TNR Neighbor’s Cats?

[migc]

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*I tried searching this topic and couldn’t really find anything but if you know of an already existing thread feel free to redirect me.

There is an area of my neighborhood, a couple houses or so, where tons of cats hang out. Every time I drive by I see at least 3 and I’ve seen up to 10 at once. They produce kittens like crazy. I know that one man in one of the houses feeds them and the cats never really leave the two yards. So I’m not 100% sure that these cats are “owned” by him or if they are just strays that he feeds. And I don’t know if they are tame or feral.

So to get to my point- I would really like to trap some of these cats and have them fixed at a local spay neuter clinic. I hate seeing more and more kittens every year. But what are the ethics of this? I don’t know for sure that they are his cats and I honestly don’t think he would notice if they were to disappear for a little while for a surgery. It’s obvious he has not intentions of fixing them himself. I want to help but I also don’t want to feel like I’m stealing his cats and having surgery performed on them haha.

 

[battie]

"Saving" Stray Cat vs. Stealing Owned Outdoor Cat (No ID)

This thread had a lot of ethical discussions on this topic.

I personally would talk with the owners of the property purely from a legal perspective. Walking up on their property without permission is technically illegal. If they decide they own the cats, that can put you into theft territory as well. By talking to them, you're covering your own butt.

You never know what people are willing to do until you talk with them. He might want to sterilize these animals, but just might not know where to start.

 

[migc]

"Saving" Stray Cat vs. Stealing Owned Outdoor Cat (No ID)

This thread had a lot of ethical discussions on this topic.

I personally would talk with the owners of the property purely from a legal perspective. Walking up on their property without permission is technically illegal. If they decide they own the cats, that can put you into theft territory as well. By talking to them, you're covering your own butt.

You never know what people are willing to do until you talk with them. He might want to sterilize these animals, but just might not know where to start.

Thank you! That was the thread I was looking for I guess I just didn’t search the right thing. What if there is some space beside the house that is “no mans land”? Like if I set a trap there I wouldn’t be coming into their property. Honestly I see this man often and I don’t feel very comfortable approaching him (I don’t mean for that to sound judgey).

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I would really like to trap some of these cats and have them fixed at a local spay neuter clinic. I hate seeing more and more kittens every year. But what are the ethics of this?

The ethics say don't do it. Unless you know for a fact they aren't his cats, then taking them is theft, and having them sexually altered is very unethical. Talk to your neighbour and ask 1) if the cats are his/theirs, and 2) if he's interested in getting them neutered, especially if there's no cost to him.

 

[DVMDream]

Just talk to him. No harm in talking to him especially if he needs not to pay anything. You never know, he may be thrilled that someone wants to help and he's only feeding them so he doesn't need to watch them starve.

 

[battie]

What if there is some space beside the house that is “no mans land”?

The thing is, if this is in a city, 99% chance "someone" owns that property, even if it's a bank or something. It just takes a nosey neighbor seeing you there and calling the cops to get you in some hot water, especially if they see you laying out humane traps and don't understand what you're doing. At that point, a judge will not take not being comfortable speaking to him as an excuse when you could've contacted animal control.

 

[migc]

You’ve all brought up good points that I didn’t think about. I still want to help and there are cats that wonder through my back yard every so often (not fenced in) so I think I may start there. If I get more comfortable with TNR (I’ve never done it) and I decide I still want to help his cats, I will talk to him before doing anything. Thanks guys!

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I still want to help and there are cats that wonder through my back yard every so often (not fenced in) so I think I may start there.

While it may be legal to scoop up wandering cats in your yard, it's not necessarily neighbourly and might not go over well, especially if it's a cat that only wanders through every now and then and you can't know if it's owned or not.

 

[SkiOtter]

Don’t tnr the cats without talking to him. I get that you want to help and don’t necessarily want to approach him, but you you really should. If he’s not interested, fine. But he might be. Just talk to him. Pretty much no one on here is going to tell you otherwise, so stop trying to get someone to say “yeah do it!!!!!” by saying you’ll trap them in your yard. What if they ARE his cats and you just trapped one of his cats in your yard and TNR’d it??

 

[cowgirla]

If you aren't comfortable, ask the TNR group to contact him directly. Or animal control if you are concerned about welfare issues.

To echo others, what if they are his cats? What if you trap his favorite cat and it dies under anesthesia? I don't see that going over well.

 

[LabLuv004]

I had a friend who has a older hyperthyroid cat. It dissapeared one day from their neighborhood and the owner spent three days searching for this cat. Then the cat shows up 3 days later with an ear tip cut off and sutures on her abdomen. She was livid since her cat was spayed already so she went through unnecessary surgery and missed three days of medication.

If you ask the guy and he doesn’t claim them, it might be good to put up some flyers in the neighborhood like “hey there are lots of strays and I’m going to be trapping. If you have an outdoor cat that shouldn’t be caught could you send a picture or something so I don’t accidentally catch your cat” At least then you tried to prevent stealing someone’s cat.

 

[migc]

Don’t tnr the cats without talking to him. I get that you want to help and don’t necessarily want to approach him, but you you really should. If he’s not interested, fine. But he might be. Just talk to him. Pretty much no one on here is going to tell you otherwise, so stop trying to get someone to say “yeah do it!!!!!” by saying you’ll trap them in your yard. What if they ARE his cats and you just trapped one of his cats in your yard and TNR’d it??

I’m not “trying to get someone to say yeah do it”. I was genuinely asking for opinions. I have wanted to do TNR to help the cats in my neighborhood and wanted to see if someone came across a similar situation. Like I said when I replied the second time, thank you all for your input and I will definitely talk to him before doing anything. You all brought up things I did not originally think of. Again, just curious if anyone had dealt with something similar. Also my yard is quite far from his house so I wasn’t trying to secretly trap his cats or anything there’s just literally cats everywhere.

 

[SkiOtter]

I’m not “trying to get someone to say yeah do it”. I was genuinely asking for opinions. I have wanted to do TNR to help the cats in my neighborhood and wanted to see if someone came across a similar situation. Like I said when I replied the second time, thank you all for your input and I will definitely talk to him before doing anything. You all brought up things I did not originally think of. Again, just curious if anyone had dealt with something similar. Also my yard is quite far from his house so I wasn’t trying to secretly trap his cats or anything there’s just literally cats everywhere.

These are what I was talking about. You keep saying you’re going to try and do the cats that pass through your yard on the way to eat in his, even though people are telling you not to. You just keep trying to find other ways to get the cats done without having to talk to the neighbor, even though people are saying don’t do it that way.

Thank you! That was the thread I was looking for I guess I just didn’t search the right thing. What if there is some space beside the house that is “no mans land”? Like if I set a trap there I wouldn’t be coming into their property. Honestly I see this man often and I don’t feel very comfortable approaching him (I don’t mean for that to sound judgey).

You’ve all brought up good points that I didn’t think about. I still want to help and there are cats that wonder through my back yard every so often (not fenced in) so I think I may start there. If I get more comfortable with TNR (I’ve never done it) and I decide I still want to help his cats, I will talk to him before doing anything. Thanks guys!

 

[migc]

These are what I was talking about. You keep saying you’re going to try and do the cats that pass through your yard on the way to eat in his, even though people are telling you not to. You just keep trying to find other ways to get the cats done without having to talk to the neighbor, even though people are saying don’t do it that way.

I understand what you mean. Those were just other things I had thought of. Like I said, my neighborhood is full of cats so I was thinking of other places to set traps. Again, not necessarily to trap “his” cats but just for the possibility of helping others in the neighborhood. Just looking for ways to help and something to do for the summer and wanted to know your opinions. Now I know, so thanks.

 

[that redhead]

You could always call your local animal control and report your concerns, see what they recommend.

 

[princesspeach2]

Just something to add, I one time wanted to trap a mother and her kittens who were living in a dangerous location to get them to safety. The property owner wanted to get them out as well. We had successfully got the mother and all the kittens but one, who was fairly untame after almost being caught and seeing his family get trapped. He meowed pitifully trying to find his family, it was heartbreaking.

Realizing that we wouldn't be able to catch him with just our hands and a crate, I went to my local shelter to rent a havahart trap, and I was unable to take the trap home with me. Instead, I was required to fill out a form saying my intentions, and then told that I must put signs out around the neighborhood for a few days or a couple weeks (can't remember the time amount exactly) saying I was trapping kitties, so owners of outdoor kitties could keep their kitties inside or put collars on them to identify them as having homes. It didn't matter that the only kitty I was after was this one stray kitten, it didn't matter that the trap would only be in a location where that kitten was, there was no way around it. (I ended up saying I would, then walked to home depot and bought a trap from them, baited and caught the kitten who was reunited with his family, but I digress).

Basically, just be aware that if you are renting to trap from a shelter, that there might be a policy where you have to put up signs first.Generally, from what they told me, you are supposed to put up signs even if you aren't renting a trap, to be considerate of other kitty owners.

I also think that you should approach the man first as well, and would not advise you to TNR these cats without talking to him first. There was a dog who was kept as a guard dog at a car lot, who I walked by everyday to get to school. Her water bowl was empty, she was pretty skinny, and they bred her a couple times as well. Called animal control, but nothing came of it. I decided one day to make conversation when I saw a man outside by her. I mentioned how I noticed she was often low on water, and he had no idea that dogs needed to have fresh water available all the time. He asked me for more advice on dog care, and I ended up helping him find a low cost spay and neuter clinic to get her spayed as well. Surprisingly, they actually cared about this dog a great deal (brought her overseas even), just were clueless on animal care and low on funds.

You have no idea whether this man is even their owner or not, or if he would be against getting them vaccinated and fixed. You could approach it from a "These are such cute kitties, are they yours?" angle, and then carry the conversation from there. Or, I would go out, buy a bag of cat food, and say that you notice he feeds them, you have some extra cat food, and ask if he wants it, if you want an easier way to start a conversation.

Don't take these cats without talking to him though. I think it is great you want to help the kitties, but go through proper channels first. I think contacting a TNR or stray cat alliance group would be a great idea if you don't want to talk with him directly yourself. Especially i you are footing the cost of the vet bills, I'm sure they would be more than happy to help you out.

 

[migc]

Just something to add, I one time wanted to trap a mother and her kittens who were living in a dangerous location to get them to safety. The property owner wanted to get them out as well. We had successfully got the mother and all the kittens but one, who was fairly untame after almost being caught and seeing his family get trapped. He meowed pitifully trying to find his family, it was heartbreaking.

Realizing that we wouldn't be able to catch him with just our hands and a crate, I went to my local shelter to rent a havahart trap, and I was unable to take the trap home with me. Instead, I was required to fill out a form saying my intentions, and then told that I must put signs out around the neighborhood for a few days or a couple weeks (can't remember the time amount exactly) saying I was trapping kitties, so owners of outdoor kitties could keep their kitties inside or put collars on them to identify them as having homes. It didn't matter that the only kitty I was after was this one stray kitten, it didn't matter that the trap would only be in a location where that kitten was, there was no way around it. (I ended up saying I would, then walked to home depot and bought a trap from them, baited and caught the kitten who was reunited with his family, but I digress).

Basically, just be aware that if you are renting to trap from a shelter, that there might be a policy where you have to put up signs first.Generally, from what they told me, you are supposed to put up signs even if you aren't renting a trap, to be considerate of other kitty owners.

I also think that you should approach the man first as well, and would not advise you to TNR these cats without talking to him first. There was a dog who was kept as a guard dog at a car lot, who I walked by everyday to get to school. Her water bowl was empty, she was pretty skinny, and they bred her a couple times as well. Called animal control, but nothing came of it. I decided one day to make conversation when I saw a man outside by her. I mentioned how I noticed she was often low on water, and he had no idea that dogs needed to have fresh water available all the time. He asked me for more advice on dog care, and I ended up helping him find a low cost spay and neuter clinic to get her spayed as well. Surprisingly, they actually cared about this dog a great deal (brought her overseas even), just were clueless on animal care and low on funds.

You have no idea whether this man is even their owner or not, or if he would be against getting them vaccinated and fixed. You could approach it from a "These are such cute kitties, are they yours?" angle, and then carry the conversation from there. Or, I would go out, buy a bag of cat food, and say that you notice he feeds them, you have some extra cat food, and ask if he wants it, if you want an easier way to start a conversation.

Don't take these cats without talking to him though. I think it is great you want to help the kitties, but go through proper channels first. I think contacting a TNR or stray cat alliance group would be a great idea if you don't want to talk with him directly yourself. Especially i you are footing the cost of the vet bills, I'm sure they would be more than happy to help you out.

Great advice! Thank you! I have definitely decided I won’t do anything without speaking to him first. When I first posted I will admit I just hadn’t considered it from the angles other posters have mentioned.

 

[britzen]

Even if you trap a cat in no man's land or your own back yard you would be legally responsible for attempting to find its owner before you would be able to have it spayed/neutered.

Depending on the state where you live, stray holds on animals can last for 1-2 weeks and have specific definitions of what makes a "reasonable attempt" to notify the owner that you have their animal. There are often also laws about releasing animals - it's possible that you could be charged with animal abandonment if you pick up a cat and then let it go later.

My advice would be to contact animal control and have them talk to the neighbor if you don't want to. Even if he says he doesn't own the cats, ask animal control what you need to do to TNR the cats while covering your butt. I'd suggest postering and a flyer on every door in the neighborhood. You need to make sure you're not scooping up somebody's owned cat in the neighborhood while trying to TNR ferals.

If it's clear that the animals are not owned by anybody see if you can find a reputable shelter or rescue to come set up traps and help you - they should have the resources to help you set up humane traps and have access cheaper rescue rates for spay/neuter/vaccines. It will also limit your liability if they are technically in charge of the process. (Look for independent shelters/rescues though because government funded ones usually aren't legally allowed to release strays.)

 

[vetmedhead]

As someone who works at animal control I want to echo all of the recommendations to both talk to the man and to contact animal control if necessary. You would be surprised by how many absolutely massive animal hoarding confiscations we ended up doing purely because a neighbor noticed a lot of cats in the neighborhood and called it in. And, again, if there's even remotely a chance that those cats belong to that man (which, by the way, they may "belong" to him simply by virtue of him feeding them - in my city he would legally count as the owner of all of those cats for this reason) you shouldn't do anything to them beyond have a neighborly chat with him about his cats.

It's also important to remember that the legality of TNR gets a little fuzzy from place to place - in my city animal control wasn't legally allowed to TNR animals for a long time because of how the municipal codes were written, so we had to go through rescue organizations etc if we wanted operations like that to take place.