To rotate at home or not...

[elkchaser]

My home program, UofWashington, seems to be a great program, but my wife and I have already decided that we can't stay in Seattle due to the outrageous cost of living here. So, we will almost definitely NOT be staying and I'm wondering what the cost/benefit of doing a Path rotation here would be. Right now, I'm thinking that it will be more beneficial to use that rotation time somewhere in the Midwest where we will more likely end up. However, it may also be beneficial to rotate here and to get a good letter of rec. Also, does not rotating at home look unfavorable on an application? Just sitting here during my Psych clerkship planning 4th year...

Raghorn

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[b&ierstiefel]

I don't know how easy or hard it is to get a letter of rec from an away rotation. Pathology attendings are pretty chill and laid back for the most part who will be happy to help out anyone going into their field so I don't foresee a problem. However ERAS is a bitch and securing recommendations is hard enough.

Hopefully you can do 2-3 path rotations. I would recommend perhaps doing the first one early on and at your home institution. Sure, you'll get a lot of questions like, "So do you wanna stay here?" That way you can nail 1-2 solid letters of recs before you rotate elsewhere.

I don't know if you want to do an away rotation at Michigan or not but I haven't heard of any stories of anyone, early in 4th year, who rotated in our path department and came from another institution. I would recommend emailing or calling Joe Fantone (the PD here) EARLY if you wanted to get your hat in the ring.

 

[yaah]

I don't know if you want to do an away rotation at Michigan or not but I haven't heard of any stories of anyone, early in 4th year, who rotated in our path department and came from another institution. I would recommend emailing or calling Joe Fantone (the PD here) EARLY if you wanted to get your hat in the ring.

There was a nice young man rotating through in august from Spartan Land up in Lansing!

But yeah, it's often tough for outside students to get rotations at ANY path department because they tend to save spots for their own students.

Just because you aren't staying there doesn't mean you can't do a rotation at home. It can be expensive to do too many away rotations. After all, many people who do path rotations have no plans to pursue path anyway. And sometimes it is easier to get a letter from a home institution because you are in school there and things are just more familiar for everyone involved.

 

[elkchaser]

Thanks, fellas. I'm trying to figure out how I can spend most of 4th year away to save a little money. I have only 2 required 4 week clerkships in Seattle, and the rest can be done at away-institutions or in the northwest (WWAMI-land). Think I'll take your advice and do a home Path rotation in July and then hit the road for a couple of away rotations (hopefully Utah and one midwest rotation). Thank you both for your help on this forum.

Spikebull

 

[cytoborg]

I second the advice to do a home rotation in order to get letters of rec. At UWash you likely have some great faculty who can fill your ERAS app with power letters...not to mention give you good advice. Also, it is a low stress opportunity to get a feel for what a path residency is like, figure out what questions to ask once you start interviewing, get advice from your home residents, etc. On an away rotation you will be "on" the entire time just like an extended interview so you may or may not get (or feel comfortable asking for) candid advice from the residents. I certainly do recommend away rotations. I did not do any, and now am regretting it.

BTW, care to fill us in on the cost of living in Seattle? I didn't realize it was that bad. Will be interviewing there shortly so any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Doctor B.]

I third (or fourth or whatever) the advice of Andy, yaah and cytoborg above. Do one month at your home institution to secure a letter of rec. Set up aways at other places if you want to. I actually only did path rotations at my home institution and managed to match where I wanted (not my home institution----we didn't have path residency there). I think path is more competitive now than 3 years ago though.

 

[elkchaser]

Cytoborg-

I'm from Montana, so maybe the cost of living thing just seems outrageous compared to my experience with rent. We live in 950 sq.ft. 2 bedroom relatively close to campus for $1300/month. Probably not bad compared to SF or NYC, but much more than I'm willing to pay much longer.

Mostly, though, I'm thinking of the future, and with a family (already have a 6 mo. old), I'd like to buy a home with a yard, get a dog, and start living like I'm 30 years old, not like I'm still in college. Not doable in Seattle. Also, I'm tired of pouring $1300 away every month when I could get a decent 3-bedroom home in the midwest with a mortgage payment well under $1000. Equity! Trashy 2 bedroom homes within reasonable distance of campus here are over $300,000, and we would be stuck in a 2 bedroom condo for $250,000. Just not what I have in mind for the next 5 years.

Seattle, however, is great! Nice people, great many things to do sports-wise or otherwise. Very Left leaning, but some people are into that. Friendly as hell for a metropolitan area, and good public transportation.

Just time for us to make a move.

6pointer

 

[LADoc00]

Cytoborg-

I'm from Montana, so maybe the cost of living thing just seems outrageous compared to my experience with rent. We live in 950 sq.ft. 2 bedroom relatively close to campus for $1300/month. Probably not bad compared to SF or NYC, but much more than I'm willing to pay much longer.

Mostly, though, I'm thinking of the future, and with a family (already have a 6 mo. old), I'd like to buy a home with a yard, get a dog, and start living like I'm 30 years old, not like I'm still in college. Not doable in Seattle. Also, I'm tired of pouring $1300 away every month when I could get a decent 3-bedroom home in the midwest with a mortgage payment well under $1000. Equity! Trashy 2 bedroom homes within reasonable distance of campus here are over $300,000, and we would be stuck in a 2 bedroom condo for $250,000. Just not what I have in mind for the next 5 years.

Seattle, however, is great! Nice people, great many things to do sports-wise or otherwise. Very Left leaning, but some people are into that. Friendly as hell for a metropolitan area, and good public transportation.

Just time for us to make a move.

6pointer

HELLO story of my life! Minus the baby of course. This is the problem we ALL have: medicine pay is going down but cost of crap is going through the roof!!

 

[yaah]

HELLO story of my life! Minus the baby of course. This is the problem we ALL have: medicine pay is going down but cost of crap is going through the roof!!

The main problem is not, in my opinion, that the cost of crap is going up, it is that there is so much MORE crap that is necessary or desirable. Back in the day, you had a tv with an antenna and a phone and some electricity. Now there is damn cable and internet and cell phones and DVDs and video games and online garbage and memberships and it just goes on...

Thank goodness I don't have an I pod.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

IPod's are teh roxorz!

 

[yaah]

Damn government taking all of my hard earned $$$ to fund their stupid campaigns and research into migratory patterns of turtles and idiotic education initiatives and donations to corrupt regimes and big honking stealth weapons.

 

[jeff2005]

My home program, UofWashington, seems to be a great program, but my wife and I have already decided that we can't stay in Seattle due to the outrageous cost of living here. So, we will almost definitely NOT be staying and I'm wondering what the cost/benefit of doing a Path rotation here would be. Right now, I'm thinking that it will be more beneficial to use that rotation time somewhere in the Midwest where we will more likely end up. However, it may also be beneficial to rotate here and to get a good letter of rec. Also, does not rotating at home look unfavorable on an application? Just sitting here during my Psych clerkship planning 4th year...

Raghorn

I'm likely headed to the midwest too. As time goes by I found myself dismissing great programs that are in expensive locations (Mass General in Boston for example). I have a family also and I too am anxious to get that house with the big yard.

 

[cytoborg]

Thank you Elkchaser for the inside scoop on Seattle. I'm glad for the heads up as I didn't realize rents were so high! Definitely something to think about as I ponder making 35-40K for the next four to five years...oh yeah, and pay off 100K of medschool debt, too.

 

[LADoc00]

Hold the horses people....dont pass up MGH for Hoboken State because of cost of living...The difference is salt in the sea when you start looking for jobs for the big $$$, trust me think long termMmMMmmmm.

 

[jeff2005]

Hold the horses people....dont pass up MGH for Hoboken State because of cost of living...The difference is salt in the sea when you start looking for jobs for the big $$$, trust me think long termMmMMmmmm.

First of all I don't think I'm going to be living in a shelter because I decide to go to Iowa. In fact, I think the job market is pretty good in the Midwest and I'll do just fine. And second, it is most important to me that my family be happy and that I have time/energy to see them. My life is not only about my career and making the big $$$.

 

[cytoborg]

I doubt Iowa falls under the Hoboken state category...isn't that a pretty solid program? LADoc probably just doesn't want us to get carried away.

In the same vein, LADoc, considering your locale, I'd be curious to know your thoughts on Harbor. On paper it looks like a tiny program, and I've never heard much about it. Assuming that one had interviews at all the other LA programs - would you decline this one?

 

[yaah]

Almost everyone you talk to on your interview travels, if you mention you are or have interviewed at Iowa, will comment favorably. It is top shelf. A great teaching program, and resident training is their priority, which is more than I can say for a large number of good programs. Everything they do is done with the question of "how will this affect residency training" in mind.

You also may notice how many Iowa med grads go into pathology. A higher percentage than most US med schools. There is a reason for all of this.

 

[Doctor B.]

First of all I don't think I'm going to be living in a shelter because I decide to go to Iowa. In fact, I think the job market is pretty good in the Midwest and I'll do just fine. And second, it is most important to me that my family be happy and that I have time/energy to see them. My life is not only about my career and making the big $$$.

Right on, man. Iowa is an excellent place to train and family time/happiness is infinitely more important than making mad endz.

 

[yaah]

Right on, man. Iowa is an excellent place to train and family time/happiness is infinitely more important than making mad endz.

But with big bank you can buy yourself a hot wife and some problem-free children, and skip the diaper years.

 

[jeff2005]

But with big bank you can buy yourself a hot wife and some problem-free children, and skip the diaper years.

I've already got a hot husband and a problem-free child so I guess I'm just lucky! (Yes, I'm a woman)

In any case when I looked at average salaries of pathologists a while back, the Midwest and the South came out on top. The coastal markets are oversaturated.

 

[QuietSylph]

In any case when I looked at average salaries of pathologists a while back, the Midwest and the South came out on top. The coastal markets are oversaturated.

This fits with my understanding too -- the pathology job market is very strong in the Midwest and South according to many attendings I've spoken with.