Time Article: "Are You Turning Your Child Into A Wimp?"

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Therapist4Chnge

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I stumbled across this article and I thought it'd be interesting to kick around.

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Are You Turning Your Child Into a Wimp?

Monday, Jun. 23, 2008 By ANDREA SACHS

Are American parents smothering their children? Hara Estroff Marano, an editor-at-large at Psychology Today magazine and the grandmother of three small children, is convinced that they are. In her provocative new book, A Nation of Wimps: The High Cost of Invasive Parenting (Broadway), she writes, "Behold the wholly sanitized childhood, without skinned knees or the occasional C in history! Kids need to learn that you need to feel bad sometimes. We learn through experience, and we learn especially through bad experiences. Through disappointment and failure we learn how to cope." TIME senior reporter Andrea Sachs spoke with Marano:

TIME: How did you become interested in this subject?
HARA ESTROFF MARANO: I had done intensive reporting on what I call the crisis on the campus. Why were college kids breaking down now in record numbers? Genetically they're not different. My kids had gone to college not long before. This was not a problem when they went to school. So I began looking at why, and I began talking to everyone on the front lines. There were hundreds and hundreds of people who were treating these kids, and they all said the same thing: these kids lack coping skills because they've not been allowed to fully function. They are the products of parental anxiety and all the lumps and bumps have been taken out of life for them, so they have no idea how to manage the normal vicissitudes of life.


Why has that occurred?
The world has changed on our watch. I didn't grow up knowing how to use a computer. So that instrument alone is highly symbolic that the world has changed. It's very fast, very dynamic, very fluid. A kid in Bangalore can come up with a program that could make Microsoft obsolete in two years. This is scary. This makes for great uncertainty. So what we're really worried about is the success of our kids. That's why we push them to achieve. And that's why we're focused on the Harvard, Yale, Princeton brand-name education. In a world of uncertainty, a brand name carries some cachet and it's the closest thing you can get to a guarantee of some kind of success or achievement.

You consider medicating kids with drugs like Ritalin over-parenting.
Parents go out of their way to have their kids declared defective so that they can get the drug and so that they can also have "accommodations." This is a big deal. It has been going on for five or seven years now. Parents go out of their way and spend fortunes. Neuropsychologists do the testing. It's a huge business. "Accommodations" is not an informal word. It's a formal thing that schools do. Almost all of the accommodations are centered around prolonging the test time the kids have. It's no longer something that gets marked on your record. So colleges don't know if you had twice the time to take your SATs. That's why parents find it so highly desirable. But in the course of doing it, they have their kids tested to find some little quirk, some little vulnerability� And that's a measure of parental anxiety. And the parental anxiety is willing to put a negative label on kids. That's really something very new. You don't boast your strengths. You boast your weaknesses.

You write about the importance of play and how it's not valued to the degree it should be.
Right. It's so counterintuitive. Play builds brains and gives children the ability to impose self-control and creates within brain circuitry the ability to pay attention. When you look at kids playing, adults see it as a waste of time. They have no clue what play does. Vigorous social play stimulates the growth of brain cells in the executive portion of the brain in the frontal cortex, and that lays the foundation for the circuitry of self-regulation, which is what you need to pay attention when you're at school. I'll just give you a very, very clear little example. We're talking about free play, not play that's monitored by adults. Because we know that when the adults are near kids, kids change what they talk about and change the content of their play. We've known that for a long time. But just picture two little kids in free play. They're inventing what they're going to do. Okay, we're going to play house. You're going to be the doggie and I'm going to be the mommy. So these kids, what are they doing? They're creating the rules that they then agree to subordinate their impulses to. I mean, that's extraordinarily powerful. But that doesn't hit you in the face when you see kids playing. It looks like, oh, we could use this time for workbook work.

Are parents over-involved in kids' sports?
Oh, absolutely. There is enormous difficulty of getting referees these days. Referees, especially in youth sports, are either paid minimally or are not paid at all. It's something they've done for the love of the sport. I wrote a piece about this, and the referee organization contacted me. They can't get referees because the referees now have to put up with the abuse of the parents and they just don't want to do it. It's not worth it to them. Parents push their kids to the point of... abuse. You have eight-year-old kids who have injuries that grown athletes, professional athletes don't get until their thirties or forties. Overuse injuries, repetitive strain injuries. That's a clear reflection of parental pushing of kids, and it's so wrong for so many reasons. Kids' bodies can't support that. Their bones are growing. It's the adult values, the adult psychological needs that are being met, not the kids' developmental needs.

There was recently an outcry in New York City when a journalist wrote about letting her son go on the subway at nine years old. What's your opinion about that?
You know, the kid was giving every sign in the world that he was ready. Here's the thing: What's the goal of raising kids? It's to produce an independent, autonomous adult, right? It doesn't happen overnight. There's a long march towards independence, and it begins at birth. Parents have to continually let out the leash. You quietly from the sidelines monitor your kids, see whether they're ready for the next step. That kid was giving every sign that he was ready for the next step.

But aren't deviant adults also ready to pounce?
I think the problem now is that the adults just totally unleash their anxieties on their children. There was a time not very long ago when you had the same worries. You just took the leap of trust, a very important word. You trusted your child to take the next step of growth. And I think it's really important because society is founded on trust. That's the glue of society, of culture, the glue of intimate relationships.

Don't urban parents need to be more protective of their children?
It could be argued that it's the other way around. There are many more people around to see if there is something untoward. Why would urban parents need to be more protective? My older son took the subway when he was about nine or ten years old by himself. We were sitting at the dinner table one night and we were talking. He said, "I've figured out that if it ever looks like there's going to be trouble on the subway, I act like I'm a little bit crazy and no one goes near me. Okay?" This is just a classic case of problem-solving which kids can do if they're given some lumps and bumps to cut their teeth on. He figured that out by himself.

But you see stories all the time on TV about the sexual abuse of kids.
That is so out of proportion to the reality. Parents think I'm a child molester when I say it, but the Department of Justice data for the last fifteen years is very clear on the subject. As parental hysteria has escalated due to anxieties, the actual data show that this is not a legitimate fear. When you look at the Department of Justice data, this is just not a major phenomenon. You've got to know the kids are in far more danger inside the home than outside the home. Stepfathers are a big problem. Sexual abuse happens in the home.

What is your main advice for parents?
One, back off and give kids some credit and some leeway to demonstrate their competence. Two, let kids play freely without monitoring. Three, eat dinner together at least five nights a week: aside from the sense of cohesiveness, it gives all that security that is the breeding ground for success. No matter where you are on the socioeconomic spectrum, it is more correlated with school adjustment and achievement than any other single thing that parents can do.
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I highlighted two things in particular that stuck out, but I thought it was an interesting read in general....not because I agree with everything, but because this is what the masses are reading and taking in as fact.
 
Yeah... it'd be nice if she could back up her assertions. The only point that she covered pretty well was free play being good for a child's brain.

And I think there's a happy medium between coddling your kid and letting them go on the subway by themselves. My sister wouldn't even take the subway at night, and she's in her late 20s.
 
Yeah... it'd be nice if she could back up her assertions. The only point that she covered pretty well was free play being good for a child's brain.

And I think there's a happy medium between coddling your kid and letting them go on the subway by themselves. My sister wouldn't even take the subway at night, and she's in her late 20s.

Back it up? Step outside in real life. Even the wall street journal recently had an article how employers today don’t know what to do with the more recent crop of college graduates. They aren’t able to handle any criticism, and they need constant praise to inflate their self-esteem. Many large employers have even begun hiring consultants to help advise on how to deal with the new set of young adults entering the workforce- commonly referred to as “the most praised generation”
 
parto it is interesting that you bring that up....there was a great article in Fortune/Forbes in the past year or so on that exact issue. It seems like there is so much more baggage that comes a long now. What makes it particularly challenging is the inter-generational relationship issues that arise from professionals stay in the workforce longer, and how the needs of the various groups can vary greatly.
 
It is funny how people can view the same issue so differently. I defintely agree that many kids, let it be my age (even though they are neccessarily kids anymore) or younger ones are raised by their parents to become successfully INdependent and unable to cope with challenges that I never thought to be an issue.

Even though people like to think that crime rates in western europe are so much less I can assure that this isn't true. there are just as many rapists and kidnappers in my homecountry as here. However, (and that's just my personal opinion) I virtually don't know any parents who drove their kids to school because it was to dangerous. I lived in a midsize city (with a population of 600.000) and it would have never crossed my parents' minds to not let me walk to the public bus stop 1 mile away by myself, ride the bus for 30 minutes into the city center where my school was located...and all that at age 6. My sister has two kids and when she has to run some errands she leaves her 8 year old daughter alone to watch her 2 year old sister, of course not without practicing to call her cell phone and to dial 911.
Having grown up with my parents raising me to become able to handle situations by myself I was SHOCKED that 8 year olds have to be walked to a school that I could see from the house because "something could happen". Teenagers need to be driven to their friends because parents are worried that they can't handle the 3 mile bike ride to their friend's house, especally when a major road is involved.

well, long story short: I feel that kids are way to underestimated. oviously one can't let a 9 year ride the subway without preparing them (and I surely would let them do it at night -which I think wasn't the point here) they are surely capable to take care of themselves. and especially now that every kids has a cell phone anyway it really should not be a big deal.

Obviusly some kind of middle gorund needs to befound but being treated like a baby surely does not help anyone and only leads to spoiled and insecure individuals who cannot handle anything because theynever had to take any reponsibility.
But I realize that it would be very difficult for parents to liberate themselves from thoughts that they need to "protect" their little baby.


just my 2 cents
 
Interesting article...and comments.
I agree that society today is more dangerous then say when we or our parents were growing up. However, that said...I definitely agree that parents need to loosen up with their kids a little bit. I was raised by very strict, conservative, overprotective parents. And even they let me ride my bike to school and around the neighborhood. In fact, they often Refused to give me a ride to school in the mornings! Even when it was snowing and I had to lug a heavy instrument case that was almost as big as me and a backpack that was full of at least three books at all times (I was a nerd from the beginning). haha That parents will not let their children walk to school or play in the neighborhood says a lot. If they do not trust their children, or let them make choices on their own, these kids will never become fully independent. On the flip side, children need to be disciplined, which I believe is half the problem. Children who are coddled, kept inside with mommy, and never disciplined turn into spoiled little brats who have difficulty functioning as a member of society. I have seen it plenty of times before (my cousins for example lol). I saw a young boy in the store who threw a screaming fit because he could not have something and his mom was practically begging him to behave - I am sure he eventually got the candy bar or whatever it was he wanted - but not once did she scold him, even though he was rolling on the floor screaming and shouting at his mom. :scared: And who doesn't see scenes like this from day to day?

No freedom no discipline is not a good combo. If you make too many rules, the kids will be sure to break them (I know I did, rules are made to be broken, right? 😉). This is often where you run into the trouble makers and the "good kids gone bad" i.e. the stereotypical Christian Schoolgirl who turns into a partier and gets hooked on drugs. Rebellion. Parents need to learn to trust their kids. If you teach them good values and let them make good choices, you can then "let them go" knowing you have done all you can and it is up to them to make their own choices. If they are not allowed to make and learn from their own mistakes they will never learn to make good decisions, or any decisions for that matter, for themselves, and will not grow. If you teach them to make good choices, have good values, whatever your definition of good values may be, and fend for themselves, they will leave home confident and prepared rather then coddled and dependent.
 
As a TA we are told to always give "sandwich comments." I mean, its nice and alll, but honestly, get real! Of course comments should be constructive and non-personal, but the real world doesn't not give you "sandwich comments." In the real world people are busy, and if you are F'ing up, they are not gonna sit there and ponder all your postive qualities while they tell you what your F'ing up on.........:laugh:
 
Ok, I'm obviously out of the loop. Sandwich comments?
 
Back it up? Step outside in real life. Even the wall street journal recently had an article how employers today don’t know what to do with the more recent crop of college graduates. They aren’t able to handle any criticism, and they need constant praise to inflate their self-esteem. Many large employers have even begun hiring consultants to help advise on how to deal with the new set of young adults entering the workforce- commonly referred to as “the most praised generation”

I just mean that it would be nice if she could cite some studies or actual research instead of personal experience.
 
For a good example, see the Family Guy episode where Brian works for Stewy at Stewy's make belief office/company...:laugh: In general, it means you start with something good or a compliment, then give a criticism, then end with another good comment or compliment. The criticisms get "sandwiched", so to speak, in between postive things.
 
I just mean that it would be nice if she could cite some studies or actual research instead of personal experience.

How do you know she doesn’t? Its an interview, not a college paper. If she were discussing something that seemed to defy conventional wisdom then perhaps it would be appropriate to cite some research during the interview. However, what she is saying is plainly apparent to anyone who interacts with teens or young adults, that no one is really questioning her factual assertions (her opinions on the matter, on the other hand, are up for debate).
 
For a good example, see the Family Guy episode where Brian works for Stewy at Stewy's make belief office/company...:laugh: In general, it means you start with something good or a compliment, then give a criticism, then end with another good comment or compliment. The criticisms get "sandwiched", so to speak, in between postive things.


Ah yes, great episode 😀

Something good... something good... You look like SNOOPY and it makes me smile... but you have smelly dog farts.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
Yes, personally I find sandwich comments to be hoky and babyish. And it makes me feel like I am in grade school or something when someone does it to me. I'm also not sure its good, because I think it can indeed make you soft. The real world doesn't compliment you for the things you need to improve on, and you shouln't expect it to. I also find that they can produce superficiality between people in working relationships, namely because some people simply dont have alot of stegnths in their work at certain times in their trianing and you end up taking time and searching for things and/or giving compliments that are either irrelavant to the subject, or just plain false. Personally, I dont like to be placated, just give it to me staright Doc...know what I mean?
 
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How do you know she doesn’t? Its an interview, not a college paper. If she were discussing something that seemed to defy conventional wisdom then perhaps it would be appropriate to cite some research during the interview. However, what she is saying is plainly apparent to anyone who interacts with teens or young adults, that no one is really questioning her factual assertions (her opinions on the matter, on the other hand, are up for debate).

That's what I meant, her opinions. Sure, kids today are more entitled, but I'd like to see more support that her ideas would help them.

I'm just a little wary because it seems like pop psych to me.
 
I've been saying this since I was old enough to be aware of my surroundings (middle school I think?).

If it weren't for the fact that I have precisely zero desire to work with kids, this would likely be my research area. In fact, perhaps those two concepts are related😉

Frankly, I find the whole culture ridiculous these days. School is too hard? That's not the kids fault, we should make school easier so everyone gets an A. On the subject of TV references, does anyone remember the Simpsons episode where Bart starts at a new school, they're playing musical chairs, and there's about 5 chairs for every kid? Its becoming reality. I remember the outcry in NY over the fact that they tried to implement a state-wide English exam to make sure we weren't handing out high school diplomas to people who couldn't read. How dare they? That trend has gotten passed on to colleges too, unfortunately. Half my undergrad classes were just freakin embarassing to sit through.

I'll say that in the 3 years I spent teaching kids tennis, the most maladjusted kids were the ones who had stay-at-home moms/dads who spent every waking second hovering over their children. They were the ones who freaked out every time they didn't win. They were the ones misbehaving, clawing for my attention, the ones whose heart would forget to beat without a constant reminder. Yet for whatever reason our society has deemed it a "positive" for parents to spend that much time with their kids. Obviously you don't want to throw them into the woods and hope for the best, but there's a middle ground there. Your kids should feel "bad" sometimes. They need to learn how to deal with it.

I don't have time to go into more details (not that anyone wants to hear me ranting for another 100 pages or so), but suffice it to say I strongly disagree with the direction society seems to be going. Kids expect to be coddled, and we're getting to the point where adults are expecting it as well, and are perfectly willing to sue someone because someone called them out on their incompetence.
 
This is a really interesting article. I don't know the research behind it so I'll have to take the author at her word (and I believe it-- and by the way, I've never seen a citation in Time magazine-- it's written for laypeople).

I heard something on NPR recently where they interviewed someone who talked about Americans and overestimation of risk. He gave the example of how after 9/11, Americans were terrified of flying, because they were so afraid of being victims of a terrorist attack. So, they decided to drive to get to the places where they would normally fly. The problem is that driving is much, much more dangerous than flying. Your chances of dying when you are driving are low, but that are HUGELY larger than your chance of dying when flying. As a result of people deciding to be safe by driving, the rates of traffic deaths spiked, while of course the rates of flying deaths on major airlines has been steady at zero since 2001. So, by doing what they thought was safer, people actually died. Those are real consequences of misunderstanding risk.

This is the same thing. People are so damn paranoid that there's a world of bad guys out to get children. In fact, there are very few bad guys out there. Your child's chance of getting abducted or molested by a stranger is very close to zero. As the author points out, your child's chances of being abducted by your ex-spouse or molested by your brother are much, much higher-- but that isn't something that people think about-- maybe because they don't see it on the news (the availability heuristic) or because the think "no one I know about could ever do that," just like they may think "I'm a safe driver, so I don't have to worry about getting in a crash-- but who knows about that pilot.") And once again, these aren't situations where erring on the side of caution is an innocuous choice-- there are real negative consequences here. Children are developing stunted senses of independence. Kids are being kept inside where it's "safe," and as a result we have an epidemic of childhood obesity, which is actually does kill. Perhaps worst of all is this culture of fear. I just read this article on cnn.com about whether young kids could have cell phones, and it had a whole paragraph about whether parents should worry about whether having a cell phone will leave your child at risk for pedophiles.

And cara susanna, unless your sister lives in some terribly dangerous area, she's being a wimp. Subways are incredibly safe-- they are full of vigilant people and have emergency notification systems and are usually swimming with cops.
 
I heard something on NPR recently where they interviewed someone who talked about Americans and overestimation of risk.

I attended a presentation by a research pharmacist a couple years ago that touched on the unintended consequences of adding the black box warning on SSRI's for an increased risk for suicidal ideations in kids. Once word came out about the warning (and after the official warning) there was a large D/C of SSRI's for kids, and guess what happened......the kids became more depressed and made attempts, which ultimately made the total number of attempts increase. Because of an over-estimation of risk, there was actually more harm done.
 
She lived in downtown Chicago, so I dunno.

I guess it depends on which line of the subway we're talking about 🙂 I've regularly ridden the subway in Chicago since 1995, even at 3 am. Usually at that hour you have to worry more about vomit than violence. I've seen the strangest things on the line I take to work in the middle of the afternoon/early evening. And those usually involve someone on something with their junk hanging out for the world to see. I can only remember one time where I truly felt my safety may be in question. I simply got up and moved to another car. I also try to ride in the first car with the train operator at off hours. So your sister was probably being overly cautious. But I tend to be on the opposite end of the continuum.

As for the OP, the article resonates with a lot of what I think about current U.S. society. It is "pop psychology" in that it's published in Time magazine, but that's the nature of most psychological information published in mainstream press. Even if they are talking about a specific study, it's typically summarized in simpler (and often more sensationalized) terms. And I agree, that's a downside to this type of article.

But I think the content of the discussion is relevant, because we do see these things happening all around us. The reason we're turning our children into wimps is because it seems like most of our society deep down is afraid. It's reflected in our behaviors and over-compensation to appear "tough." It's reflected in the percentage of Americans on Benzos or other anxiety meds. And (the root of most of this in my opinion) it's all over the media. What's going to kill me today? I haven't been able to stomach watching the news for about 7 years.

Anyone know if eggs are in or out this year?
 
I just mean that it would be nice if she could cite some studies or actual research instead of personal experience.

I agree. And do we actually think that the description that the article gives of kids is talking about ALL kids from ALL backgrounds, socioeconomic statuses, etc.? It's an overgeneralization that seems like a typical "kids these days" rant. And it sounds to me like the author is primarily referencing upper middle class to upper class white kids.
 
This is really interesting.

I have noticed that there are an incredible amount of kids with anxiety disorders... and they seem a bit coddled. But who knows what came first, the anxiety or the coddling. There are parents who will flat out tell you they want their child to have full-time supervision at school just because they're a bit anxious.

That said, I don't think it comes from a malicious place, I just think it's part of that whole "I want my kids to have a better childhood than I did" kind of mentality.

Anyway, about the subway thing... I'm not a wimp, I love big cities and I've met rapists and murderers and never had a problem at work so I'm not really intimidated by a lot of people. However, hanging out with those people when they're incarcerated and riding a subway in the middle of the night is a completely different thing. As a woman by myself I'd be worried about GETTING to the subway and then walking wherever I'm going afterwards. Being the victim of a crime is as simple as being in the wrong place at the wrong time and I think avoiding those situations doesn't make you a wimp, it means you're unfortunately having to adjust to the possible consequences of being a single female walking by herself at night.
 
I agree. And do we actually think that the description that the article gives of kids is talking about ALL kids from ALL backgrounds, socioeconomic statuses, etc.? It's an overgeneralization that seems like a typical "kids these days" rant. And it sounds to me like the author is primarily referencing upper middle class to upper class white kids.

Oh! I was gonna say that. I'm working with (primarily) really low SES Aboriginal kids and I think if the author spent maybe five minutes with them she'd probably have to write another article about how kids need more coddling, haha.
 
I agree. And do we actually think that the description that the article gives of kids is talking about ALL kids from ALL backgrounds, socioeconomic statuses, etc.? It's an overgeneralization that seems like a typical "kids these days" rant. And it sounds to me like the author is primarily referencing upper middle class to upper class white kids.

I think people here get so involved in their school studies that they forget that they are reading a magazine, not an academic journal. Now, if this authors books doesn’t cite any research or studies that would be problematic, but magazines never really cite anything, especially in an interview. It would make for a more cumbersome and awkward read, not what magazines are aiming for.
 
Well, I don't really know Chicago, but there certainly are some dangerous parts at night. However, that risk should not be diffused across the whole city, which I think is largely safe. Anyway, the question was never if it was safe to send a 10 year old alone on the subway in South Chicago in the dead of the night. The question was whether it's safe to send a 10 year old alone on the subway on a route he knows well in midtown Manhattan in broad daylight.

As for being a woman alone in a city... you know, when I was in college, I used to be incredibly nervous every time I walked from the library to my apartment in the middle of the night. I had this idea that someone was going to jump out of the bushes of my college campus and rape or murder me. I marched in Take Back the Night and railed about the injustice of it all. And then I realized that it's true that plenty of college women are raped-- scarily many-- but most are by their friends, dates, or drunken fratboys. And that maybe the perception that women are constantly being stalked by bad guys in alleyways is an idea that doesn't really serve us well, given how much it scares us and keeps us submissive.

I think it's interesting that when people overestimate the risk of something, it usually involves purely evil bad guys-- pedophiles, terrorists, rapists, murderers-- who do evil for the sake of being evil, a la Lord Voldemort. Or it involves something totally catastrophic where we have no control-- plane crashes, etc.
 
And then I realized that it's true that plenty of college women are raped-- scarily many-- but most are by their friends, dates, or drunken fratboys. And that maybe the perception that women are constantly being stalked by bad guys in alleyways is an idea that doesn't really serve us well, given how much it scares us and keeps us submissive.

That's a good point, and I've certainly walked through my share of dark places without anything bad ever happening to me.

But I've also read more than a few police reports of random acts of violence against women (and men for that matter) by complete strangers... which probably means if I ever have a kid he/she will be the most sheltered wimp ever.
 
When we went to the sex offenders unit at our local prison, we got to talk to three sex offenders. Two were rapists. When asked how they had chosen their victim, they both said essentially the same thing: It was at night, and she was alone.

I know that it's more likely that the person will be someone you know, but the risk is still out there. You should show some level of caution.
 
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I think people here get so involved in their school studies that they forget that they are reading a magazine, not an academic journal. Now, if this authors books doesn’t cite any research or studies that would be problematic, but magazines never really cite anything, especially in an interview. It would make for a more cumbersome and awkward read, not what magazines are aiming for.

I don't think anywhere is surprised a Time magazine article doesn't have 10 pages of references at the end. Their point just seems to be that we can't take any of what was said at face value until we see the science behind this.

I could be wrong, but that's how I'm interpreting it anyways. Obviously Time is not overly concerned with facts, that just goes with the territory. I think people are just anxious to see evidence first before forming an opinion on the matter.
 
Oh! I was gonna say that. I'm working with (primarily) really low SES Aboriginal kids and I think if the author spent maybe five minutes with them she'd probably have to write another article about how kids need more coddling, haha.


I second that. I commute about 60 miles to work everyday from a medium-size urban area to a verrry tiny rural community. The differences in rearing practices are drastically different from where I live vs. where I work. Case in point, as I drive through the city, I see parents holding their children's hands on the way to school, kids sitting on porches as they watch their parents mow yards, children being supervised at parks, etc. However, as I get into rural territory, I see kids between the ages of 8-12 or so plowing fields in commercial/industrial tractors, bailing hay, handling potentially dangerous power equipment, tinkering on automobiles, etc. I don't think these kids are examples of over coddling by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I think the author would describe these kids as the golden mean. If she'd take the time to visit the countryside, I think she, as RayneeDeigh suggested, would need to revise her work.
 
Well, funny I should run across this thread today...I read a section in the Michael Chrichton book "Next" that closely relates.

He cites this pop psych magazine article making the assertion that young adults today never grow up mainly because of all the formal education they're getting. They are forced to sustain a role of receptiveness (submission), dependence, and delayed maturity. They don't get married at 16 anymore and go plow the field and go off to war. They study. Thus, they never shed their peter (or petra) pan hats. And have you noticed some of the most childlike people around are the ones with 6 or 7 degrees hanging all over the place?

This article in the book shocked me because I knew it was talking about me, and I had never had this particular insight. It's true, I'm 29, not married, never had a career type job, and my two best friends are 20 and 21. Now, I'm not a wimp (my friends might debate that) but I'm not grown up either.

The concept of "correlation doesn't imply causation" has been pounded into me, however, so I realize that maybe people who choose to retain their sense of childlike wonder and curiousity, eschewing the boring grown up grind, are the ones drawn to higher education. It's a chicken or egg problem.
 
Well, funny I should run across this thread today...I read a section in the Michael Chrichton book "Next" that closely relates.

He cites this pop psych magazine article making the assertion that young adults today never grow up mainly because of all the formal education they're getting. They are forced to sustain a role of receptiveness (submission), dependence, and delayed maturity. They don't get married at 16 anymore and go plow the field and go off to war. They study.

I'll have to disagree with Mr. Chrichton on this one. What exactly is so mature about getting married right after high school? Why is studying a subject in depth less "adult" than working in a field? It kinda reminds me of the whole "middle America is the real America" mentality.
 
What? Crichton wrong about anything? You know he wrote that book "State of Fear" a few years back, in which he calls into question the likelihood that we are really experiencing global warming.

Well, ok, maybe he is going to wrong about that one 😳

I can understand your point...I mean who is to say what is better? To delay the "normal" stages a life a little while while you advance your knowledge and job outlook OR getting married and having some younguns real quick to help you hoe the cotton. Most of the people on the forum I'm sure would take your side (since that's the path most have decided on, and as such will rationalize that their choice as being the right one). And admittedly, looks like I've avoided entering the "grown-up" world too, but I've gotta say, sometimes I wonder how much happier I'd be if I just lived like the Amish. Wake up, do your chores, subsist on the fruits of your labor, rock on the porch at dusk, and have a deep sense of connectedness to the community.

I may have strayed from the original topic slightly here. woooops
 
What? Crichton wrong about anything? You know he wrote that book "State of Fear" a few years back, in which he calls into question the likelihood that we are really experiencing global warming.

Well, ok, maybe he is going to wrong about that one 😳

🙂

Well, there are mature reasons for getting married and having kids and there are immature reasons for doing the exact same. So, marital status doesn't provide any direct insight into maturity level, in my opinion anyway. There are a lot of other variables and interactions to contend with.
 
The concept of "correlation doesn't imply causation" has been pounded into me, however, so I realize that maybe people who choose to retain their sense of childlike wonder and curiousity, eschewing the boring grown up grind, are the ones drawn to higher education. It's a chicken or egg problem.

Having spent 7 years in the "real world" I can say that I prefer my current higher education regression to childlike wonder and curiosity. I still come home tired, but instead of angry I feel fulfilled and content. I don't look ahead at my future with this question of "WTF am I doing with my life?"

Sometimes I wonder how much happier I'd be if I just lived like the Amish. Wake up, do your chores, subsist on the fruits of your labor, rock on the porch at dusk, and have a deep sense of connectedness to the community.

I'm with you on that thought. There are ads on the train here in Chicago for Dentyne gum that basically tell people to put down their crackberry, close their browser, etc. and actually spend time face to face with people. I think there's a bit of a backlash brewing toward what has become of the American worker. At least I tell myself that people are coming to their senses. A little.
 
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