Hello, I was just curious as to what your thoughts were on Harvard extension school. I am considering taking some the three courses needed to be enrolled in the school but I just wanted to know whether it was worth considering.
Thoughts on Harvard extension school
- Thread starter dudenkem
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What specifically are you looking to take? The classes there are no joke. They require A LOT of studying, but the professors tend to be amazing and you learn a lot. Most courses use the same exact curriculum as the undergrad courses. The prices are also quite reasonable. But for most of their courses, I wouldn't suggest taking more than one at a time if you are also working.
But most, at least speaking to psychology, have additional work requirements for graduate students.
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I can't speak to the grad psych program. It looks like it's been covered here however:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mla-psychology-at-harvard-university.937599/
I would be careful though, because I don't *think* you are license eligible with that degree. But that may not be something you're concerned about.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mla-psychology-at-harvard-university.937599/
I would be careful though, because I don't *think* you are license eligible with that degree. But that may not be something you're concerned about.
Yes, I intended to complete the HES ALM in clinical psychology and apply to phD programs in clinical psychology anywhere?.. Is that a viable option?
I intended on completing the masters program in clinical psychology and then possibly applying to different phD programs.
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I took a night class there and it was awesome (Abnormal Psych, at the "grad student" level- you can take most of their classes at the undergrad or grad level). I reached out to the professor a few months later with some questions- at that time I was considering grad school in Psych- and she was really great and wrote me a wonderful, thoughtful email. I learned a lot and as someone transitioning into the field, thought it was a really great class (better than the night class I took in person at a nearby, reputable university in Boston). Even though I lived close to Harvard at the time, I chose to watch most of the lectures online instead of going in because it was way more convenient. Their transcripts are also free to send, which was nice 🙂
I would suggest taking their classes at the grad level, but I'm not sure I would suggest the degree. I considered it as well, but it just didn't make sense. Instead, I'd take the classes you need/want to take, and get some research experience as a volunteer in a lab somewhere. They don't have a thesis option and some of the classes really aren't necessary. I'm not sure how much the degree itself would benefit you above and beyond required classes and research. I did end up getting a full-time master's before going into my PhD, but it was a two-year, full-time MS degree with a thesis (elsewhere).
I would suggest taking their classes at the grad level, but I'm not sure I would suggest the degree. I considered it as well, but it just didn't make sense. Instead, I'd take the classes you need/want to take, and get some research experience as a volunteer in a lab somewhere. They don't have a thesis option and some of the classes really aren't necessary. I'm not sure how much the degree itself would benefit you above and beyond required classes and research. I did end up getting a full-time master's before going into my PhD, but it was a two-year, full-time MS degree with a thesis (elsewhere).
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I know plenty of people who took their classes while working full-time, most of them wanting to get the pre-med requirements before applying to med school. The classes are designed for working professionals and are free if you work at Harvard.
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While it's aimed for working professionals, it isn't mean to take a full caseload. As I said previously I can't speak to the grad psych stuff there. There is a difference between taking orgo and taking abnormal psych.
Because of the licensing ineligibility, and it being an extension school, I chose to go elsewhere to pursue grad school for Psych. I would be too nervous to go to a program where, if I didn't get into a Ph.D program, it left me with no back up plan.
Because of the licensing ineligibility, and it being an extension school, I chose to go elsewhere to pursue grad school for Psych. I would be too nervous to go to a program where, if I didn't get into a Ph.D program, it left me with no back up plan.
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It is a Harvard University degree. HES isn't incorporated or accredited separately, it's a school of Harvard University.
What an HES degree isn't the same as is a degree from one of the other schools of Harvard. A HES ALM in psychology isn't the same as a Harvard University Graduate School of Arts and Sciences (GSAS) MA in psychology. A HES ALM in Management isn't the same as a Harvard Business School MBA, and so on.
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Extension School ALM theses go into the Harvard Libraries. Grossman Library, the reference library for HES, maintains a list of theses from the past five years.
For 2009 to 2013, there are 36 theses listed in Psychology. There are none listed under Clinical Psychology, a relatively new degree title. Perhaps the library lists these under Psychology as a parent title; perhaps no one has completed an HES Clin Psy degree yet.
In any case, the number of people who complete any psychology ALM from HES is small, a running average of about 7 per year. Some of those may apply to PhDs in psychology, some will have other goals. Any answer we find to the question "How will an HES ALM in [clinical] psychology look to PhD clin psy adcoms?" is probably going to be more speculative than empirical, because there's such a small population of HES ALMs in psychology.
This also underscores the general point that completing a degree at HES is challenging. Don't let how easy it is to get in (to start taking courses) lull you into a false sense of how much it will take to get out (with a degree).
For 2009 to 2013, there are 36 theses listed in Psychology. There are none listed under Clinical Psychology, a relatively new degree title. Perhaps the library lists these under Psychology as a parent title; perhaps no one has completed an HES Clin Psy degree yet.
In any case, the number of people who complete any psychology ALM from HES is small, a running average of about 7 per year. Some of those may apply to PhDs in psychology, some will have other goals. Any answer we find to the question "How will an HES ALM in [clinical] psychology look to PhD clin psy adcoms?" is probably going to be more speculative than empirical, because there's such a small population of HES ALMs in psychology.
This also underscores the general point that completing a degree at HES is challenging. Don't let how easy it is to get in (to start taking courses) lull you into a false sense of how much it will take to get out (with a degree).
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I've posted on the topic before, but will weigh in, as well as PM you:
GETTING IN:
Easy to "get in" and easy to "take" are not synonymous. The classes are easy to take - you just pay to do so (and for two of them you have to test well enough to even take them). Easy to get in requires passing the "easy to take" courses LOL. Stats is anything but easy. The Proseminar is anything but easy - even for someone who LOVES to write (as evidenced by the length of this post). The third course can be any psych class, I did Abnormal with Carson - great text selection, great lectures, great conversation, involved grading and support from TAs.
ALUM STATUS: (psychrat)
I second Chartero's comment: ALM/ALB alumni are well respected graduates of the institution by all of those that matter. If anyone is naive to the difficulty of completing Harvard's extension degree, they likely do not know enough about Harvard to warrant an opinion worthy of any weight. I've said before: All other schools at Harvard are very hard to get into, but most alumni graduate. Extension is easiER (not easY) to get into, but very few graduate (partly because many never intend to, but even of those who complete all but the thesis, which is - as we say in the South - a booger-bear)... I'm doing it now. Also, you are open to join many of the other Harvard networks, like the band even. I was (am) a member of the Harvard Aviation Club.
GRAD VS. UG LEVELS:
As others have said, the content is the same for classes that permit graduate and undergraduate students - it's didactic. Both students read the same material and hear the same lecture. My experience suggests that professors 1. grade graduate students as if they are indeed graduate students (if you're a grad student you kind of know what I mean by this) and 2. expect publish-quality research, i.e. a lot more research-oriented than undergraduate students and absolutely NO fluff. However, some classes only permit graduate students. When I took the proseminar it was grad-students only and my final work (on Law and Psychology) out of that class was accepted with revisions. Also, I took Self Destructive Behavior with Matt Nock and it was graduate-only... if I'm remembering correctly. It was all literature-based reading. Stats permitted both, but graduate students had a larger analysis as the final project. In sum, HES is preparing undergrads to know the course content, but preparing grads to know it, apply it, and contribute to it.
LICENSURE:
What prompted my reply at all was a bump on another thread where I commented on licensure-able-ness from the ALM. To remain in context, I only called the State of Massachusetts. I was told that no special accreditation was required (no idea if this is true now), however certain aspects of the curriculum must be present. Talking in depth revealed that the "general" psych ALM would not be very helpful for licensure, but with some additional courses from another institution, the Clinical Psych ALM would at MINIMUM, not be a waste of time and would meet the "degree aspect of the requirements" (quote taken from the mouth of the person with whom I spoke). As another poster above also said, the ALM would possibly provide advanced standing elsewhere, not to mention I feel like my research and publication skills are a direct result of Harvard's research-focus. I've been at three graduate schools and Harvard is by far the best for preparing one for research and publication (disclosure: typos in this post are a result of it being after 1AM, not of my incompetence!). All that said, if someone wanted to be a masters-level clinician I WOULD NOT suggest HES. I'd suggest MSW - namely Simmons if one were in the area.
PHD CANDIDACY:
What originally started the thread was if HES was a viable option to enhance a PhD application. While an above poster is right, there are very few data sets to look at for a quantitative answer, there is no doubt that anyone with a degree from Harvard Extension (ALM or ALB) has enhanced their options for the future. Either the person to whom you're speaking won't know the difference between Harvard Business, Harvard Extension, and Harvard Divinity, OR, they'll know Harvard Extension is a respectable achievement on par with the curriculum (not the application procedures) of other Harvard Schools, OR, they'll mistakingly THINK they have HES all figured out. I've explained countless times what HES is and how it fits into the Harvard Family (long before some of the other Harvard Schools where in the family (e.g., design)). Your research and writing skills will be impeccable (ideally). And we know from the long history of HES that graduates of HES have gone on to some of the greatest doctoral level programs out there - Harvard Law, Carnegie Mellon, Yale, Duke Med... there's a list somewhere. Graduating with a degree from HES should make you feel proud, very proud. (Can you tell I am? LOL)
What Harvard is offering to the community is truly a diamond in the rough of the academic economy. As a HES student I get access to the top professors in the United States (in my opinion), an amazing academic library with advanced online accessibility, not to mention the multitude of OTHER Harvard resources we get - job opportunities, career coaching, and networking for the rest of our lives. And what does it cost for this amazing experience? No more than the University of State around the corner. The HES experience has been the most enriching academic experience of my life.
I told my partner about a year ago that when our kids go off to college they have two options:
1. Get a full ride to wherever they want to go (up to and including Harvard College), or,
2. If your dads are going to pay for it, it's going to be an ALB from Extension... That, I'll be willing to pay for in full.
It's like finding caviar on sale.
When you apply to a Ph.D., you still have caviar on your CV. And you can share with your interviewer how you got it on sale, to boot.
They might just say: "Ah, so you've got more than just book-smarts, eh?"
GETTING IN:
Easy to "get in" and easy to "take" are not synonymous. The classes are easy to take - you just pay to do so (and for two of them you have to test well enough to even take them). Easy to get in requires passing the "easy to take" courses LOL. Stats is anything but easy. The Proseminar is anything but easy - even for someone who LOVES to write (as evidenced by the length of this post). The third course can be any psych class, I did Abnormal with Carson - great text selection, great lectures, great conversation, involved grading and support from TAs.
ALUM STATUS: (psychrat)
I second Chartero's comment: ALM/ALB alumni are well respected graduates of the institution by all of those that matter. If anyone is naive to the difficulty of completing Harvard's extension degree, they likely do not know enough about Harvard to warrant an opinion worthy of any weight. I've said before: All other schools at Harvard are very hard to get into, but most alumni graduate. Extension is easiER (not easY) to get into, but very few graduate (partly because many never intend to, but even of those who complete all but the thesis, which is - as we say in the South - a booger-bear)... I'm doing it now. Also, you are open to join many of the other Harvard networks, like the band even. I was (am) a member of the Harvard Aviation Club.
GRAD VS. UG LEVELS:
As others have said, the content is the same for classes that permit graduate and undergraduate students - it's didactic. Both students read the same material and hear the same lecture. My experience suggests that professors 1. grade graduate students as if they are indeed graduate students (if you're a grad student you kind of know what I mean by this) and 2. expect publish-quality research, i.e. a lot more research-oriented than undergraduate students and absolutely NO fluff. However, some classes only permit graduate students. When I took the proseminar it was grad-students only and my final work (on Law and Psychology) out of that class was accepted with revisions. Also, I took Self Destructive Behavior with Matt Nock and it was graduate-only... if I'm remembering correctly. It was all literature-based reading. Stats permitted both, but graduate students had a larger analysis as the final project. In sum, HES is preparing undergrads to know the course content, but preparing grads to know it, apply it, and contribute to it.
LICENSURE:
What prompted my reply at all was a bump on another thread where I commented on licensure-able-ness from the ALM. To remain in context, I only called the State of Massachusetts. I was told that no special accreditation was required (no idea if this is true now), however certain aspects of the curriculum must be present. Talking in depth revealed that the "general" psych ALM would not be very helpful for licensure, but with some additional courses from another institution, the Clinical Psych ALM would at MINIMUM, not be a waste of time and would meet the "degree aspect of the requirements" (quote taken from the mouth of the person with whom I spoke). As another poster above also said, the ALM would possibly provide advanced standing elsewhere, not to mention I feel like my research and publication skills are a direct result of Harvard's research-focus. I've been at three graduate schools and Harvard is by far the best for preparing one for research and publication (disclosure: typos in this post are a result of it being after 1AM, not of my incompetence!). All that said, if someone wanted to be a masters-level clinician I WOULD NOT suggest HES. I'd suggest MSW - namely Simmons if one were in the area.
PHD CANDIDACY:
What originally started the thread was if HES was a viable option to enhance a PhD application. While an above poster is right, there are very few data sets to look at for a quantitative answer, there is no doubt that anyone with a degree from Harvard Extension (ALM or ALB) has enhanced their options for the future. Either the person to whom you're speaking won't know the difference between Harvard Business, Harvard Extension, and Harvard Divinity, OR, they'll know Harvard Extension is a respectable achievement on par with the curriculum (not the application procedures) of other Harvard Schools, OR, they'll mistakingly THINK they have HES all figured out. I've explained countless times what HES is and how it fits into the Harvard Family (long before some of the other Harvard Schools where in the family (e.g., design)). Your research and writing skills will be impeccable (ideally). And we know from the long history of HES that graduates of HES have gone on to some of the greatest doctoral level programs out there - Harvard Law, Carnegie Mellon, Yale, Duke Med... there's a list somewhere. Graduating with a degree from HES should make you feel proud, very proud. (Can you tell I am? LOL)
What Harvard is offering to the community is truly a diamond in the rough of the academic economy. As a HES student I get access to the top professors in the United States (in my opinion), an amazing academic library with advanced online accessibility, not to mention the multitude of OTHER Harvard resources we get - job opportunities, career coaching, and networking for the rest of our lives. And what does it cost for this amazing experience? No more than the University of State around the corner. The HES experience has been the most enriching academic experience of my life.
I told my partner about a year ago that when our kids go off to college they have two options:
1. Get a full ride to wherever they want to go (up to and including Harvard College), or,
2. If your dads are going to pay for it, it's going to be an ALB from Extension... That, I'll be willing to pay for in full.
It's like finding caviar on sale.
When you apply to a Ph.D., you still have caviar on your CV. And you can share with your interviewer how you got it on sale, to boot.
They might just say: "Ah, so you've got more than just book-smarts, eh?"
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Not gonna lie, I'm pretty jealous that you took a class with Nock.
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I am not naïve. I simply stated what I was told by a few people who I know who attended the program for pre-requs before applying to medical school. However, both of the people were Ivy League graduates before deciding to go pre-med and take some classes there, so I am sure they understood hard work and were able to work full-time. They also told me that many extension school students try to misrepresent themselves. Getting a degree in psych from Harvard Extension School is just that, a degree from Harvard Extension School. One of them told me that many alums of the program just put Harvard University on their CV's without indicating that it is the extension school. which is quite deceiving IMO.
