Tirade on Personal Statements

[addo]

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I have watched several of Dr. Robinson's lectures, and I enjoy his lectures and style.
From what I got in the original post is that our career choices are conditioned by our experiences, and to a certain extent how people (especially parents) respond when told what someone wants to do.
A simple, but subtle and ingsightful point. Still, whats the big deal? The overwhelming number of pre-meds who said they have ALWAYS wanted to be doctors? Not my problem, Im not the one reading the statements.
To OP, just write your own personal statement, with as much idealistic ideas as you please, and stop going on tirades, and if you do find a better place to post them, because I dont think you got the right audience here.

 

[phospho]

Just because you don't know doesn't mean that the rest of us don't.

Frankly, I don't think I can possibly care less.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

There are always going to be people in any profession who love what they do despite the flaws they see in it and people who end up cynical and hate that very same job. Don't worry about whether or not someone is portraying the "reality" because reality for everyone is going to be different.

So I guess my advice is: Engage in as many medically related activities as you can, get as close to the realm of being a doctor as you can and talk to as many people in the field as you can. Then you can figure out if it's really for you. Also, sometimes going with your gut/heart works a lot better than going with your brain (which in your case may be a tad overly analytical). Remember, you don't have to decide right out of undergrad. If you need a year off to explore and think...take it.

I agree that different people will see the same circumstance differently, which was the point I was suggesting to Prowler. So that leads to the conclusion that not only must one familiarize oneself with the potential circumstances inherent in the job, but one must also familiarize oneself with the rudimentary elements and processes inherent in one’s own person. Only then can one properly predict one’s potential for happiness/actualization in that field.

But I must say, I hesitate in “going with my gut/heart” in making a decision like this, mainly because I believe this opens me up to the possible effects of confirmation bias. What, after all, is the nature of “gut,” “heart,” or “intuition” but a rapid assessment of a set of circumstances to reach a conclusion founded not purely upon the set of obvious premises of the given situation, but on previous conclusions reached for situations roughly like that of the present?

Take for example a controversial matter such as racism. Imagine a person was brought up in an environment conducive to the hatred of a certain minority. Since birth, that person has been told or “shown” by the biased interpretations of those around them that anyone belonging to that minority possesses an inherently different nature, possibly an evil one. The person grows up and witnesses a member of that minority commit a borderline questionable act. It isn’t inconceivable that that person would then “know” via a gut reaction that that member of the minority was up to no good.

But that person would not be “correct” in the empirical sense in their interpretation. So I suppose I’m wary of relying on my gut to make my decision, even with shadowing, volunteering, etc. because I don’t know that I’ll be going in there with eyes unclouded. In light of my doubt, what recourse is left but that of reason?

At the same time, I agree with you. Pure reason can be limited, for it requires the consideration of a comprehensive set of premises for a valid conclusion. My views and considerations may be limited in scope and I may be missing key premises necessary for such a valid conclusion. But that is why I take such pains to compose my thoughts and offer them up for analysis and scrutiny by all of you! This way, I have all my bases covered, or as many as I can think of at the moment.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Frankly, I don't think I can possibly care less.

and that matters to anyone because....?

 

[Dial71]

You know, Dial71, this has me thinking. Provided that she didn't just concede to your point for the sake of shutting you up, I think there's something very interesting at work here. I think out of any motivation to pursue a career, the one most people tend to neglect is just these kinds of small, seemingly inconsequential everyday acts. And yet I think it's just these acts that provide the greatest catalyst for sustained enthusiasm, more so than any peripheral benefits. Doing something for the simple sake of doing it... I think if this is the case, any misgivings about the roots of motive should not matter in that case, since no "conditioning" could theoretically affect one's ephemeral feelings towards such inconsequential acts... or could it? And what about the matter of confirmation bias? Can one consciously, with enough awareness and understanding of the self, take that out of the equation? You are sharp and experienced. Much more so that I am. What are your thoughts?

To me, its like a calling. In a moment of reflection, I realized that I enjoyed medicine. The intellectual and technical challenges, easing tense situations, helping those in need (whether they realize it or not) and working alongside a diverse team of professionals. I realized that I would never find another field that offered the same set of challenges or rewards.

However, to claim that a single turning point tipped the scales one way or another is disingenuous. Instead, it was about two years of culmulative experiences and personal growth that convinced me that medicine was a good fit.

I believe that this is true for many docs, too. One of the ER physicians told me that while an undergrad, he planned to work as a chemist for Pepsi. However, he "fell in" with several doctors and ended up in medical school.

Too many pre-meds are sold on the myth that they'll find inspiration in a single event. Searching for that one leads to the disillusionment that you have been describing. If you just drop your preconceptions, you'll be suprised at the actual insight that you can gain.

I really believe that major, multivariable decisions are best solved through intuition rather than reasoning. Barring mentat-level cognitive abilities, there is no way that you could crunch all the data relevant to the decision. That is, if you could even measure and assign the proper significance to each variable influencing the decision. Your unconscious mind is much more powerful than you think. Trust it.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

To me, its like a calling. In a moment of reflection, I realized that I enjoyed medicine. The intellectual and technical challenges, easing tense situations, helping those in need (whether they realize it or not) and working alongside a diverse team of professionals. I realized that I would never find another field that offered the same set of challenges or rewards.

However, to claim that a single turning point tipped the scales one way or another is disingenuous. Instead, it was about two years of culmulative experiences and personal growth that convinced me that medicine was a good fit.

I believe that this is true for many docs, too. One of the ER physicians told me that while an undergrad, he planned to work as a chemist for Pepsi. However, he "fell in" with several doctors and ended up in medical school.

Too many pre-meds are sold on the myth that they'll find inspiration in a single event. Searching for that one leads to the disillusionment that you have been describing. If you just drop your preconceptions, you'll be suprised at the actual insight that you can gain.

I really believe that major, multivariable decisions are best solved through intuition rather than reasoning. Barring mentat-level cognitive abilities, there is no way that you could crunch all the data relevant to the decision. That is, if you could even measure and assign the proper significance to each variable influencing the decision. Your unconscious mind is much more powerful than you think. Trust it.

Ok. I will take this advice. Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

 

[niblet]

To me, its like a calling. In a moment of reflection, I realized that I enjoyed medicine. The intellectual and technical challenges, easing tense situations, helping those in need (whether they realize it or not) and working alongside a diverse team of professionals. I realized that I would never find another field that offered the same set of challenges or rewards.

However, to claim that a single turning point tipped the scales one way or another is disingenuous. Instead, it was about two years of culmulative experiences and personal growth that convinced me that medicine was a good fit.

I believe that this is true for many docs, too. One of the ER physicians told me that while an undergrad, he planned to work as a chemist for Pepsi. However, he "fell in" with several doctors and ended up in medical school.

Too many pre-meds are sold on the myth that they'll find inspiration in a single event. Searching for that one leads to the disillusionment that you have been describing. If you just drop your preconceptions, you'll be suprised at the actual insight that you can gain.

I really believe that major, multivariable decisions are best solved through intuition rather than reasoning. Barring mentat-level cognitive abilities, there is no way that you could crunch all the data relevant to the decision. That is, if you could even measure and assign the proper significance to each variable influencing the decision. Your unconscious mind is much more powerful than you think. Trust it.

Great post. Deciding whether you like a certain food is a matter of tasting it yourself rather than pondering the complex interactions between the food molecules and the nervous system.

 

[Bleg]

Frankly, I don't think I can possibly care less.

Let's test that theory.

In 1972, I was playing in the back yard of our house. I scratched my rear end, then rode my bike down the hill and jumped off right before a drop-off. I rolled on the grass and so didn't sustain any damage, but the same cannot be said for my grass-stained pants or for the bike. Then I went and got the bike and did it again. My brothers joined me in my fun. When Mom found out, boy, was she mad. Meanwhile, my older sister stayed in the house and cleaned up. Mom couldn't figure out why she was so helpful and we were so useless. My sister smugly held that over our heads. In later years, she bitterly remembered all the work she "had" to do while we played outside wrecking things.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Let's test that theory.

In 1972, I was playing in the back yard of our house. I scratched my rear end, then rode my bike down the hill and jumped off right before a drop-off. I rolled on the grass and so didn't sustain any damage, but the same cannot be said for my grass-stained pants or for the bike. Then I went and got the bike and did it again. My brothers joined me in my fun. When Mom found out, boy, was she mad. Meanwhile, my older sister stayed in the house and cleaned up. Mom couldn't figure out why she was so helpful and we were so useless. My sister smugly held that over our heads. In later years, she bitterly remembered all the work she "had" to do while we played outside wrecking things.

Hahahaha, don't know if it applies to phospho but it's funny, mostly because I can just picture it in my head.

 

[Bleg]

Hahahaha, don't know if it applies to phospho but it's funny, mostly because I can just picture it in my head.

I plan to work it into my personal statement.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

I plan to work it into my personal statement.

Do it.

 

[45408]

Frankly, I don't think I can possibly care less.

Thank you for this late-breaking update, sir.

 

[FloatOn]

I can't believe I just read all of that in one sitting. I also can't believe I actually followed most of it.

 

[BioBA]

First of all OP, finally someone who likes to talk philosophy and can think! Hit me up some time. I'd love to talk about other interesting philosophical things. That being said...

Bear with me here, I'm taking Western Civ right now so this will be fun for me:

But that person would not be “correct” in the empirical sense in their interpretation. So I suppose I’m wary of relying on my gut to make my decision, even with shadowing, volunteering, etc. because I don’t know that I’ll be going in there with eyes unclouded. In light of my doubt, what recourse is left but that of reason?

Such a Socratic/Platonic thought. Reason is the only path to happiness. Will I be happy as a doctor? Use reason to (hopefully) reach virtue (that is, that one has truly altruistic reasons for wanting to be a doctor) to realize happiness as a doctor.

Now I am myself a very analytical man. I love using reason to solve situations in which intuition is generally used. One tends to come up with interesting conclusions when one does...just as the OP has.

Despite this fact, I think that the insistence that complete rationality exists is a purely human construction. It is impossible to be purely rational, there will always be a randomness to life that cannot be explained by logic. (Maybe this results from the fact that logic, like geometry, is abstract. We use both to make sense of the world, but neither actually exist (there is no such thing as a circle, etc.).)

Thus, remember Nietzsche’s argument that one cannot ignore one's instinct...instinct, in this case, being the apparently unexplainable desire to become a doctor. If the urge to be a doctor survives some basic introspection (how one shouldn’t be a doctor for money, prestige, to make parents happy), then I think it is safe to say there is some real potential for the medical profession to make you happy.

In summary, reason (logic) is good, but don't try to factor out the unknowns. 🙂

 

[punkedoutriffs]

First of all OP, finally someone who likes to talk philosophy and can think! Hit me up some time. I'd love to talk about other interesting philosophical things. That being said...

Bear with me here, I'm taking Western Civ right now so this will be fun for me:



Such a Socratic/Platonic thought. Reason is the only path to happiness. Will I be happy as a doctor? Use reason to (hopefully) reach virtue (that is, that one has truly altruistic reasons for wanting to be a doctor) to realize happiness as a doctor.

Now I am myself a very analytical man. I love using reason to solve situations in which intuition is generally used. One tends to come up with interesting conclusions when one does...just as the OP has.

Despite this fact, I think that the insistence that complete rationality exists is a purely human construction. It is impossible to be purely rational, there will alwaysbe a randomness to life that cannot be explained by logic. (Maybe this results from the fact that logic, like geometry, is abstract. We use both to make sense of the world, but neither actually exist (there is no such thing as a circle, etc.).)

Thus, remember Nietzsche's argument that one cannot ignore one's instinct...instinct, in this case, being the apparently unexplainable desire to become a doctor. If the urge to be a doctor survives some basic introspection (how one shouldn't be a doctor for money, prestige, to make parents happy), then I think it is safe to say there is some real potential for the medical profession to make you happy.

In summary, reason (logic) is good, but don't try to factor out the unknowns. 🙂

Good point. I'm a big fan of Nietzsche. He tends to keep it real and tell it like it is. Same with guys like Machiavelli or William Blake. But guys like that are diametrically opposed to Platonism. My problem is, I see the merit on both sides, and I find myself always in a state of oscillation or tension as to whose philosophical precepts I should follow.

 

[BBender716]

 

[punkedoutriffs]

How does that even apply?

 

[punkedoutriffs]

After all this, I have written a PS. I would appreciate some opinions on it. If you're interested, please PM me.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

nice job man, try some of the readers in the stickied thread

 

[elenaP]

2 cents: I don't feel like there's anything inherently wrong with responding to external influences if they lead you toward something that helps society in general. The social influences that prompt me not to murder people I think unworthy of life would by and large be considered good influences.

My parents' external influence on my career choice is something I carry with me each day. I don't resent it or deny it, I embrace it. After everything they've done for me, the very least I can do for them is give them the ability to say their daughter is a doctor. Not that it's my only reason, but it's one of the ones I use to remind myself of why I study for hours on end on a daily basis, or why I give up babysitting time to go to school, or why I stay at a job I detest in order to offset some of the cost of school.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

While this thread is "kind of" old, the OP's argument is valid. While maybe not parents, external factors play a huge role in our lives. There are always exceptions to the rule, but you see less doctors from public schools, rural areas, etc. Around my line of work, the saying is "lawyers breed lawyers and truckers breed truckers." External factors are huge.

 

[elenaP]

While this thread is "kind of" old, the OP's argument is valid. While maybe not parents, external factors play a huge role in our lives. There are always exceptions to the rule, but you see less doctors from public schools, rural areas, etc. Around my line of work, the saying is "lawyers breed lawyers and truckers breed truckers." External factors are huge.

My dad is a trucker and it's his disappointment in himself for not pursuing academics (rather than a practical, immediate, easy buck) that makes him so adamant that his daughters do. He puts less pressure on my sister because school comes less easily to her, but he really made me feel like a bad person for not wanting to do something academic initially. In a way he was right, why waste what I'm good at? I would make the worst trucker of all time, or carpenter, or really anything that's more based on dexterity and skill rather than using my head. So why not use my head if it comes so naturally?

That was my family's main external influence on me, to use my best abilities rather than just get by and live a normal life. In my opinion that's a mighty noble cause.