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I keep hearing third year is all about kissing ass to get honors, so how do I get better at this?
Tips for kissing ass
- Thread starter sliceofbread136
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I keep hearing third year is all about kissing ass to get honors, so how do I get better at this?
D
deleted245139
Work hard
Be interested
Show up prepared/well read
If someone trys to send you home, offer to stay ONCE, no more... 9/10 times they are genuinely trying to get you a break
Don't be a douche
This is all you need.
Be interested
Show up prepared/well read
If someone trys to send you home, offer to stay ONCE, no more... 9/10 times they are genuinely trying to get you a break
Don't be a douche
This is all you need.
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There might be classes near you?
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There might be classes near you?
Wow your school really goes all out. My school doesn't use simulated feces.
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Don't think about it as kissing ass and think about it as being interested and wanting to help. It shows. Those who kiss ass are often obvious.
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Make sure your hair looks good to nice (If you're a guy then keep your face shaved or trimmed). Make sure your skin doesn't look scary - no bad acne, or if you look horrible without some makeup, then at least wear some light foundation. Don't "look" tired.
Keep a running list which you keep for yourself of ALL the patients you see on that clerkship and what you exactly did. This is so at the end, if you might be accused of not seeing patients or not doing anything on the rotation, you have proof for your protection.
Always be on time. Residents talk even though students don't do anything that matters. Set up 3 alarms and get there on-time if not early. Never be late. It's an easy professionalism demerit.
Never ever complain (out loud) about the rotation. Leave that for home when you leave the hospital - you'll be amazed what gets back to residents/attendings. Don't be sarcastic even if the person clearly deserves it.
Always act interested, but not exceedingly overenthusiastic. Never act bored or view things as scut, even if it obviously is.
Don't tell the rotation you're on what you really want to go into, but say that you're still exploring since you haven't taken many rotations so far.
When you're rounding, make check mark box lists for each patient on the team, even the ones that aren't yours, on the tasks that need to be done. It keeps you awake and from zoning out, it keeps the entire team on track when rounds are over, and everyone will love you for it.
Near the end, bring in a baked goodies or coffee, but have everyone bring in something or make something. Don't leave your teammates in the dark. It will always be taken badly, no matter what your intention.
Make sure interns/residents know where you are at all times. If something is taking longer than usual, just send a text page so they know where you are.
Don't look tired or down. Don't yawn where it's obvious. Your intern/resident don't care about your shelf exam, so don't study in front of them thinking they'll care. They won't. Always have your textbook handy in case there truly is downtime.
When you're done with your tasks and volunteer for more work, make sure it's something you can actually do reliably - if you create more work, or your intern has to finish your work, then you don't get credit for volunteering - it's a "no good deed goes unpunished" thing at that point.
Keep a running list which you keep for yourself of ALL the patients you see on that clerkship and what you exactly did. This is so at the end, if you might be accused of not seeing patients or not doing anything on the rotation, you have proof for your protection.
Always be on time. Residents talk even though students don't do anything that matters. Set up 3 alarms and get there on-time if not early. Never be late. It's an easy professionalism demerit.
Never ever complain (out loud) about the rotation. Leave that for home when you leave the hospital - you'll be amazed what gets back to residents/attendings. Don't be sarcastic even if the person clearly deserves it.
Always act interested, but not exceedingly overenthusiastic. Never act bored or view things as scut, even if it obviously is.
Don't tell the rotation you're on what you really want to go into, but say that you're still exploring since you haven't taken many rotations so far.
When you're rounding, make check mark box lists for each patient on the team, even the ones that aren't yours, on the tasks that need to be done. It keeps you awake and from zoning out, it keeps the entire team on track when rounds are over, and everyone will love you for it.
Near the end, bring in a baked goodies or coffee, but have everyone bring in something or make something. Don't leave your teammates in the dark. It will always be taken badly, no matter what your intention.
Make sure interns/residents know where you are at all times. If something is taking longer than usual, just send a text page so they know where you are.
Don't look tired or down. Don't yawn where it's obvious. Your intern/resident don't care about your shelf exam, so don't study in front of them thinking they'll care. They won't. Always have your textbook handy in case there truly is downtime.
When you're done with your tasks and volunteer for more work, make sure it's something you can actually do reliably - if you create more work, or your intern has to finish your work, then you don't get credit for volunteering - it's a "no good deed goes unpunished" thing at that point.
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Lol, typical derm. Every single derm applicant in my med school had perfect skin.
Damn straight. Nothing says "I don't give a ****" like showing up late.
Agreed. Bitching always goes side to side, never up or down. This continues through residency.
True
Every time I hear this, I roll my eyes. Most med students have some idea what they want to go into (even if not 100%). I don't care. I'm here to help you learn something useful to you. Help me help you.
True, but also don't throw intern or fellow students under the bus by running the list on patients that aren't yours.
Just don't bring in anything, period. We know what you're doing. We're not idiots. If you decide to be that guy, be sure to tell all your fellow students. If you don't, then you'll really be that guy.
Protip: We always know where you are. Always. We're not idiots.
You can look tired or down. That's fine. Just don't bitch about it. We're working harder than you.
Eh. If a student wants to try something they're uncomfortable with (putting in lines, suturing, packing wounds, putting in Foley, small procedures, etc), I love when they volunteer. Gives an opportunity to teach. I don't get pissed at students for making a case go slightly longer or whatever. We're here to teach, and you're here to learn.
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Also, the perfect primer on being a good third year student is found on page 3 of Surgical Recall. The summary:
"A hammerhead is an individual who places his head to the ground and hammers through any and all obstacles to get a job done and then asks for more work. One who gives 110% and never complains. One who desires work."
Remember, kids, be a HIGH SPEED, LOW DRAG, HARDCORE HAMMERHEAD.
"A hammerhead is an individual who places his head to the ground and hammers through any and all obstacles to get a job done and then asks for more work. One who gives 110% and never complains. One who desires work."
Remember, kids, be a HIGH SPEED, LOW DRAG, HARDCORE HAMMERHEAD.
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Hey guys thanks for the great answers, will really be a big help in a few months
I'm normally a pessimistic, low energy person who shows up late and has bad skin so it seems I have a lot to improve on before 3rd year!
I'm normally a pessimistic, low energy person who shows up late and has bad skin so it seems I have a lot to improve on before 3rd year!
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I should correct somethings:
It's ok to volunteer for procedures like putting in lines, suturing, packing wounds, etc. (Good examples!), which you haven't done before, then say something beforehand like, "I never done this before, but I would like/love to learn." But. I'm referring more to doing an H&P, writing a note, etc. and then your intern asks why you didn't complete something.
On the residents knowing where you are thing, I'm talking about people running off during the day to study for the shelf, and then coming back with no explanation. OB is also bad because they're not going to get you when a delivery happens and if you're not there they can assume the worst. So even if they say go do something else, stay close to where the action is, because it can change quickly.
I think the not telling you what I want to go into thing can vary greatly by the person. ENT people won't care, obviously, since they've got it made and ENT is a small specialty.
I stand by the skin thing. Lol. We had one girl asked by an attending to the side if something was wrong. He assumed it because her hair was always kept in a ponytail or in a bun but was wet out of the shower, her skin was really pale w/o makeup, and when she was tired she had accentuated bags under her eyes. Probably not a huge problem for guys though.
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I dunno, I'd give it the benefit of the doubt. Some people are actually genuinely nice, you know.
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OP, you got some bad intel. Honors in 3rd year is not about kissing ass; it's a measure of how much people like you.
Nobody likes a kiss ass. Not even the person whose ass is being kissed.
People like hard working, happy, normal people who are enthusiastic and want both to learn and help the team.
See above posts for tips on how to do this.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Nobody likes a kiss ass. Not even the person whose ass is being kissed.
People like hard working, happy, normal people who are enthusiastic and want both to learn and help the team.
See above posts for tips on how to do this.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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I wish you were at my school. I can't tell you the number of times I'm like hey can I put in that line and the resident would be like oh yeah this is the perfect opportunity for a medical student. Then they go ahead and do it themselves. Worst ones are the people who just do things without explaining anything so I'm just sitting there trying to piece things together and not knowing what's going on. Yeah I read about the procedure or the operation but reading a textbook is completely different from having someone explain something to you clearly
"How about you watch me do this one and you can do the next one" x 10
God strike me down if I ever treat my own medical students the same way
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In that case, I shall give exactly three ****s and titrate from there.
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I think it's less about "kissing ass" and more about being pleasant and helpful. My tips:
-Find a way to be useful and do it. Yes, this will oftentimes mean scut depending upon the service and what's happening. I felt like a good chunk of my peds rotation was "setting up follow-up" a.k.a. scut. Despite that, though, it's important work that someone has to do, and the residents are often busy dealing with actual "issues" that you don't have to deal with.
-Take social cues and follow the behavior of residents that clearly know what they're doing. When I was on my sub-I, there was an M3 who recited complete presentations despite it being completely unnecessary. The attendings seldom stopped him, but it quickly became annoying and unnecessary. The other students seem to pick up on the fact that this was unnecessary. Little things like that can help endear you to the team (or at least prevent you from being annoying). Don't be overzealous and be the superhero M3.
-Be pleasant. Don't be weird. Show your personality. Be talkative. Hell, make jokes if it's appropriate. This can be hard to do initially but really, a lot of your superiors' general gestalt of you will be formed based on how pleasant (or not) you were. This can sometimes be harder to do because some residents and attendings have zero personality.
-Avoid being an obvious kiss-ass and deactivate tryhard mode. It's obvious and typically won't help you. Again, be useful, do what you can to make the day's work go smoother and you will likely do fine.
-Finally, express some degree of enthusiasm. At a minimum, this means showing up on time and being with your resident (or reachable) at all times until you're released. I found it helpful to try and find something to take away from a rotation that could serve me in the future even if I didn't care about the field all that much. If you don't care about the field, don't make that fact obvious. I don't think you need to be obnoxiously positive and chomping at the bit to do anything and everything, but accept offers to do things when they're given to you, ask questions, and take an interest in your patients. I found it helpful to try and imagine myself in the future and having random family members asking me basic general medical questions and being able to provide reasonable answers to them. Ridiculous, sure, but it provided me with some sense of "enthusiasm" or, at the very least, some interest in what was going on that I may not have otherwise had.
People aren't stupid and understand that more than likely you will not be going into the field that you are rotating in. You don't need to act as if you are. However, as extra labor you can make the work go more smoothly in most cases and take a load off of the residents' shoulders in addition to taking away something useful from the experience. If you're able to do that, then I think you've done the best you can. It might be helpful to directly ask the senior resident on your first day what you can do on a daily basis to help things move along.
-Find a way to be useful and do it. Yes, this will oftentimes mean scut depending upon the service and what's happening. I felt like a good chunk of my peds rotation was "setting up follow-up" a.k.a. scut. Despite that, though, it's important work that someone has to do, and the residents are often busy dealing with actual "issues" that you don't have to deal with.
-Take social cues and follow the behavior of residents that clearly know what they're doing. When I was on my sub-I, there was an M3 who recited complete presentations despite it being completely unnecessary. The attendings seldom stopped him, but it quickly became annoying and unnecessary. The other students seem to pick up on the fact that this was unnecessary. Little things like that can help endear you to the team (or at least prevent you from being annoying). Don't be overzealous and be the superhero M3.
-Be pleasant. Don't be weird. Show your personality. Be talkative. Hell, make jokes if it's appropriate. This can be hard to do initially but really, a lot of your superiors' general gestalt of you will be formed based on how pleasant (or not) you were. This can sometimes be harder to do because some residents and attendings have zero personality.
-Avoid being an obvious kiss-ass and deactivate tryhard mode. It's obvious and typically won't help you. Again, be useful, do what you can to make the day's work go smoother and you will likely do fine.
-Finally, express some degree of enthusiasm. At a minimum, this means showing up on time and being with your resident (or reachable) at all times until you're released. I found it helpful to try and find something to take away from a rotation that could serve me in the future even if I didn't care about the field all that much. If you don't care about the field, don't make that fact obvious. I don't think you need to be obnoxiously positive and chomping at the bit to do anything and everything, but accept offers to do things when they're given to you, ask questions, and take an interest in your patients. I found it helpful to try and imagine myself in the future and having random family members asking me basic general medical questions and being able to provide reasonable answers to them. Ridiculous, sure, but it provided me with some sense of "enthusiasm" or, at the very least, some interest in what was going on that I may not have otherwise had.
People aren't stupid and understand that more than likely you will not be going into the field that you are rotating in. You don't need to act as if you are. However, as extra labor you can make the work go more smoothly in most cases and take a load off of the residents' shoulders in addition to taking away something useful from the experience. If you're able to do that, then I think you've done the best you can. It might be helpful to directly ask the senior resident on your first day what you can do on a daily basis to help things move along.
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Ditto, I hope I can do that too.
I'm a little more tentative about my ability to do it now that intern year is about 8 weeks away (WTF!?). I think I should proactively apologize to my students in July.
I've been lucky enough to get a LOT of procedures as a med student -- not as many as mimelim had -- but I still feel like I need practice myself with some of them. I've tried to toss stuff to MS3s this year when it was things I felt solid with and could take them through, but definitely feel like I have much to learn myself. Hopefully I can get comfortable with things early on and be a good teacher and able to let students get really involved as the year goes on.
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There might be classes near you?
Wait until you are an attending.
Those pics aren't of management.
Those are of doctors...
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Potato - patato my friend
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I didn't do half of the things mentioned and clinically honored everything. IDK. I just tried to be normal and professional ie even though I hated ob gyn I didn't say it to the residents. I would try to find something I enjoyed in each field and clutch it as my only source of hope. Like on L and D I would look forward to c sections because they were sorta fun and not disgusting. In neuro I would look forward to seeing dizzy patients in clinic because I was planning on doing ENT at the time etc. Otherwise be professional, don't be a dick, make a joke when indicated and you're good at them, and you should be good if people generally like you as a human being. I never lied about what field I wanted to go into, never brought in baked goods that wasn't for myself or another student and myself, and never sucked anything that wasn't a Popsicle.
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Haha yeah, me too. On the last day of my surgery rotation, I'm sitting in clinic in the afternoon waiting to see a patient and the nurse told me to go take a nap because I looked terrible. Apparently, looking exhausted didn't hurt my grade.
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You have to read the person you're working with. I've found that some attendings and residents actually enjoy blatant ass kissing. Others will laugh at you for it. Your job in 3rd year is to do your best to figure out what the person wants.
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this is the truth
love it when i do something that one attending tells me to do, just to have another attending tell me never to do it that way again
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Regarding the baked goods..
On occasion it can be a good thing for the other students. I was on service with 2 individuals who decided to have a "bake-off" of sorts and see how much they could outdo the other. While they seemed like complete *****s, I sat back, relaxed, ate some good brownies, cupcakes, cakes..etc. and rolled to an honors.
Edit: Thats not to say that everyone who bakes is a *****. Just in this particular scenario trying to impress the residents.
On occasion it can be a good thing for the other students. I was on service with 2 individuals who decided to have a "bake-off" of sorts and see how much they could outdo the other. While they seemed like complete *****s, I sat back, relaxed, ate some good brownies, cupcakes, cakes..etc. and rolled to an honors.
Edit: Thats not to say that everyone who bakes is a *****. Just in this particular scenario trying to impress the residents.
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Pre-meds are gonna read this thread and start learning how to bake cupcakes.
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Already know how to bake cupcakes carrot cupcakes with cream cheese icing is where it's at
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carrots?
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Aight I'll save the cupcakes for my friends. That photo of Ron Swanson is daunting.
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I'd bake carrot cupcakes for my friends and then eat pumpkin pie and/or mini key lime pies someone else brought in at work. Pumpkin pie is super easy to make by the way. So kudos for that. I don't usually like to cook anything that takes longer than 30 minutes to put together.
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I would be super demanding and refuse to eat whatever the person brought in unless it was a pile of profiteroles or a creme brûlée
😀
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lol you hypoglycemic or something right now
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I very rarely refuse free food
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It's just unwise to do in these unstable economic conditions. Obama might be capping PSLF, etc
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What about a note saying LOOK IN THE FRIDGE and there's some ****in lasagna or proscuitto wrapped melon. Chicken pot pie muffin?
Every time I eat brownies in the hospital I feel like a L+D nurse just grazing on garbage food. I cant handle it.
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Oh hell yeah!
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I agree that someone bringing in real food is nice, but mindlessly grazing on sweets got me through a couple long days of table rounds (even though I regretted it later).
Find out if the residents prefer sweets or steaks. Bring whatever those with most power prefer (attendings and seniors > interns). Bring BOTH (or coordinate with other medical student) for everyone to jizz their pants in admiration.
Find out if the residents prefer sweets or steaks. Bring whatever those with most power prefer (attendings and seniors > interns). Bring BOTH (or coordinate with other medical student) for everyone to jizz their pants in admiration.
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We have a tray of cookies/brownies/blondies/etc in the surgery resident's lounge all the time. Perhaps this is why I don't care if students bring in stuff.
Now, being competent making the list, that ****ing gets you noticed.
Now, being competent making the list, that ****ing gets you noticed.
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This: gunner baking. Brought choc chip cookies for long call day (because cookies at 7pm=delicious). Next day, other med student brings in gourmet pastry from fancy pastry shop in town. Apparently, the cookies were sooooo proletarian.
