Thoughts on Greeley

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peerie

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I am just about to submit my list but I was wondering about some of the changes in the Northern Colorado program. I like the programs I have been to and saw alot of excellent places. I also liked Greeley, but there were some things I wondered about with the change in PD's.

Seems like a great program but I wondered if people with more experience than myself might have some information or insight into its current situation? I feel pretty comfortable with where I have it on my list, but thought I would ask for any last minute feedback or comments.

Strengths? weaknesses? anything in particular? Like I said, I really liked it but just wanted to hear from others. 🙂
 
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Ok then, has anyone even heard of this program? 🙂

No, seriously. It's ok if all you can say is that it is an awesome program and you totally love it. I do. All the Colorado programs are excellent. I was just hoping for a little more feedback from the fan club. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
 
LOL. When I was doing my basic sciences in England, a representative from Greeley came to our campus to recruit (guess he was hittin em early). Other than that I know nothing about the program. If its accredited, they can provide you with what you need to succeed. Other than that , residency is like medical school, its what YOU put into it, not where you do it.

Best of luck,

-T
 
I don't agree with the last poster about residency just being what you make of it. But anyway, I am undecided about where to rank Greeley. I don't know too much about the change in program directors but I am a little concerned with the merger of the two tracks just because any change can be disruptive. I really like the program because of the residents - most plan to practice in rural areas, so are proactive in getting the training they will need. I found that residents at many other programs told me that training for "x" procedure was possible, but that they and other residents weren't seeking such training. A few residents bragged that they did more than the residents in Ft. Collins, such as writing orders in the ICU and running codes. My two holdups are the location and feeling that maybe I will feel like the odd one out since I'm not from a rural town and I'm not sure that I will be going into a rural practice, although that, and broad-spectrum medicine, appeal to me.

Are you also considering Ft. Collins or other programs in CO? PM me if you want to discuss this further - I also need to make up my mind soon!
 
Fort Collins rocks! it is an awesome program. 👍

In general, most of the programs in CO are super good. Just was wondering about the changes at NCFM. Wanted to put my ear to the ground and listen for feedback, etc. I will pm you -

I also agree that a program is more than what you put into it. It's hard to make a delicious apple pie with apples that are 'off,' or bruised. 😉
 
About halfway through intern year, you will realize that your decision was based on all kinds of bogus stuff, because you didn't yet know what really mattered to you. That's just part of the learning.

You're going to work 80 hrs/week everywhere. Things that make life less painful are: not having to come in to round on weekends if you're not on call. Fewer months of q3 call. No post-call clinic as an intern. Having seniors who will help out at key times when you're struggling, instead of having rigid expectations that you must see every admission (esp when you're a new intern). We all work hard, so let's not argue about who works hardest.

There are big differences btw living in Greeley and living in Fort Collins, for example. That might be a factor. IMO, Greeley is more conservative and agricultural, eastern plains, more entrenched cultural divides, a relatively poor community, a very high-needs patient population from whom you can learn a lot. Fort Collins gives you a college town, wealthier and more educated, with a different flavor of learning. Where do you want to live? Where do you want to work? Do you really want to commute?

Look at the extracurricular interests of the other residents and think, if I don't have much in common with them, what am I going to do for fun? Don't fall into the trap of thinking you'll be driving down to Denver for an exciting social life; in reality, not many people make that trip very often.

Look at the structure of the inpatient FM service and realize that rounding on 7+ patients each morning is a challenge for the average intern; this gets very difficult if you are simultaneously admitting and covering L&D, for example. Is the service set up to help you stay focused and learn, or are you running all over the place? Remember that as an intern you have to do a lot more than a med student, and seeing and discharging even 5 people is a LOT of work if you have to write prescriptions, dictate, reconcile the med list, etc. Some services admit and then d/c 90% of their patients in 3 days - that's a lot of admission and d/c paperwork, and it all takes time.

Look at the faculty - how many of them are doing the things you want to be doing - e.g. OB, gyn procedures, inpt medicine, sports med, procedures, C/S - ideally, you need to have more than 1 person doing the things you like. I agree that there is a big diff btw wanting to do optional procedures and being expected to do them. If you are expected to do them, then there will be adequate teaching/supervision available. If it's optional, you will have to work harder b/c you'll be out of the norm, and you may find there's no one to supervise you.

Look at the clinic pt population and their problem lists - are you going to see a good range of pathology in your areas of interest? or are you going to end up with 90% prenatal? or 90% older pts with chronic disease and comorbid psych problems? you need a good variety. How much sports med/MSK stuff does your clinic do, if that's important? guys, there needs to be enough ob/gyn that you will get enough continuity deliveries + women's health even when 80% of female pts want to see a female provider. Girls, there need to be enough male pts that you will get to do well-man checks and get comfortable with gender-specific issues.

What kind of performance feedback do you get from the faculty? You should be getting structured, 1:1 verbal feedback from a faculty member 2x/year, and other informal feedback more often, esp when you're just starting. Are the seniors good about helping you improve, or do people criticize behind each other's backs? Are the faculty open to improving - do you hear them talk about skills they are working on as teachers and clinicians? Is there an open environment where everyone supports each other in learning (faculty and residents), or is everyone busy criticizing?

I know you do not want to hear this, but if you want to make any money as a doctor, go to a program where you have to do your own billing at least for clinic visits. This is a painful but necessary long-term learning process and needs to be integrated into your learning.

Finally, some parts of Colorado are very liberal or very conservative, so be realistic (not idealistic) about the religious/political views of your coworkers, and choose an environment that you will be comfortable working in.

good luck

p.s. don't stress too much about the new PD issue. Most programs in CO are going through admin changes, most for benign reasons - people move on and change professional interests/priorities. Change is often good; every program in CO is in flux these days. You should be more concerned when residents' concerns are not taken seriously and there are longstanding problems that are not being resolved.
 
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Thank you MeowMix, that post was just awesome! 👍

I think people in many different programs and residencies can benefit from your wise words. I hope that others who are deciding about what to look for in a program also find value in what you say. Kudos to you!
 
Some of the residents confided in me that the reason for the PD change was that the new hospital administration decided they didn't want residents doing endoscopy and C-sections due to liability, and the PD would not stand for such a change (since such procedures were always a bragging point of the full-scope training program that was what drew alot of residents there, and he believed that was an important part of training FPs to practice rurally) and had a falling out with the administration and left due to their conflicting interests. After that, under the new PD, a C-section track was created for some of the residents to get these skills. I don't know what happened from there or what deals the current PD and hospital administration have worked out. I would imagine that even with the administration telling attendings not to let residents do those procedures you might be able to get some of those attendings to let you do the procedures just like old times, but there's no guarantee. But maybe it's all worked out and things are currently better than ever there - I don't know. I'd love to hear any other details anyone else out there is willing to share. In any case I say go to a place where current residents are consistently and stably and successfully logging all the procedures you're interested in in adequate numbers to get competence and priveleges where you want to practice. Good luck!
 
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