To be or not to be a physician

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pharm1234

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I am deciding if I should go to medical school or pharmacy school.

Could someone tell me how it has been going through medical school? What to expect as a doctor? How much you make after malpractice insurance? Cost of school, debt when you come out? lifestyle-hours you should work a week as a doctor? stress level as a doctor? Is it worth being a doctor? Does it take a toll on you? Things you like about being a doctor? Things you don't like about being a doctor? Etc.

I appreciate any input. Thanks
 
pharmacist: I still don't understand why they need 4 years of education. MD prescribe medication, and most often they check the typo in our prescription or call us to let us know it's not in the formulary.

MD: Stress level, income and Life-style is totally up to you and your future field. Income after insurance will still be a lot more than the pharmacist in the hospital who make about $40 to $50 an hour. Don't know how much they make if they own the store. I like being a MD because it allows me to utilize my brain 110%. I don't like the malpractice issue, and HMO stuff.

Worth being a MD? The question should rather be reverse: are you worthy to be a MD. of course, IMHO.
 
hello23 said:
pharmacist: I still don't understand why they need 4 years of education. MD prescribe medication, and most often they check the typo in our prescription or call us to let us know it's not in the formulary.

MD: Stress level, income and Life-style is totally up to you and your future field. Income after insurance will still be a lot more than the pharmacist in the hospital who make about $40 to $50 an hour. Don't know how much they make if they own the store. I like being a MD because it allows me to utilize my brain 110%. I don't like the malpractice issue, and HMO stuff.

Worth being a MD? The question should rather be reverse: are you worthy to be a MD. of course, IMHO.

wow you're incredibly condescending. Pharmacy is a good field, they start around $90 grand right out of pharmacy school. No residency; regular hours. You'll never use your brain 110% in medicine. It's challenging but not exactly "brain work."

to the OP -- talk to some pharmacists and physicians who are currently in practice. See what they have to say, and decide based on your personal and professional goals. don't let tools like hello23 influence your decision.
 
Good reply doc05

I second his thoughts.....esp about hello23 being a tool :laugh:


goose
 
doc05 said:
wow you're incredibly condescending. Pharmacy is a good field, they start around $90 grand right out of pharmacy school. No residency; regular hours. You'll never use your brain 110% in medicine. It's challenging but not exactly "brain work."

to the OP -- talk to some pharmacists and physicians who are currently in practice. See what they have to say, and decide based on your personal and professional goals. don't let tools like hello23 influence your decision.

You should be talking doc05, considering you manage to denigrate non-specialists left and right but have a soft-spot for a group of people who work in stores where I buy toothpaste.

Back on topic though, as much doubt as there exists in the medical profession about our future status, whatever happens to doctors is going to happen 10X over to pharmacists. Computerization and outsourcing replacing radiologists? Try pharmacists first as computer software cross-matches different drugs and dosages and checks for side-effects based on your race, age, and previous medical history.

The other difference is that as an MD, you can work for yourself, or for a hospital, or for a university. You have a lot of leeway, and the field overall is interesting and you are not at the mercy of companies (except for those pathologists and radiologists that join mass-throughput companies).

Pharmacy definitely has good hours and a good lifestyle with decent pay and less education (relatively). That is exactly why its not going to last-- but its a great field if what you want to do is pharmacy. Just dont expect the money and hours to be great, because as much as doctors are getting screwed by current medical economics, the bargaining power of the big pharmacies hurts pharmacists even worse.
 
What if I tell you guys what I have written is really what I thought? Being a tool? Fine. But at least that's what I really think. BTW, I don't mean to be condescending at all. I am directly reporting what I have observed in the hospital as far as the interaction between MD and pharm D goes.

When someone asks about if it is worth it to be a physician, to me, that's equivalent to asking if it is worth it to save/help a life. Being a graduating MS4, I am offended by this question. But again, who cares? right?
 
hello23 said:
When someone asks about if it is worth it to be a physician, to me, that's equivalent to asking if it is worth it to save/help a life. Being a graduating MS4, I am offended by this question. But again, who cares? right?

You are really offended by someone asking if its worth it to be a physician? Really? Damn, you're pretty easily offended.

Would you be equally offended if someone asked you if it were worth it to be, say, a lawyer, a nurse, a paramedic, an accountant?

This just strikes me as arrogant. I'll certainly grant you it is very common in medicine but I still think it is hubris. Sure, I think being a physician is the greatest job in the world (why else would I have put up with what it takes to get here) but I can certainly recognize that it isn't for everyone.

Take care,
Jeff
 
Jeff698 said:
You are really offended by someone asking if its worth it to be a physician? Really? Damn, you're pretty easily offended.

Would you be equally offended if someone asked you if it were worth it to be, say, a lawyer, a nurse, a paramedic, an accountant?

This just strikes me as arrogant. I'll certainly grant you it is very common in medicine but I still think it is hubris. Sure, I think being a physician is the greatest job in the world (why else would I have put up with what it takes to get here) but I can certainly recognize that it isn't for everyone.

Take care,
Jeff


Can you tell me some things you like and dislike about being a physician?
 
pharm1234 said:
Can you tell me some things you like and dislike about being a physician?

Well, if you compare it to pharmacy...

You'll generally have less free time as a physician and many more sleepless nights both as a resident or an attending. The training is extremely long and grueling and you won't see the economical fruits of your labor for a quite a long time.

There certainly are cons to being a physician and you should make sure that the sacrifices you'll be required to make match up with your personality. I would guess the same goes for pharmacy.
 
Congrats on thinking about this decision...

a smart person told me once... something I never forgot...

"just because you can, doesn't mean you have to"

So you are smart enough to be a doctor... that's great... is it worth going to 4 years of med school... 3-9 years of residency training... to work much more than 40 hrs/week... so you can have lots of money and respect... and barely see your kids... lose all your hair... and die early...

OR

Be a pharmacist... study for four years... make 90k/yr... and never more... probably will make much less 10-15 years from now... enjoy your mid 20s more... bask in the sunset... and watch TV more... get less respect from people... count and put pills into a bottle all day...

if you ask me... they both suck...

being independently wealthy is the best profession.
 
GoPistons said:
Congrats on thinking about this decision...

OR

Be a pharmacist... study for four years... make 90k/yr... and never more... probably will make much less 10-15 years from now...


Pistons,
Are you a doctor?
You think pharmacists will make less money 10-15 years from now? Why, because of technology?
 
pharm1234 said:
Pistons,
Are you a doctor?
You think pharmacists will make less money 10-15 years from now? Why, because of technology?

This wasn't directed at me, but I was a pharmacist for 6 years before going to medical school (where I am now), so you might be interested in my perspective on the two fields.

Just so you know, the reason I'm leaving pharmacy has nothing to do with how viable the field will be 20 years from now. But the field will have to change dramatically in the next 10 years, or it will go the way of the dinosaurs. Right now, the Pharmacy Practice Acts of the various states are artificially propping up the retail side of pharmacist demand. The technology is available right now to eliminate 90% of retail pharmacist jobs. However, health care is very slow to adopt technology, and rightfully so due to the complexity of the decisions and tasks involved in delivering care, and the fact that the acceptable level of error in any non-human component of the health care system is essentially zero. Also, because physician practice is still largely a cottage industry or at the most, a small business endeavor, and information technology tends to be extremely expensive to implement, most physician offices cannot currently function in a paperless environment. But 10 years from now, I think that will be very different. And once that barrier has been eliminated, the large retail chains and PBMs will lobby hard to get the state practice acts changed so that they can eliminate the huge budget drain that pharmacist salaries represent for them.

The profession is in major denial about this, and consequently is not moving fast enough to stake out other areas of practice for the day when their legislative life-support is withdrawn. There is also fierce opposition from other constituencies within health care to any expansion in role. But there's also a lot of opposition within the profession, some of it due to fear of liability, and some of it due to the very same reasons people choose pharmacy in the first place, i.e. they don't want the responsibility. Most people haven't firgured out that the choice is not between the status quo and more responsibility, it's between more responsibility or no job at all.

As for me, I had positioned myself to avoid obsolescence, even if I never got into med school. But that's because I didn't choose pharmacy to avoid medicine, I chose it because I didn't think medicine was an option for me, and it was the best alternative available. There will always be a place, in every profession, for the aggressive go-getter who's not afraid of more work and more responsibility. However, the reward for that kind of thing is greater in medicine, both monetarily and in terms of helping your patients.

I'd like to see pharmacy as a whole morph into something with long-term viability. But at some point in the next 10-15 years, the competition for jobs is going to get very fierce, and if you choose pharmacy, just make sure you make the sacrifices you'll need to make in order to land the kind of clinical job that can't be done by a robot.

Or, you could go into medicine, where your battle will be to keep your income, rather than your job, and to keep your freedom to do what you think is best for your patient, rather than trying to establish that you even have the ability and training to make that decision.
 
First of all pharmacist jobs are not going anywhere but up. How can state laws possibly change with the outcry of medical errors in this industry. Not only have pharmacists played a major role in preventing these errors in the past, but they're playing an even greater role today with all this negative publicity. As far as automation is concerned, you're always going to need someone manually checking drug interactions and dosing. There is no system that will ever be developed that could manage this and still allow patients the freedom to take prescriptions to any business. Look at the number of new pharmacies being built. This coincides with the number of prescriptions being written by physicians. If anything the MD's should be worried about the much more affortable midlevels.

With regard to which profession its easy. MD equals more pay, prestige, responsibility, and probably more exciting. But also more time intensive and stressful. Pharmacy allows a great lifestyle at a decent salary (can easily make 120,000 with overtime). but less prestige and boring. BTW I am pharmacist who returned to med. school.
 
KungPOWChicken said:
First of all pharmacist jobs are not going anywhere but up. How can state laws possibly change with the outcry of medical errors in this industry. Not only have pharmacists played a major role in preventing these errors in the past, but they're playing an even greater role today with all this negative publicity. As far as automation is concerned, you're always going to need someone manually checking drug interactions and dosing. There is no system that will ever be developed that could manage this and still allow patients the freedom to take prescriptions to any business. Look at the number of new pharmacies being built. This coincides with the number of prescriptions being written by physicians.

For the next 10 years or so, your assessment is correct. As for the rest, time will tell. Ironically, it's the very fact that most people share your opinion that will make the long term prediction come true.
 
I really don't have a clue if pharmacist's will make less money... I can't predict anything...

but I do know that much of the training that goes into pharmacy school is a waste of time... I know pharm residents that learn the physical exam, an extreme amount of biology, etc... they even learn to use an otoscope... it's almost like they're doctors... I would never choose a profession that requires four years of schooling for something as simple for the most part as measuring stuff and putting pills inside a bottle... yes of course some times they need to know drug kinetics, etc. but only if they work in the hospital...

in my opinion, medical school is much more hands-on and valuable... you learn a crap load of stuff of which the majority you will have to use...

now that I really think about this, hell! just go get an MD and then bail and do consulting or something... it really is just a better overall 4 year degree every way you slice it... more job security, more respect, more opportunities, and more income...
 
Go to med shool.Medicine is a very challenging field to be in now but I think that it is worth it. I know of two MDs who were pharmacists first. Go to med school if that is what you really want to do.


CambieMD
 
Of course you have to go with what strikes you as the best fit for your goals and personality, but I think being a clinical PharmD in an academic center or a big hospital could be very rewarding. There is this myth out there that being a pharmacist means you have to work at CVS counter or something. Besides running the hospital pharmacy, the PharmDs at my institution are essential parts of the transplant and ICU services -- they round on patients with the teams, help out with complicated med regimens, track down drug reactions etc. As a med student, the PharmD students were great to have on a service, and I always learned a ton from them... if a PharmD student was particularly good, attending MDs would often ask them for advice. I have nothing but good things to say about our PharmD colleagues.
 
pharm1234 said:
I am deciding if I should go to medical school or pharmacy school.

Could someone tell me how it has been going through medical school? What to expect as a doctor? How much you make after malpractice insurance? Cost of school, debt when you come out? lifestyle-hours you should work a week as a doctor? stress level as a doctor? Is it worth being a doctor? Does it take a toll on you? Things you like about being a doctor? Things you don't like about being a doctor? Etc.

I appreciate any input. Thanks


I believe that I am in a unique position to shed some light on this question. I am an MD (internal med) and my wife is a pharmacist. I have followed her training closely and have a pretty good idea of what a pharmacist's training is like.
I love what I do, and I have no regrets... but I gotta say that if I had to do it over again, I'd probably become a pharmacist. Being a male, I discounted pharmacy before I knew much about it (for whatever reason, it was female dominated through much of recent history). But I do see the benefits now:

Pharmacy: 4 years of schooling and you're out making 80-110k with good hours, decent amount of respect, and quite a few good years ahead of you. My wife went to a school with an accelerated program for their top applicants - 2 years undergrad and 3 years Pharmacy, she graduated pharm. school at age 22.

Medicine: Obligatory 4 years med school, 2-9 years of residency, sh**ty hours, high stress, huge debt, and the best years of your life working your ass off. Your respect level is unmatched though, and the satisfaction of being your patient's main caregiver may outweigh the above.

The X-factor: I agree that technology will make a pharmacist's career a bit more precarious, but it's going to take another 30-50 years before that happens. Currently, the most rapid growth in pharmacy is in the retail sector with a new Walgreen's or CVS popping up on almost every corner, and each one needing pharmacists to man them. But don't you dare doubt that business will soon figure out how to minimize redundancy with the aid of technology. Just as radiology in medicine is being consolidated, I can see a bunch o' pharmacists in some building fielding prescriptions from those corner drugstores and robots or techs. dispensing the final meds. Naysayers will say that nothing can take the place of an actual pharmacist sitting behind the counter providing "counselling"... absolute bullsh**t. I guarantee that corporate bigwigs are working on how to minimize pharmacists even as we speak. And I absolutely guarantee that the customer will happily go along with it if they can pay ten bucks less for their meds. than some company who staffs human pharmacists at every store.

The verdict: If you are going to graduate pharmacy in the next 5 years, I'd go for it while there's still an upswing.
 
GoPistons said:
now that I really think about this, hell! just go get an MD and then bail and do consulting or something... it really is just a better overall 4 year degree every way you slice it... more job security, more respect, more opportunities, and more income...

consulting or something? what exactly would you be doing...what are some cool jobs you get an MD besides the one on one patient contact?
 
seizure415 said:
I believe that I am in a unique position to shed some light on this question. I am an MD (internal med) and my wife is a pharmacist. I have followed her training closely and have a pretty good idea of what a pharmacist's training is like.
I love what I do, and I have no regrets... but I gotta say that if I had to do it over again, I'd probably become a pharmacist. Being a male, I discounted pharmacy before I knew much about it (for whatever reason, it was female dominated through much of recent history). But I do see the benefits now:

Pharmacy: 4 years of schooling and you're out making 80-110k with good hours, decent amount of respect, and quite a few good years ahead of you. My wife went to a school with an accelerated program for their top applicants - 2 years undergrad and 3 years Pharmacy, she graduated pharm. school at age 22.

Medicine: Obligatory 4 years med school, 2-9 years of residency, sh**ty hours, high stress, huge debt, and the best years of your life working your ass off. Your respect level is unmatched though, and the satisfaction of being your patient's main caregiver may outweigh the above.

The verdict: If you are going to graduate pharmacy in the next 5 years, I'd go for it while there's still an upswing.


So you would do pharmacy because it is easier on you that being a doctor and is a decent paying/respected position?
 
Are you in high school or college? If you are in high school, I'd say you should do some volunteer works in both field. If you are a junior in college, I think you should really hurry up and do some volunteer works and get a mentor in both fields.
 
hello23 said:
Are you in high school or college? If you are in high school, I'd say you should do some volunteer works in both field. If you are a junior in college, I think you should really hurry up and do some volunteer works and get a mentor in both fields.

I have a BS Degree. I have checked out a pharmacy/shadowed pharmacist. Have been accepted into a pharmacy school. Havent shadowed a physician yet and have medical school in the back of my mind. In the mean time I was trying to just get different perspectives from people about the two fields; pharmacist vs. physician.
 
pharm1234 said:
I have a BS Degree. I have checked out a pharmacy/shadowed pharmacist. Have been accepted into a pharmacy school. Havent shadowed a physician yet and have medical school in the back of my mind. In the mean time I was trying to just get different perspectives from people about the two fields; pharmacist vs. physician.


I guess I have a unique perspective because I was a pharmacist for 3 years then went back to med school and now I'm about to start residency. I found that pharmacy was a wonderful profession but it was lacking in the fact that it did not take me as far into medicine as I wanted to go. I felt that pharmacy was a quite possibly the best undergrad preparation for med school. Pharm school is very difficult and forces you to learn how to learn. Most pharmacists who go into med school do very well in med school. Pharmacy as a profession is one that definetely has wonderful hours, great pay, and is a very respected field. I felt that hospital pharmacy can be intellectually more challenging than retail but retail has more patient interaction/contact. Remember, though, you really don't have to choose between pharm school and med school. You need undergrad to get into med school and you can do pharm then go to med school. That way, you can have a great profession to fall back on/and or help you fund med school in some part. I hope that helps. Please PM me if you have any more specific questions.
--IMbound
 
Man, go pharm all the way. Stay the **** away from medicine. By the time you can afford to have a good lifestyle in medicine, you should be retired anyway. Go medicine if you like to 1) work ridiculous hours during the week 2) come in on the weekends to round and 3) have no life in general. I can't tell you about the pharm lifestyle, but I do know that the pharm students I see when I'm on the floor with patients go home at a decent hour during the week. To hell with medicine. I would've never went to medical school if I really knew what it was like on the other side.


pharm1234 said:
I am deciding if I should go to medical school or pharmacy school.

Could someone tell me how it has been going through medical school? What to expect as a doctor? How much you make after malpractice insurance? Cost of school, debt when you come out? lifestyle-hours you should work a week as a doctor? stress level as a doctor? Is it worth being a doctor? Does it take a toll on you? Things you like about being a doctor? Things you don't like about being a doctor? Etc.

I appreciate any input. Thanks
 
pharm1234 said:
I am deciding if I should go to medical school or pharmacy school.

Could someone tell me how it has been going through medical school? What to expect as a doctor? How much you make after malpractice insurance? Cost of school, debt when you come out? lifestyle-hours you should work a week as a doctor? stress level as a doctor? Is it worth being a doctor? Does it take a toll on you? Things you like about being a doctor? Things you don't like about being a doctor? Etc.

I appreciate any input. Thanks


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