TO AEGD or not to AEGD...that is the question???

[Shark007]

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Basically, I have been thinking about the whole AEGD residency lately, since I now realize in my 3rd year that I won't have the experience I would like to have when I finally hit the ground running in May 2007. Coming from UNLV has been a blessing and a curse. But i'll focus on the cursed part for this thread. We are in clinic only 3 full days, I have problems getting certain patients (still have not done a crown or bridge), and we are not allowed to do molar endo. Most of our competencies are attempted on the first try because we never know if we'll see that type of patient again.
One of my clinic instructors is in her late twenties and did an AEGD at Virginia and loved it. She felt that she did not gain enough experience in her four years of dental school and the AEGD allowed her to tackle many different aspects of dentistry and gain a lot more confidence. I have also met other dentists who would say to not waste your time in an AEGD, everyone starts off slow, do some CE credits, and you will find your way. So, what are your thoughts about doing a "5th year of dental school".

And to make this thread even longer. I did not plan on continuing on after my fourth year. My GPA is not stellar (3.3) and i'm not very high in the ranking. Part I board score 86. If I decided to go ahead an apply is this still competitive. The word on the street is that many spots are open every year and letters or recommendation are more likely to make or break you. I look fwd. to your responses.


Shark007

 

[drhobie7]

Basically, I have been thinking about the whole AEGD residency lately, since I now realize in my 3rd year that I won't have the experience I would like to have when I finally hit the ground running in May 2007. Coming from UNLV has been a blessing and a curse. But i'll focus on the cursed part for this thread. We are in clinic only 3 full days, I have problems getting certain patients (still have not done a crown or bridge), and we are not allowed to do molar endo. Most of our competencies are attempted on the first try because we never know if we'll see that type of patient again.
One of my clinic instructors is in her late twenties and did an AEGD at Virginia and loved it. She felt that she did not gain enough experience in her four years of dental school and the AEGD allowed her to tackle many different aspects of dentistry and gain a lot more confidence. I have also met other dentists who would say to not waste your time in an AEGD, everyone starts off slow, do some CE credits, and you will find your way. So, what are your thoughts about doing a "5th year of dental school".

And to make this thread even longer. I did not plan on continuing on after my fourth year. My GPA is not stellar (3.3) and i'm not very high in the ranking. Part I board score 86. If I decided to go ahead an apply is this still competitive. The word on the street is that many spots are open every year and letters or recommendation are more likely to make or break you. I look fwd. to your responses.


Shark007

Think about doing a GPR too. You'll still do a lot of dentistry and I think have a better chance to learn more in a GPR. I think you'll develop more confidence in a GPR as a result of the oral surgery training. I haven't met anyone who did a GPR and felt it was a waste of time. Generally the only people who say it's a waste of time are those who didn't do it. I have heard of people who did AEGDs and weren't happy. There's such a variety of programs out there you have to do research on each one to make sure you're getting what you want.

 

[gryffindor]

Think about doing a GPR too. You'll still do a lot of dentistry and I think have a better chance to learn more in a GPR. I think you'll develop more confidence in a GPR as a result of the oral surgery training. I haven't met anyone who did a GPR and felt it was a waste of time. Generally the only people who say it's a waste of time are those who didn't do it. I have heard of people who did AEGDs and weren't happy. There's such a variety of programs out there you have to do research on each one to make sure you're getting what you want.

If I was going on to do general dentistry, then my GPR wasn't really all that. Sounds like the OP is looking for more crown and bridge and endo experience - I did more of those things in dental school than in my GPR. Our patient base was mostly NY Medicaid, so none of that stuff was covered and the patients didn't have the money or desire to do it. The red tape to do any of the non-Medicaid procedures was so thick that I got tired of fighting it and gave up. At my GPR, I did a bunch of extractions, big fillings, cleanings (the hygienist retired), and dentures. I did get a lot of patient management experience & this helped my confidence. The GPR did give a lot more hospital experience and experience dealing with very very sick patients (have yet to use this knowledge in private practice) and was a great place to network with the attendings (possibly gave me an edge in my ortho applications).

Research your programs carefully - if your instructor had such a good experience at that AEGD, call them up and see if you can talk to a few of the residents there, find out about their experiences and apply there. GPRs & AEGDs can change drastically between years because of funding issues - what may have been a great GPR 5 years ago can quickly dwindle to being junk in that time frame. My friends did AEGDs & GPRs that were more valuable for general dentistry than mine was. Try to talk to the residents that are there now because the ones coming in after July 1 will just be learning the ropes and won't have any clue about what kind of experience lies ahead of them.

Depending on where in the country you want to practice, if you find a job in private practice where the senior doc is willing to mentor you, this may be more valuable to you than a GPR/AEGD. From my limited experience now in private practice, the dentistry in private practice is different from what I did in the academic settings (dental school, GPR). What I mean is that class II cavity preps are the same, but managing the patient/finances/insurance/expectations is very different. If private practice is your ultimate goal, then there is nothing wrong with skipping the AEGD/GPR if you find the right opportunity.

 

[Plaque Assassin]

If I was going on to do general dentistry, then my GPR wasn't really all that. Sounds like the OP is looking for more crown and bridge and endo experience - I did more of those things in dental school than in my GPR. Our patient base was mostly NY Medicaid, so none of that stuff was covered and the patients didn't have the money or desire to do it. The red tape to do any of the non-Medicaid procedures was so thick that I got tired of fighting it and gave up. At my GPR, I did a bunch of extractions, big fillings, cleanings (the hygienist retired), and dentures. I did get a lot of patient management experience & this helped my confidence. The GPR did give a lot more hospital experience and experience dealing with very very sick patients (have yet to use this knowledge in private practice) and was a great place to network with the attendings (possibly gave me an edge in my ortho applications).

Research your programs carefully - if your instructor had such a good experience at that AEGD, call them up and see if you can talk to a few of the residents there, find out about their experiences and apply there. GPRs & AEGDs can change drastically between years because of funding issues - what may have been a great GPR 5 years ago can quickly dwindle to being junk in that time frame. My friends did AEGDs & GPRs that were more valuable for general dentistry than mine was. Try to talk to the residents that are there now because the ones coming in after July 1 will just be learning the ropes and won't have any clue about what kind of experience lies ahead of them.

Depending on where in the country you want to practice, if you find a job in private practice where the senior doc is willing to mentor you, this may be more valuable to you than a GPR/AEGD. From my limited experience now in private practice, the dentistry in private practice is different from what I did in the academic settings (dental school, GPR). What I mean is that class II cavity preps are the same, but managing the patient/finances/insurance/expectations is very different. If private practice is your ultimate goal, then there is nothing wrong with skipping the AEGD/GPR if you find the right opportunity.

I am sorry to hear you had such a bad experience in your GPR. I am currently chief resident in a great GPR program in York Hospital York PA. The experience I had here blows dental school away. I have done lots of extractions but I have also done lots of molar endo and close to sixty PFMs. I have also placed and restored half a dozen implants. We have four hygienists, so no prophy time wasted. We also have assistants for every procedure.

I agree that you need to research your programs carefully because there is a big difference from place to place, but in general from my experience during applications and interviews GPRs are better than AEGDs. Many people I talked to felt an AEGD was more like a fifth year of dental school than a residency. GPRs also tend to pay much better than AEGDs.

I encourage every senior student who rotates with our program to pursue a GPR residency because with all the advances in dentistry going on you are already 10-15 years behind the curve when you graduate from dental school. The program gives you a chance to gain speed but also gain confidence in more complex cases.

Good luck to everyone no matter what your decision is.

 

[gryffindor]

I am sorry to hear you had such a bad experience in your GPR. I am currently chief resident in a great GPR program in York Hospital York PA. The experience I had here blows dental school away. I have done lots of extractions but I have also done lots of molar endo and close to sixty PFMs. I have also placed and restored half a dozen implants. We have four hygienists, so no prophy time wasted. We also have assistants for every procedure.

I agree that you need to research your programs carefully because there is a big difference from place to place, but in general from my experience during applications and interviews GPRs are better than AEGDs. Many people I talked to felt an AEGD was more like a fifth year of dental school than a residency. GPRs also tend to pay much better than AEGDs.

I encourage every senior student who rotates with our program to pursue a GPR residency because with all the advances in dentistry going on you are already 10-15 years behind the curve when you graduate from dental school. The program gives you a chance to gain speed but also gain confidence in more complex cases.

Good luck to everyone no matter what your decision is.

Meh, it wasn't entirely bad experience. It just wasn't a good one if my goal was to gain skills for general dentistry. My main goal was to add to my resume to apply to ortho. The GPR had lots of personal positives for me like location & housing, OMS & Pedo residents on hand, weekly ortho clinic, some crazy hospital stories. But for the student who wanted to learn implant restorations and get really proficient in crown & bridge & endo, there are much better programs out there.

What plaqueassasin has described is a "good" GPR - by comparison, mine had 4 assistants for 10 residents, no hygienist, miles of red tape, and what seemed like totally inefficient and incompetent systems (and sometimes staff) to run the clinic. I think I did <5 crowns. Of the 7 GPR residents combined, we probably restored <5 implant crowns.

 

[Shark007]

Meh, it wasn't entirely bad experience. It just wasn't a good one if my goal was to gain skills for general dentistry. My main goal was to add to my resume to apply to ortho. The GPR had lots of personal positives for me like location & housing, OMS & Pedo residents on hand, weekly ortho clinic, some crazy hospital stories. But for the student who wanted to learn implant restorations and get really proficient in crown & bridge & endo, there are much better programs out there.

What plaqueassasin has described is a "good" GPR - by comparison, mine had 4 assistants for 10 residents, no hygienist, miles of red tape, and what seemed like totally inefficient and incompetent systems (and sometimes staff) to run the clinic. I think I did <5 crowns. Of the 7 GPR residents combined, we probably restored <5 implant crowns.

I appreciate the responses. And now that my eyes are getting tired of going over thousands of oral path slides for our one year final extravaganza...I thought i'd come back to post. After the posts I have really started looking into some more GPR programs, and plan to visit the GPR across the street more often, and I have added York to the list of programs I want to check out. I have been trying to keep my options open, but their seems to be a lot of different directions you can go. Interndent came to talk to our school about what they have to offer. I know group practices tend to be portrayed as "bad", but I talked to a recent graduate ('05) from NOVA who started working for them in November and seems to be doing fine speed wise and said the first 3 months were tough but has been getting the hang of it. Anyone else start out working for a group practice and can talk about the pros and cons?
I think many of us want to find someone who will mentor us right out of dental school and start and associateship, but it seems that scenario doesn't happen too often (unless you're related to the dentist). Some of the dentists I have talked to around Vegas want someone to have some experience before hiring (another reason why I thought of doing a residency). I know the Gentle Dentals, Dentalvilles, and Dentalands of the world like new grads...but not sure if that's a good place to start or not. Dentists I talk with at school seem to have different opinions then private practice dentists. Personally, I will just like to actually make an income after all these years of school

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

I appreciate the responses. And now that my eyes are getting tired of going over thousands of oral path slides for our one year final extravaganza...I thought i'd come back to post. After the posts I have really started looking into some more GPR programs, and plan to visit the GPR across the street more often, and I have added York to the list of programs I want to check out. I have been trying to keep my options open, but their seems to be a lot of different directions you can go. Interndent came to talk to our school about what they have to offer. I know group practices tend to be portrayed as "bad", but I talked to a recent graduate ('05) from NOVA who started working for them in November and seems to be doing fine speed wise and said the first 3 months were tough but has been getting the hang of it. Anyone else start out working for a group practice and can talk about the pros and cons?
I think many of us want to find someone who will mentor us right out of dental school and start and associateship, but it seems that scenario doesn't happen too often (unless you're related to the dentist). Some of the dentists I have talked to around Vegas want someone to have some experience before hiring (another reason why I thought of doing a residency). I know the Gentle Dentals, Dentalvilles, and Dentalands of the world like new grads...but not sure if that's a good place to start or not. Dentists I talk with at school seem to have different opinions then private practice dentists. Personally, I will just like to actually make an income after all these years of school

I think that if you really wanted to improve your skill in both clinical as well as understanding how dentistry is intergrated with medicine, then do what I did: AEGD and GPR. I did GPR first then AEGD and to me, it was a huge step down. If a patient has a heart mummur and requires a simple occlusal alloy, I was not allowed to do the procedure and had to send patient to a MD for a "consultation" in my AEGD program. What a complete waste of time. If your goal is to improve your skill, then a good AEGD will do the trick. Make sure you talk with residents who have been there at least 6 months to get the scoope of the program. If you want both, then do AEGD first then GPR. DP