To SOAP or not

[SammyPsych]

I found out today that I, unfortunately, did not match into psychiatry. I am in a US allopathic medical school and have no red flags on my application. Passed every course.
Step 1: mid 21*
Step 2: Upper 24*
CS: Pass first try.
I only had 5 interviews because I unfortunately did not apply widely enough and was hurt by it. Next year I would apply to every program that is geographically possible (Very restricted due to significant other), which would approximately double the number of programs I am applying to.
I am very committed to psych and would like to apply again rather than SOAP into a different field. As I said, I am geographically restricted so there are no psychiatry programs I can SOAP into. My question is whether it's better to do a serious research year and reapply, or to SOAP into a prelim year and reapply? Let me know your thoughts.

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[fenders567]

I'm so sorry to read about your struggle. I don't have first hand experience with this but from second hand information I'd say to SOAP into prelim and reapply as a PGY-2. I have heard of several programs that save PGY-2 spots for people coming from other specialities. And it will allow you to be gainfully employed while gaining valuable clinical experience. You can also form relationships with the admin at your home program. All that is preferential to 1 year of research which in the scheme of things isn't too much. As well as the fact that research isn't the main focus of most psychiatry residency programs. Best wishes to you!

 

[visceral0775]

I'm so sorry to read about your struggle. I don't have first hand experience with this but from second hand information I'd say to SOAP into prelim and reapply as a PGY-2. I have heard of several programs that save PGY-2 spots for people coming from other specialities. And it will allow you to be gainfully employed while gaining valuable clinical experience. You can also form relationships with the admin at your home program. All that is preferential to 1 year of research which in the scheme of things isn't too much. As well as the fact that research isn't the main focus of most psychiatry residency programs. Best wishes to you!

Anyone happen to have a list of programs that hold PGY-2 spots?

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I don't have a list of PGY-2 spots, but most of them are spontaneous. There are programs with built in PGY-2 expansion, but most of them are due to someone leaving. This means that they are not geographically dependable for the most part. You can get lucky, but doing a transitional year and then getting into psych means being flexible, or it means starting over as a PGY-I. As painful as it may be, doing a transitional year will teach you a lot and looks much better than hanging out for a year and hoping for the best. I say go for the transitional year, try to get a PGY-2 spot, decide if your location means starting over as a PGY-1 is worth it and go from there. The year of hard work will not kill you and it puts you in a much stronger position to get what you want.

 

[visceral0775]

I don't have a list of PGY-2 spots, but most of them are spontaneous. There are programs with built in PGY-2 expansion, but most of them are due to someone leaving. This means that they are not geographically dependable for the most part. You can get lucky, but doing a transitional year and then getting into psych means being flexible, or it means starting over as a PGY-I. As painful as it may be, doing a transitional year will teach you a lot and looks much better than hanging out for a year and hoping for the best. I say go for the transitional year, try to get a PGY-2 spot, decide if your location means starting over as a PGY-1 is worth it and go from there. The year of hard work will not kill you and it puts you in a much stronger position to get what you want.

Thanks for your response. I am already doing PGY-1 year in a different specialty, and I was hoping to find more PGY-2 positions in Psych but it’s been very tough as they are hard to come by :/

 

[fenders567]

Thanks for your response. I am already doing PGY-1 year in a different specialty, and I was hoping to find more PGY-2 positions in Psych but it’s been very tough as they are hard to come by :/

I've heard of University of New Mexico, Columbia, Cornell I think. APA clearinghouse advertises usually for unexpected spots throughout the year

Psychiatry Residency Training Program Vacancies

The Clearinghouse is APA's free service to residents, students and residency programs.

www.psychiatry.org

 

[bobby pen]

If you are from an institution with a psych residency, talk to your psych PD and if not make friends with the psych PD at your new program. Talk to them about sharing AADPRT openings with you. There will be openings all around the country next year and PDs will ask others if there are quality candidates for these spots or to share these openings with possible candidates. This will be the most helpful as most places won’t advertise their PGY-2 openings. Good luck!

 

[DreamofClinical]

Hopkins has a few each year. They are competitive.

 

[visceral0775]

If you are from an institution with a psych residency, talk to your psych PD and if not make friends with the psych PD at your new program. Talk to them about sharing AADPRT openings with you. There will be openings all around the country next year and PDs will ask others if there are quality candidates for these spots or to share these openings with possible candidates. This will be the most helpful as most places won’t advertise their PGY-2 openings. Good luck!

Hello, thanks for your response. I did reach out to the Psych PD at my current institution as well as the program coordinator 2 separate times...no response. At this point, should I ask my own PD to reach out to them?

 

[bobby pen]

Hello, thanks for your response. I did reach out to the Psych PD at my current institution as well as the program coordinator 2 separate times...no response. At this point, should I ask my own PD to reach out to them?

I would wait. Right now PDs are really busy post match, so they might not respond right away. There will be plenty of time next year to speak with the PD at your new institution or you could talk in person right before residency starts (Which might be helpful and put a face to the emails). Your current Pd could forward these openings to you as well if you ask. I know things seem pressing right now, but you have have time to plan for next year and still match into psych or get a second year spot. So don’t feel rushed to get things done right away. Places that have open 2nd year spots btw..Hopkins, UW, Cornell, Emory, U Maryland, U New Mexico, Yale, Baylor( I think), & UIC (not 100% sure on that). Also keep checking APA clearing house and there’s a forum here on SDN that might post or list open spots. There could be others but those are the ones I heard of as of 3 years ago. Go to program web sites and look and you could get more up to date info.

 

[visceral0775]

I would wait. Right now PDs are really busy post match, so they might not respond right away. There will be plenty of time next year to speak with the PD at your new institution or you could talk in person right before residency starts (Which might be helpful and put a face to the emails). Your current Pd could forward these openings to you as well if you ask. I know things seem pressing right now, but you have have time to plan for next year and still match into psych or get a second year spot. So don’t feel rushed to get things done right away. Places that have open 2nd year spots btw..Hopkins, UW, Cornell, Emory, U Maryland, U New Mexico, Yale, Baylor( I think), & UIC (not 100% sure on that). Also keep checking APA clearing house and there’s a forum here on SDN that might post or list open spots. There could be others but those are the ones I heard of as of 3 years ago. Go to program web sites and look and you could get more up to date info.

Hello, When you say next year, do you mean once after July 2020? I am currently a PGY-1 in a totally different specialty so I’m thinking it probably isn’t best to switch once I’ve already started my PGY-2 year bc then my current residency will have to shift everything around.

 

[visceral0775]

I would wait. Right now PDs are really busy post match, so they might not respond right away. There will be plenty of time next year to speak with the PD at your new institution or you could talk in person right before residency starts (Which might be helpful and put a face to the emails). Your current Pd could forward these openings to you as well if you ask. I know things seem pressing right now, but you have have time to plan for next year and still match into psych or get a second year spot. So don’t feel rushed to get things done right away. Places that have open 2nd year spots btw..Hopkins, UW, Cornell, Emory, U Maryland, U New Mexico, Yale, Baylor( I think), & UIC (not 100% sure on that). Also keep checking APA clearing house and there’s a forum here on SDN that might post or list open spots. There could be others but those are the ones I heard of as of 3 years ago. Go to program web sites and look and you could get more up to date info.

I also previously applied to Psych (as well as the current specialty I’m in) and I even interviewed with the psych PD at the hospital where I’m at now. I was thinking that would be helpful as they’ve already met me, but who knows? Thanks again for your help.

 

[J ROD]

I found out today that I, unfortunately, did not match into psychiatry. I am in a US allopathic medical school and have no red flags on my application. Passed every course.
Step 1: mid 21*
Step 2: Upper 24*
CS: Pass first try.
I only had 5 interviews because I unfortunately did not apply widely enough and was hurt by it. Next year I would apply to every program that is geographically possible (Very restricted due to significant other), which would approximately double the number of programs I am applying to.
I am very committed to psych and would like to apply again rather than SOAP into a different field. As I said, I am geographically restricted so there are no psychiatry programs I can SOAP into. My question is whether it's better to do a serious research year and reapply, or to SOAP into a prelim year and reapply? Let me know your thoughts.

Do a transition year. Also you should consider your interview abilities. Moreover you probably will have to decide whether you want to match or be close to your partner if she is not able or willing to move.

 

[bobby pen]

Hello, When you say next year, do you mean once after July 2020? I am currently a PGY-1 in a totally different specialty so I’m thinking it probably isn’t best to switch once I’ve already started my PGY-2 year bc then my current residency will have to shift everything around.

Sorry, I thought this was an answer for a MS4. As a current pgy-1 In a different specialty, Im not sure what you’re hoping to accomplish?...Are you going to try and transfer to a Pgy2 psych position at the end of this year?... Or are you attempting to transfer into a possible open Psych slot in your current program?
Either way If you are looking to transfer to a pgy-2 slot in a psych program, ( and I don’t mean this to sound harsh) you should have been in contact with your homePD, the current PD in your new institution, & applied for pgy-1 spots through the match this year (all of this should have began in July of last year or earlier). It’s a little late for any of the pgy-2 spots I listed as they have all probably been filled and the match is already over. Right now If I were you id contact your home PD and the new program PD, see what your options are & if there are any openings through the AADPRT.

 

[pisekar]

a little bit late reply, but your first choice needs to be SOAP and find a clinical position. It can be transitional year, prelim or another residency, it just needs to be a clinical experience. Once you secure a spot, you can have a better chance for the next match year. Research can be an option if you don't match during SOAP. Once you start to do research, you will be away from clinical rotations and it will be more difficult (not impossible).

 

[Stagg737]

Hopkins has a few each year. They are competitive.

Does that happen on a regular basis? Seems like kind of a red flag, even if the training is great...

 

[aim-agm]

Does that happen on a regular basis? Seems like kind of a red flag, even if the training is great...

They are spots set aside for PGY2 specifically. A number of programs do it

 

[Stagg737]

They are spots set aside for PGY2 specifically. A number of programs do it

Whats the utility of this as opposed to just taking more interns? Call pool?

 

[visceral0775]

Sorry, I thought this was an answer for a MS4. As a current pgy-1 In a different specialty, Im not sure what you’re hoping to accomplish?...Are you going to try and transfer to a Pgy2 psych position at the end of this year?... Or are you attempting to transfer into a possible open Psych slot in your current program?
Either way If you are looking to transfer to a pgy-2 slot in a psych program, ( and I don’t mean this to sound harsh) you should have been in contact with your homePD, the current PD in your new institution, & applied for pgy-1 spots through the match this year (all of this should have began in July of last year or earlier). It’s a little late for any of the pgy-2 spots I listed as they have all probably been filled and the match is already over. Right now If I were you id contact your home PD and the new program PD, see what your options are & if there are any openings through the AADPRT.

My goal was to switch into a PGY-2 position come July 2020 as many programs reserve these types of spots for transfers. I already spoke to my PD back in January and he write me a LOR and I even applied via ERAS. Additionally, I did reach out the the Psych PD at my current hospital-no response. This is why I previously asked if I should ask my PD to reach out.

 

[solitarius]

Five interviews is enough to match, and many *matched* applicants got that number or fewer.

SOAP is preferable for most applicants and frankly it should be considered the backup plan as opposed to a transitional year.

For future applicants who do not match, I would recommend the following:
1. SOAP into open psych positions regardless if it´s a community/corporate sweatshop
2. If you are on the cusp of competitiveness and have access to research faculty with likelihood of publications, SOAP into transitional year and do research remotely and re-apply into Psych.
3. If you are not on the cusp of competitiveness, SOAP into primary care.