To pass or to (try to) honor?

[Restart13]

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What is your guys' overall opinion on honor/pass (if you guys have that) for medical school? My whole life I've always been the one to do the least amount of work to get what I want. This is not to say that I wasn't a good student, in undergrad I still got A's, I would just get the bare minimum for an A. Now in medical school, I almost know for sure I probably won't honor, so it's hard to actually force myself to study really hard to get like a 90-95% when 97%+ is honor. For me I would rather just chill and do things I like, rather than go nuts studying every second of the day (and I still do study a lot regardless).

There also is another factor too. For us, year 1 is mostly non-STEP1 material. I think if I were to be studying for somewhat STEP1 material maybe I'd be more likely to study harder. It's almost to the point where I feel guilty sometimes because I know I can do better. lol

 

[yehhhboiii]

boards and wards
preclinical years aren't there to teach you how to get a 270 on step 1
it's the basic foundation for being a doctor

 

[Restart13]

boards and wards
preclinical years aren't there to teach you how to get a 270 on step 1
it's the basic foundation for being a doctor

I'm not denying that, but I'm sure there's a difference between the significance of histology vs. pharmacology or microbiology.

 

[GangaMaster]

How could you think your year 1 has no affect on your step 1. It builds the foundation to understand all the things that are about to slap you in the face.

 

[Brain Bucket]

You get slapped no matter what you do. Then you get bent over...

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

Work hard to learn the material well. If you pass, that's fine. If you honor, that's just icing on the cake.

For us, year 1 is mostly non-STEP1 material. I think if I were to be studying for somewhat STEP1 material maybe I'd be more likely to study harder. It's almost to the point where I feel guilty sometimes because I know I can do better. lol...

...I'm not denying that, but I'm sure there's a difference between the significance of histology vs. pharmacology or microbiology.

I'm not sure why so many people think certain topics aren't important. Is a lot of M1 material less high-yield for Step 1? Sure. But it helps you better understand what you learn during M2 year, which is definitely high-yield for both Step 1 and real life. If you learn things well now, it'll make life a bit easier next year, which makes life a bit easier when you're reviewing for Step 1 and when you're on the wards. I'm not saying that you should memorize every bit of minutiae -- be reasonable about it. What I am saying is just don't blow it off as unimportant because it's less high-yield for Step 1. What you learn this year will give you a good foundation for learning path/pathophys next year.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Try to honor. If you can't or the stress is too much, try to make sure you are learning the basic material well and that the only questions you are missing are esoteric details about a professor's research.

 

[Porfirio]

P=MD, save your energy for Step 1.

 

[yehhhboiii]

P=MD, save your energy for Step 1.

i've heard a lot of people say that the best prep for step 1 is doing well in class

 

[evilbooyaa]

i've heard a lot of people say that the best prep for step 1 is doing well in class

That is true. As long as you are actually learning it and not hard cramming it into your head for regurgitation. Spaced repetition n'at.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm not sure why so many people think certain topics aren't important. Is a lot of M1 material less high-yield for Step 1? Sure. But it helps you better understand what you learn during M2 year, which is definitely high-yield for both Step 1 and real life. If you learn things well now, it'll make life a bit easier next year, which makes life a bit easier when you're reviewing for Step 1 and when you're on the wards. I'm not saying that you should memorize every bit of minutiae -- be reasonable about it. What I am saying is just don't blow it off as unimportant because it's less high-yield for Step 1. What you learn this year will give you a good foundation for learning path/pathophys next year.

I'll second this. I mean, some of M1 was just completely worthless, both for Step 1 and for clinical practice, but most of it is at least a good foundation. I think it'd make a lot more sense to teach the basics then go into the path/pathophys so the connection is a a little more obvious, but that's another issue. Anyway, it's good to at least have a handle on most M1 topics so M2 doesn't hit you like a ton of bricks.

i've heard a lot of people say that the best prep for step 1 is doing well in class

Your mileage may vary. That was NOT the case at Arkansas, generally speaking. Some professors are good about teaching you relevant topics and giving you common board questions and scenarios as an added bonus, but others forget that they've done 2 fellowships and practiced for 20 years and test over hopelessly specialized minutiae that you wouldn't need to know until halfway through residency. You'll just have to judge for yourself how important your class material is. That's one reason doing Step 1 practice questions during the year is important. You want to know the types of things that'll be important come test time.

 

[Dires]

You do your best while trying to stay healthy and happy. If that means honoring than so be it.

 

[Double A]

i think med students think about grading the wrong way. the letter grade itself should not matter nearly as much as your class rank to residency programs. you said honoring is a 97% at your school? it's a 90 at mine... even if they were the same it wouldn't account for inter school differences. if this is true then the whole "im not going to honor anyway so it doesnt matter what i get as long as i pass" is wrong - an 87% vs a 90% will move you up or down in your class rank so it really does matter. tell me if i'm wrong.

i realize this has nothing to do with step 1.

 

[NickNaylor]

You do your best while trying to stay healthy and happy. If that means honoring than so be it.

This is really what it comes down to I think, especially at a true P/F school. If you want to work hard and learn everything you possibly can, you should do that. There are some people that get satisfaction with working very hard. If you don't really care about learning every little thing, then do the best you can, learn what you think is appropriate/important, and do what you want with the remainder of your time.

I think the comments about M1 material being critical to future material are obviously true, but there are definitely diminishing returns and your experience will likely vary due to differences among institutions. I would summarize it thus: doing extremely well in M1/2 is obviously helpful, but not doing well (particularly in M1) does not portend doom. I barely passed most M1 exams and get more honors than not on clinical evals and hold my own on the shelfs. It's not as if once you get past M1 you can't learn the material again later on. In fact, you almost certainly will have to.

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[tco]

I hope you're never my physician.

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[tco]

I hope you're never my physician.

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This was directed to the OP and anyone lazy enough to not learn something because they don't feel like it.

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[NickNaylor]

This was directed to the OP and anyone lazy enough to not learn something because they don't feel like it.

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Seems like a pretty ridiculous standard, especially if you actually want to do something with your life other than medicine.

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[tco]

Seems like a pretty ridiculous standard, especially if you actually want to do something with your life other than medicine.

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Why would I want a doctor that wants to do anything with their life other than medicine? I can think of a few examples of physicians that eat, sleep, and breathe medicine and they are head and shoulders better than their colleagues.

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[NickNaylor]

Why would I want a doctor that wants to do anything with their life other than medicine? I can think of a few examples of physicians that eat, sleep, and breathe medicine and they are head and shoulders better than their colleagues.

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Well, sure. I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But wanting something and getting something are different things. Obviously I would prefer to see the internist that has Harrison's and Robbins memorized, but that's not realistic because almost no one is going to do that. And for good reason, I'd say. I'm sure there are things you refuse to learn because there is no reason for you to know them and yet learning them would likely result in a deeper understanding of medicine (or whatever feel-good phrase you prefer). Physicians are just people, not living versions of UpToDate.

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[tco]

Well, sure. I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But wanting something and getting something are different things. Obviously I would prefer to see the internist that has Harrison's and Robbins memorized, but that's not realistic because almost no one is going to do that. And for good reason, I'd say. I'm sure there are things you refuse to learn because there is no reason for you to know them and yet learning them would likely result in a deeper understanding of medicine (or whatever feel-good phrase you prefer). Physicians are just people, not living versions of UpToDate.

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It's interesting that you're making conclusions about me without even knowing the first initial of my first name.

You keep deepening my understanding that you're an idiot.

Edit: Don't worry, mods...It won't turn into a flame war...I found the ignore button on the *NEW* SDN.

 

[NickNaylor]

It's interesting that you're making conclusions about me without even knowing the first initial of my first name.

You keep deepening my understanding that you're an idiot.

Edit: Don't worry, mods...It won't turn into a flame war...I found the ignore button on the *NEW* SDN.

😕


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[Wordead]

Well, sure. I don't think anyone would disagree with you. But wanting something and getting something are different things. Obviously I would prefer to see the internist that has Harrison's and Robbins memorized, but that's not realistic because almost no one is going to do that. And for good reason, I'd say. I'm sure there are things you refuse to learn because there is no reason for you to know them and yet learning them would likely result in a deeper understanding of medicine (or whatever feel-good phrase you prefer). Physicians are just people, not living versions of UpToDate.

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It's not wanting a doctor that has everything memorized. It's wanting a doctor that is hard working, not a lazy POS that isn't willing to do more than the bare minimum. You are right that physicians are people, and everyone loses sight of that sometimes. However, a real person would realize that you will have people's lives in your hands. Not making a concerted effort makes you a useless human being in my opinion.

 

[NickNaylor]

It's not wanting a doctor that has everything memorized. It's wanting a doctor that is hard working, not a lazy POS that isn't willing to do more than the bare minimum. You are right that physicians are people, and everyone loses sight of that sometimes. However, a real person would realize that you will have people's lives in your hands. Not making a concerted effort makes you a useless human being in my opinion.

Definitely agree with you there. However, to extrapolate a particular student's attitude in MS1 and make the classic "you're going to be a ****ty doctor" argument is a bit presumptuous, no? Performance in MS1 in the big scheme of things isn't really indicative of much. I would agree if we were talking about a resident who was actually caring for people and shouldering responsibility. However, MS1 is glorified college, so I find it silly to think that not taking it seriously therefore implies that you don't care about treating patients or being a great clinician.

 

[Wordead]

Definitely agree with you there. However, to extrapolate a particular student's attitude in MS1 and make the classic "you're going to be a ****ty doctor" argument is a bit presumptuous, no? Performance in MS1 in the big scheme of things isn't really indicative of much. I would agree if we were talking about a resident who was actually caring for people and shouldering responsibility. However, MS1 is glorified college, so I find it silly to think that not taking it seriously therefore implies that you don't care about treating patients or being a great clinician.

You're right, of course, that M1 is kinda useless in the grand scheme of things. But attitude? Does that really go from 0 to 100 over like 1-2 years?

 

[Dires]

It's interesting that you're making conclusions about me without even knowing the first initial of my first name.

You keep deepening my understanding that you're an idiot.

Edit: Don't worry, mods...It won't turn into a flame war...I found the ignore button on the *NEW* SDN.

WTF...

 

[NickNaylor]

You're right, of course, that M1 is kinda useless in the grand scheme of things. But attitude? Does that really go from 0 to 100 over like 1-2 years?

Eh, maybe. Several then-MS3s that I spoke with who admitted to "losing their way," so to speak, during MS2 became much more interested (dare I say, "inspired") once they got onto the wards. That doesn't necessarily make the whole situation better of course, but I think it's easier to study the minutiae when you can see in a very direct way how learning various things can have a clear and obvious impact on your ability to treat someone.

Not everyone's going to be like that of course. I'm just not convinced that not taking MS1 seriously = doesn't care at all.

 

[MilkmanAl]

It's not wanting a doctor that has everything memorized. It's wanting a doctor that is hard working, not a lazy POS that isn't willing to do more than the bare minimum.

I'm not sure why people in medicine are so quick to create dichotomies like this one. Not burying yourself in advanced texts and journal articles during all of your waking hours doesn't automatically make you lazy. There's a huge spectrum spanning the gap between those things. I'd imagine most of us fall toward the more intense side, if for no other reason than the fact that passing licensure and board exams requires such an effort.

 

[Wordead]

I'm not sure why people in medicine are so quick to create dichotomies like this one. Not burying yourself in advanced texts and journal articles during all of your waking hours doesn't automatically make you lazy. There's a huge spectrum spanning the gap between those things. I'd imagine most of us fall toward the more intense side, if for no other reason than the fact that passing licensure and board exams requires such an effort.

It wasn't really a dichotomy. You just made it into one. I don't spend all hours studying; far from it. But I work hard, and look for ways to improve. That doesn't require advanced texts - I usually focus on common things, emergent things, procedural skills.

I always find people like the OP irritating - obviously intelligent if he's been doing so well with minimal effort. Just imagine what he could do if it put some damn effort into it.

 

[gregoryhouse]

I think more important than honoring classes is actually understanding the material well. Theres a difference in not honoring classes because you don't understand the material well enough and not honoring classes because teachers are asking very specific minutia

IMO at least

 

[notbobtrustme]

The only really worthwhile subject from M1 is going to be physiology.

 

[tantacles]

The only really worthwhile subject from M1 is going to be physiology.

Depends on your school. Some people take immuno/micro during first year, and bugs and drugs are definitely worthwhile to know.

 

[Renaissance Man]

I was always of the opinion that you should treat medical school learning like a job. Put in the hours of a full time job (obviously more right before a test) and whatever you get, you should feel good about. I don't think that anyone who is doing preclinical years correctly needs to spend more than 40-50 hours per week on the material. For some people this means honors, others this means passing. Btw, this all goes out the window during study week, or Step 1 study period.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Depends on your school. Some people take immuno/micro during first year, and bugs and drugs are definitely worthwhile to know.

Didn't realize some schools did that. Then what do they take 2nd year in lieu of Micro/Immuno?

 

[tantacles]

Didn't realize some schools did that. Then what do they take 2nd year in lieu of Micro/Immuno?

No idea. Not all schools have the same schedule, though.

 

[NickNaylor]

Didn't realize some schools did that. Then what do they take 2nd year in lieu of Micro/Immuno?

We did both in MS1. MS2 for us consisted of neuro, pharm, and pathophys in addition to the usual stuff (e.g., clinical skills).

 

[yehhhboiii]

Didn't realize some schools did that. Then what do they take 2nd year in lieu of Micro/Immuno?

we had a short micro course first year and then relevant bugs popped up throughout the organ systems