specialty or re-apply! But now you have a specialty that is becoming increasingly attractive, that had roughly 1260 spots for 1800+ applicants last year, and there's just no wiggle room anymore.

I'm not here to sway opinions, but the two major things I feel like you have to decide are 1) whether you would rather risk entering the SOAP (and risk doing something else for a year and going through the interview process again or entering a different specialty altogether) than have one more opportunity to match into an accredited residency program and 2) whether you have the cojones to rise to the challenge that a new but accredited program presents. Every last program in this country had to start somewhere, even UPMC. As long as you can be honest with yourself about those two questions, then you will have done what is best for you, and that's all that matters. I would hate to see anyone miserable in a residency program that wasn't right for them for whatever reason just to have a job, but I would hate to see a new program suffer because they matched someone whose heart wasn't vested in the process (though they'll hardly suffer, seeing as they have been functioning well without residents thus far). As for juniors and seniors, why can't your attendings be considered your seniors? It's not like you'll be left in the wild to fend for yourself. They wouldn't have embarked on this journey if they didn't want or anticipate success for their future residents.

Best of luck!

 

[DrMidlife]

imho the difference between people who will be more or less happy in a new program (med school, residency, practice, internet start-up etc), and people who won't, comes down to this: if you don't know what room you're supposed to be in, do you
a) wait for somebody to tell you; it's not your job to figure this crap out
b) figure out where you're supposed to be on your own; you don't get offended at having to personally contribute to chaos abatement

and the difference between people who work well on a new team in a new organization, and people who don't, comes down to this: if you figure out a thing for yourself do you
a) call it a day because you have what you need to get by
b) realize other people on your team need the same info and get that info to the team

there's more to it, obviously, but i'm trying to generalize. The "A" answers indicate that you would do better in a more established program, but note that there are plenty of established programs that don't operate well.

imho your ranking of a new program, assuming you generally liked the faculty & residents & facilities & curriculum & location, should be based on answering the above q's as honestly as you can.

best of luck to you

 

[22031 Alum]

Long-time viewer, first-time poster, so take it for what you will.

While I can't argue with the above, this statement comes from an attending physician who may have applied to Obstetrics and Gynecology programs at a time when the specialty was not at the peak of its popularity. I certainly don't think it was during a time where 600 applicants were left to scramble into another specialty or re-apply! But now you have a specialty that is becoming increasingly attractive, that had roughly 1260 spots for 1800+ applicants last year, and there's just no wiggle room anymore.

I'm not here to sway opinions, but the two major things I feel like you have to decide are 1) whether you would rather risk entering the SOAP (and risk doing something else for a year and going through the interview process again or entering a different specialty altogether) than have one more opportunity to match into an accredited residency program and 2) whether you have the cojones to rise to the challenge that a new but accredited program presents. Every last program in this country had to start somewhere, even UPMC. As long as you can be honest with yourself about those two questions, then you will have done what is best for you, and that's all that matters. I would hate to see anyone miserable in a residency program that wasn't right for them for whatever reason just to have a job, but I would hate to see a new program suffer because they matched someone whose heart wasn't vested in the process (though they'll hardly suffer, seeing as they have been functioning well without residents thus far). As for juniors and seniors, why can't your attendings be considered your seniors? It's not like you'll be left in the wild to fend for yourself. They wouldn't have embarked on this journey if they didn't want or anticipate success for their future residents.

Best of luck!

I never for one moment interpreted OP's post as a question of whether to rank the program at all. If that is actually what was meant, good catch on your part! I was answering the question of whether to rank them highly. I'm a firm believer in ranking every program you interview at unless you'd honestly rather not be a physician at all than go there.

To address your "why can't your attendings be considered your seniors?" question, obviously this will vary from program to program. I have coworkers who trained at two different new residency programs. From what they've described when we talk about our experiences, they had mentorship from attendings, but it was a strict boss/subordinate relationship. Nothing like the unique mix of friendship/mentorship that my program had between seniors and juniors. To be fair, there are probably plenty of programs with senior residents where that doesn't happen.

 

[residencycoord]

I personally would think twice about ranking a new program unless you are absolutely sure that the training you receive will be comparable to an established program. Residency is very difficult and I think that part of helping you get through that process is the camaraderie and closeness of your fellow residents. I would take a look at the faculty at this program. Make sure that there are plenty of senior and junior faculty who would make taking this big step worth your while. Is this program affiliated with another program nearby? Also get advice from your mentors at your medical school.