thoughts/situation

[medstudent8614]

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i myself as a medical student am very frustrated with a particualr situation that has been brought upon another medical student i know.

this medical student had a mental illness and at one point had to leave school and was on the ward... at the time on the ward , the physicians as part of the treatment team were associated with the university... now at one point imagine yourself being admitted on the ward as a student... and knowing that your peers will be coming to the ward and the team is fully aware of this...though they don't do anything about this , just "deal with it"... I find this completely ludicrous and damaging even to the point where it more adversely affects the mental health state of the individual upon getting better as i'm sure stigma and paranoia would follow....

now what i think is even worse is that , said student during clinical rotations, during psych was put in the same ward as when was a patient... people recognized this there and told said student you cant be here because you were a patient, so made said student leave... again absolutely ridiculous... and quite frankly im very frustrated with all that has been put through on this student and it seems no one gives a &$&%

as well, another physician ....who I think in this day of age we try to be compassionate towards other people.. even told said student that ...said that said student wouldn't even be allowed to go to med school years ago because of the illness... now this comes from a physician who is supposed to be an aide/counselor... talk about kicking something when they are already 20 feet under.

i'm just disgusted by this treatment and there is alot more ..I think it is quite unethical and quite frankly im disgusted that I will have to call these people my peers ... alot more but that is just a bit of this....

would like to hear other comments...this is just only a snapshot of the full picture but I think the treatment received by this individual has been very poor and inconsiderate... and as much as I try to put myself in the other person's shoes...I simply cannot ...

sorry if i am ranting but i just can't believe will have peers such as this in the future. i thought we are supposed to be compassionate people

thanks for listening

 

[ArcGurren]

I'm inclined to agree that the behavior of the people in the wards was pretty unprofessional and unethical. It's one thing to excuse yourself if you're a patient at the time in the wards, but that's pretty cruel.

 

[njbmd]

You don't know the entire situation and you only heard one side. Before you get your "kickers in a knot" about something that doesn't concern you and doesn't affect you, get the entire story first and then learn to ignore what doesn't affect you directly. If you want to have a long career ahead of you, don't waste time and energy on things that do not directly affect you.

Life is too short to worry or even emote over something that you have no direct knowledge of that was posted on a public message board.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

You don't know the entire situation and you only heard one side. Before you get your "kickers in a knot" about something that doesn't concern you and doesn't affect you, get the entire story first and then learn to ignore what doesn't affect you directly. If you want to have a long career ahead of you, don't waste time and energy on things that do not directly affect you.

Life is too short to worry or even emote over something that you have no direct knowledge of that was posted on a public message board.

njbmd's posts are either helpful or toolish. This is definitely one of the toolish ones. A few of the mods here seem to turn into mindless supporters of the system once they graduate med school or residency.

OP, that sounds like a crappy situation, and contrary to what njbmd says, venting about it is probably good for you. I doubt you can do anything about it now other than bear it in mind as a negative example for yourself as a physician.

 

[medstudent8614]

just in response to the post two above... I actually have direct knowledge of this and I've seen the abuse given to this individual in forms of documented email correspondences as well as the inappropriate conduct during meetings... it does affect me and I am very close to this situation....though this board is anonymous , I wouldn't want to divulge anything very specific.

However, I am aware or have a general idea of the physicians who have all been players in this whole ordeal....and will be the same physicians who will be involved in my training which is a bit disconcerting.

there has been a debate whether or not to make this public, to get to the root of the problem but have always debated this as doing so may have harmful consequences for said student (though said student would be the one in charge).

Even staff physicians have written to the dean concerning this situation and expressed their disgust with having to call the other physician's their colleagues. However, had never been a response....

main concern is for the person to be well but has been put through alot of unnecessary stress triggers from people who were supposed to be helpul.

 

[ArcGurren]

You don't know the entire situation and you only heard one side. Before you get your "kickers in a knot" about something that doesn't concern you and doesn't affect you, get the entire story first and then learn to ignore what doesn't affect you directly. If you want to have a long career ahead of you, don't waste time and energy on things that do not directly affect you.

Life is too short to worry or even emote over something that you have no direct knowledge of that was posted on a public message board.

... He KNOWS the person. Talk about a jerkoffish post

 

[Rendar5]

... He KNOWS the person. Talk about a jerkoffish post

or is the person. he sees confidential e-mails and doesn't know but sees what happens in private meetings?

I've been extreeeeeeeeeeemely close to people in such situations and I never had such personal knowledge of all the events surrounding their situations.

And yes, what happened was inappropriate. What would have been appropriate is if all of this were to occur in a private setting. And the psych rotation should have occured at a separate site if at all possible. It's inappropriate to mix patient and work environments.

OP, if you really are truly not this person, then I think you're a bit too close to the action and need to step back several paces. This is not information you should be privy to and it's uncalled for for this person to be sharing such details with you in the current setting.

 

[45408]

OP, if you really are truly not this person, then I think you're a bit too close to the action and need to step back several paces. This is not information you should be privy to and it's uncalled for for this person to be sharing such details with you in the current setting.

Why? It might be his/her significant other or sibling. Or close confidant. I don't see how you know that s/he "shouldn't" know this kind of information.

 

[45408]

You don't know the entire situation and you only heard one side. Before you get your "kickers in a knot" about something that doesn't concern you and doesn't affect you, get the entire story first and then learn to ignore what doesn't affect you directly. If you want to have a long career ahead of you, don't waste time and energy on things that do not directly affect you.

How do you know this?

 

[DrBowtie]

I know at my school they have a specific mental health faculty set aside for the use of medical students who are not involved with rotation sites thus no conflict of interest and are never grading students. I guess I figured that would be the norm.

I think it was poor on the part of the school to not be able to find an alternate rotation site if the person notified them in advance of their prior care at their scheduled site.

I'll leave any judgement of the physicians out of it without details, but I think the school administration probably needs to change a few policies.

 

[aggie08]

Gosh. Why are people so dang mean on this message board sometimes? I don't get it.

Anyway, OP - I agree that the situation would upset me as well. Just because your friend is a student does not mean he/she doesn't deserve their patient privacy to be protected. I would absolutely think that being treated by your student peers in this situation would be unethical. If I was in that position I would be talking to the higher-ups to figure out how situations like that could be avoided in the future.

No different than a girl in my class who just gave birth - I'm sure she didn't want any of us standing around while she was in labor "learning about the process and how to treat the patient."

 

[medical geek5]

I think it IS appropriate to protect the patient,even if it's not your patient...at least in this highly unethical situation. I would go to even higher-ups although anonymously and have them launch an investigation. They should have HEAVY USAGE of IT's services to see who accessed this person's medical (or other)information without a "need to know". The apathy (i.e. leave it alone if it doesn't concern you,etc...)and complacency with which one regards the violation of another especially in a field so sensitive as psychiatry, is very disturbing.

 

[medical geek5]

IT=info technology(computers,etc.). Hope I didn't offend anyone w/this clarification,some may not know why I said "IT".

 

[wholeheartedly]

That really sounds like a mess. I don't see that flying at the hospitals I've worked at. I'm not a med student where I am now so I'm not 100% positive, but I believe they have both separate primary care and psych physicians for the students and residents and any employee caught opening someone's chart without a good reason is dealt with quickly, usually by getting the boot.

I do think that sort of thing concerns everyone. First, it makes the department as a whole look unprofessional and sets a bad example for trainees. Second it's going to deter other students from seeking mental health assistance if they need it.

 

[Rendar5]

Why? It might be his/her significant other or sibling. Or close confidant. I don't see how you know that s/he "shouldn't" know this kind of information.

because he "sees" what happens at confidential meetings. I had a significant other in the past who had to deal with this stuff and I never got to know the visceral emotions or get direct knowledge of the content of meetings, just indirect knowledge based on what I was told, however accurate it was.

So if I am wrong, the only other option is that the OP is too connected to this whole thing and needs to take a step back for his own mental health. Not saying he shoudln't support the person in this case, saying the degree to which he is involved is a bit unhealthy for him. Because in my own personal experience, being one step removed from the process was hugely taxing and could have easily led to a personal breakdown, and her situation was a lot less severe than what the OP describes.

 

[medstudent8614]

hey just to respond ..

yeah i am very close to the situation, it is not me but still being an anonymous forum, wouldnt want to be so specific.

information gained from it was when said poster could include people to come along ... a type of health program that is given when such instances have occurred.... though it's a real shame that extra stress has been created for nothing... case in example ... .

imagine you are studying for one of your rotation exams, focused on everything then a person from this type of program with no relevant background information calls and says to said student that ... oh i see you cannot complete your call so you will not be able to graduate....

and this was false info as well given to said student ...and i mean in that condition ...there are alot of other bs that the student has gone through but i too want to respect all matters ... though a relapse has come in effect , which really upset me...due to alot of inappropriate stress triggers..

we want said student to become well and felt that bringing up all these issues before higher up individuals (which was done in a way) would just trigger something due to emotion and better to not think about that ... but it has been a battle and not doing anything just proves to be as ineffective but ... i don't know if it's a david vs goliath ordeal as the negative conduct and inappropriate comments have come from those higher up...

anyway , even for me this topic is hard to talk about to other people to protect the individual , i have become more clear about mental health from all of this experience and have the ability to understand others in these situations , though i fon't think one could ever fully understand if one wasn't the person itself. it's just a tough situation all together right now with all that has happened and would not want anyone else to be put through it!

 

[Miss July]

For comparison, I don't suppose they'd be prevented from working on a ICU where they were inpatient? Dinosaurs perpetuate discrimination because they don't know better and it's our responsibility to change this for the future. You can always submit a complaint anonymously to the ethics board of your university.

 

[turkeyjerky]

You don't know the entire situation and you only heard one side. Before you get your "kickers in a knot" about something that doesn't concern you and doesn't affect you, get the entire story first and then learn to ignore what doesn't affect you directly. If you want to have a long career ahead of you, don't waste time and energy on things that do not directly affect you.

Life is too short to worry or even emote over something that you have no direct knowledge of that was posted on a public message board.

Wow. Just wow.

I know at my school they have a specific mental health faculty set aside for the use of medical students who are not involved with rotation sites thus no conflict of interest and are never grading students. I guess I figured that would be the norm.

I think it was poor on the part of the school to not be able to find an alternate rotation site if the person notified them in advance of their prior care at their scheduled site.

I'll leave any judgement of the physicians out of it without details, but I think the school administration probably needs to change a few policies.

I guess that's a good policy, but I'm a little concerned that your school has whole psych ward set aside for med students. I think you guys could use a lil' root cause analysis.

/end hijack