To those of you who would NOT do it again...

[Solideliquid]

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I am new to this forum, so let me give you all a little info about me.
I am currently an MSIV, male 25 year old, currently doing a lazy path elective which is my second to last, and I have applied to many residency programs via ERAS just today.

I went to an off-shore school called St. Matthews, which is in the Cayman Islands ( 🙂 ) not too bad an experience, tropical island, all the technology you can find in a major US city. I even joined their MD/MS program and went to Portland, ME for 8 months which was nice. Overall my first two years were pleasant. I got married before 2nd year started, got a dog and moved to Maine with my new family and had a blast.

I then started my clinical rotations, which is the time you get some real insight of what practicing medicine is like. I am going into psychiatry next year, it is a very laid-back field which fits me like a glove. Hopefully I can make $200,000/yr after 2-3 years in practice. My wife is making almost $60,000 now and by the time I finish residency she will make around $100,000 in law. I may not have children so, if that is the case my life will be stable financially, and I will have many plasma TV's and jetskis (j/l 🙂).

As to your questions: Will med school be hard: YES. If you have good study skills you will be OK the first two years. The last two years are different- yes, you will not sleep much, yes attendings will yell at you, embarass you, other students will walk over you for any advantage. One during my surgery rotation I was with a thoracic surgeon for 4 weeks and when I couldnt tell him every detail conerning the valvular diseases he basically told me I was a ****** and he hoped he never lived in a city where I practiced. That day was hard.

I had many days like this- but I have a solid defense system. I am not sensative, I am able to brush things off, and I am able to ignore most of the things attendings/residents do to abuse students. That I think, is the key to survival. Learn to take some personal time for your self during medical school, I like how a previous poster discussed his many excuses for missing a page, I always pulled stuff like that, just to be home early to spend time with my wife.

Would I do it again? It would certainly be an interesting decision- if a time machine suddenly appeared and I could go back to the time before starting medical school...hmmm. There are many other medicine fields you can go into without getting the MD. PA, MS, and more. If I DID choose an alternative, I would have gone with a masters in psychology and became a non-physician mental health therapist. I know many people doing that, and they make $85,000-$100,000/yr.

Over-all I am in a good place, sure I have a lot of debt, but just keep your head down and remember the positive things in life you will enjoy it more.

"Always look at the bright side of your life..." -From As Good As It Gets.

 

[NinerNiner999]

$400k is EASILY obtainable in most specialized fields, anesthesia, Surgery, and Pathology (yes- pathology). Will you start out at that? probably not (although some do), but after 10 years or so of practice, if you AREN'T making at least $350-400 in the private world, you are either hardly working or doing something else...

 

[lexrageorge]

Hail,

You are doing the right thing by exploring all your options before committing yourself to a long and arduous process. Just a couple of comments:

- If working with your friends in the bar business sounds exciting to you, by all means go and try it out. If it does not work out, you can always fall back and go to med school. A couple of years will not make that much difference in the long run.

- However, you want to make sure it is something you want to do. ALL jobs have their downside (that's way it's called WORK and not PLAY). You are seeing your friends reap the benefits, but there is probably a less glamorous part you are not seeing. Running a business, any business, requires tremendous effort. If you're heart is not into it, it can be very painful. It can also be VERY rewarding in ways other than financial.

- Make sure you understand exactly what your friends will expect of you if you join them, and how much you will get out of it. They did take all of the initial risk to start this gig; you're going to be entering the business at a different point, so don't expect your compensation to be as lucrative, at least not right away. In the long run, however, if the business is successful, you should share in the wealth.

- One downside to the bar business is liability. Every so often you hear stories about someone having a drink at a bar and then going out and getting himself killed (or killing someone else in the process). The victim's relatives sue, and the jury assumes the bar owners are guilty because they are "rich". Make absolutely sure that the business has appropriate liability coverage. And hire your own attorney to do whatever you can to protect your own PERSONAL assets from any lawsuit arising from the business. Don't skimp on this step just because you don't think you have many personal assets. In a worst case scenario, you could find your future earnings as a physician be garnished to pay for an outrageous jury award.

- Is there risk? Sure. Despite what your friends may claim, there is no guarantee that past success will continue, or that the casino biz will work. But, you're young, and, if you have you're heart set on working with your buddies, do it. You will have plenty of time in the future to pursue other interests.

- Finally, there are plenty of ways to set a positive example for your family in just about any business, and plenty of ways to do so outside of your occupation.

 

[(nicedream)]

How did your friends get the capital and liquor licenses? That's tough.

As for "EASILY making 400k in most specialized fields, anesthesia, surgery, and pathology" -that's quite an overstatement. More like 250-300.

 

[NinerNiner999]

Are you kidding me? Become partner in private practice in ANY of those fields and $250-300 is base salary. 10 years + in the same practice and you've been doing something really wrong if you're not there. Seriously.

 

[backontop]

dude, are you serious?? now i'm gonna call you on this. show me evidence of those salary ranges, cause i can certainly can show you evidence to the contrary.

also, i don't like your materialistic attitude about medicine. 400K EASILY obtainable??? doing something wrong if you're not making that?? You should go into a field cause you love doing it. what are people in pediatrics supposed to think when they are reading this thread?? Who knows, maybe you'll make that; but don't berate others for choosing down right noble fields cause they love them.

I'm not an expert on this but i think we need the cornerstones of medicine the most. In other words, the primary care people who get F'd on a daily basis...: internal, ob, surg, peds, fm. Let's face it, certain specialties are more important than others. Without OB, we're sooo screwed.... women will always have kids... It sickens me to think that these aren't the highest paid. I get totally enraged when i look at some pediatricians salaries.... you can not deny that the system is screwed up.

but guess what: things are improving and will improve. in my opinion, we are at a trough, and i am seeing evidence of things potentially getting better. Let's face it: we have the monopoly of the knowledge. You can not teach Ray the accountant medicine if we went on strike. We have all of the power but none of the unity. Doctors are sharks; everyone is smarter than everyone else in the room. Businesses know this and are able to mow over us. We should be smarter than this.


also, path beats em. it's not even close.

 

[Solideliquid]

dude, are you serious?? now i'm gonna call you on this. show me evidence of those salary ranges, cause i can certainly can show you evidence to the contrary.

also, i don't like your materialistic attitude about medicine. 400K EASILY obtainable??? doing something wrong if you're not making that?? You should go into a field cause you love doing it. what are people in pediatrics supposed to think when they are reading this thread?? Who knows, maybe you'll make that; but don't berate others for choosing down right noble fields cause they love them.

I'm not an expert on this but i think we need the cornerstones of medicine the most. In other words, the primary care people who get F'd on a daily basis...: internal, ob, surg, peds, fm. Let's face it, certain specialties are more important than others. Without OB, we're sooo screwed.... women will always have kids... It sickens me to think that these aren't the highest paid. I get totally enraged when i look at some pediatricians salaries.... you can not deny that the system is screwed up.

but guess what: things are improving and will improve. in my opinion, we are at a trough, and i am seeing evidence of things potentially getting better. Let's face it: we have the monopoly of the knowledge. You can not teach Ray the accountant medicine if we went on strike. We have all of the power but none of the unity. Doctors are sharks; everyone is smarter than everyone else in the room. Businesses know this and are able to mow over us. We should be smarter than this.


also, path beats em. it's not even close.

Why does everyone pick on Ray? I mean the guy has been through enough...

 

[bulletproof]

I'll just add to a quote I read in an earlier post which surmised " If you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel , maybe its time to get out of the tunnel". A better one I heard a while back goes "sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is that of an oncoming train".
In any event hailtothethief, as a fellow radiohead fan, carribean med. student and ex- bartender of six years, let me just say that I think its important that you have experienced a good deal of life, partying etc. before starting med school purely because of the time constraints medicine imposes on your life. Having said that I still manage to have time for a girlfriend, family, good friends, and occasional socializing while in med. school. The major question you need to ask yourself is would you be happy in ten years time saying saying..."yeah...I was going to go to med. school". Be clear that it is a tough career, as others have noted,,and alot of times you are powered by your own motivation as "everyone has to paddle their own canoe". I am only a lowly MS III but I can assure you I would not even consider anything else. ( God didn't grant me the requisite guitar skills )
😉 To the poster who doubts about certain professions making $400,000 +, I can only offer anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Two good family friends ( husband and wife ) are anesthesiologists in the chicago area making well over that ...been out of residency now for about 6 years and 4 years respectively. Although they only drive c-class mercedes...losers.

 

[VentdependenT]

Plus its a super prestigious field!

 

[Laryngospasm]

thanks ninerniner....thats all I needed to hear my friend. You just have influenced a big decision in my life! THANK YOU. good luck everyone, may the force be with you! I'll see you at the end of the road!

Let me tell you one thing..the number of women that you "date" is directly proportional to the number of women that you have access to. You will have a much better social life working with your friends, unless you prefer dating bitter middle age nurses who are proportionally challenged. The job with your friends, now thats the dream job.. give it a shot if you want. Sounds like fun..maybe it will fail..but you can always go back and start over if you invest your money wisely. There have been multiple month periods when I was single where I didnt go out ONCE! not because I didnt want to but I was just too tired, and If I wasnt and I actually had more than 20$ to waste on drinks then everyone around me was on call or married or on call the next day...well you get the point. Think hard about what kind of life you want. Medical school and residency is not something that can just be walked away from..unless your family has money, which it sounds like yours might.

 

[(nicedream)]

I don't understand the delusions people have about physicians' salaries. Even with facts and statistics staring them in the face, I'm constantly hearing people say "no way, I know this one dr...." Anecdotes < Facts
How would you even know someones income? Do you ask? Do they tell you without you asking? Do you assume based on their house/car/lifestyle? Do you see their tax statement? Unless it's the latter, it's BS.
Many physicians feel the need to fit the image - to drive the expensive car, get the expensive house, eat in the expensive restaurants. Many live beyond their means in order to attain this image. Their tax statement says their income is $180,000, and the people around them think they're making $500,000.
There are many many many physician income surveys out there, and in very few fields is even the highest earner making $400,000.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, definitely do the bar-opening thing with your friends. I'm jealous.

 

[Laryngospasm]

There are many many many physician income surveys out there, and in very few fields is even the highest earner making $400,000.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, definitely do the bar-opening thing with your friends. I'm jealous.

Go to gaswork.com and do a search..look at some of the texas jobs, then get back to me 🙂 Private practice specialists still make a lot of money, especially surgical subspecialties.

 

[bulletproof]

I don't understand the delusions people have about physicians' salaries. Even with facts and statistics staring them in the face, I'm constantly hearing people say "no way, I know this one dr...." Anecdotes < Facts
How would you even know someones income? Do you ask? Do they tell you without you asking? Do you assume based on their house/car/lifestyle? Do you see their tax statement? Unless it's the latter, it's BS.
Many physicians feel the need to fit the image - to drive the expensive car, get the expensive house, eat in the expensive restaurants. Many live beyond their means in order to attain this image. Their tax statement says their income is $180,000, and the people around them think they're making $500,000.
There are many many many physician income surveys out there, and in very few fields is even the highest earner making $400,000.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, definitely do the bar-opening thing with your friends. I'm jealous.

How I Know the couples income, is the guy is from my hometown....have known him all my life. I have shadowed this guy in his private practice before even starting medical school. His kids go to school with my brothers kids. We go out drinking together and he is my mentor, and advisor for applying to an anesthesia residency. He has no reason to lie to me. He is fast to point out the problems with anesthesia, and he does not try to "live the life" as you imply. Yes, they work 5/6 days a week, and work hard. I am not sure why you find this hard to believe. We live in a country where potentially you can make as much as you want as long as you are willing to work for it.

 

[NinerNiner999]

dude, are you serious?? now i'm gonna call you on this. show me evidence of those salary ranges, cause i can certainly can show you evidence to the contrary.

also, i don't like your materialistic attitude about medicine. 400K EASILY obtainable??? doing something wrong if you're not making that?? You should go into a field cause you love doing it.

I'll get to the materialistic thing in a minute...

1st off, all salary surveys posted both on the web and in publiations such as medical economics have a survey return rate of at or below 20%, giving them little to no merit as a resource of reliable comparison. 2nd, while currently looking at job offers within my own field and knowing my field is middle to low salary range compared to the specialized fields I mentioned previously I can asssure you I will have no problem starting at $200-$250 upon completion of my residency, still below the other fields I mentioned.

Materialistic? Hardly. I chose my field to help everyone regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay. As long as we are throwing insults on this board, perhaps I will entertain the thought that you are ignorant about what I am posting, and that you should broaden your knowledge base to include factors outside the world of medicine in your career decisions. I stand by every comment I make and I think the biggest enemy to physicians and their financial security is the undereducated physician who lets themself be taken advantage of financially. So again, please explain to me how I am materialistic, especially when I'm discussing salary ranges outside of the field I love?

 

[backontop]

you are delusional.

 

[NinerNiner999]

you are delusional.

And you, my friend, are simply not educated in this arena:

About MGMA
The Medical Group Management Association (MGMA), founded in 1926, is the nation’s principal voice for medical group practice. MGMA’s 19,500 members manage and lead more than 11,500 organizations in which more than 240,000 physicians practice. MGMA’s core purpose is to improve the effectiveness of medical group practices and the knowledge and skills of the individuals who manage and lead them. MGMA headquarters are in Englewood, Colo.

Title of Article: Specialty group practice physicians’ compensation stagnates:
Starting physicians in some specialties see salaries drop in first three years

Basis: The MGMA report, the largest of its kind, outlines compensation and production indicators for more than 41,682 providers in 105 physician specialties and 30 nonphysician specialties in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

The FACTS: ftp://ftp.mgma.com/fod/BlastEmail/PS04TableA_EJ_1.pdf

 

[CoffeeFreak]

I think HAILTOTHECHEIF stopped reading after the first response to his post...dudes...i actually feel better about my application to med school with all this bickering going on regarding compensation. It shows that there are indeed humans that occupy the space behind that giant walnut doors at the med school admissions office. I don't know what my exact motivations behind becoming an MD. A few reasons are that I feel like I have something to prove. I am beyond the point of money. I've "made" almost a mil, after taxes before 30. Life can rapidly become boring without stresses.