Tonsiliths in animals?

[sofficat]

Has anyone heard of tonsiliths occurring in animals? It seems that with their tonsils being deep and wide and with the wide variety of crap animals eat that they would have problems with them. Tonsiliths are 'stones' that occur within the crypts of you tonsils. The stones are formed from WBC that attack the wide variety of bacteria that hide out in the tonsils. They form a hardish nude colored globule that people classify as a stone.
So.... any thoughts?

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[AuburnPreVet]

Off topic: Oh dear ... please tell me this isn't going to be on our GI exam Monday... lol... this material blows... in a very bad way.

 

[sofficat]

wait... malabsorptive or hypersecretory blow out?

 

[168135]

I get those... I just recently figured out what is was and I was happy to find out that it is normal in humans

I hate those things... an animal will just probably swallow it again.

 

[sofficat]

If it can cause sore throats and inflammation in humans (if they get bad enough) then can't it be a cause of upper respiratory distress in animals? or... something like that... how can you even tell if an animal has a sore throat? since i'm experiencing stream-of-thought right now... do animals get headaches? how can you tell? haha! ok... I'm done now.

 

[sofficat]

bump....

 

[VAgirl]

do animals get headaches? how can you tell? haha! ok... I'm done now.

Well, when they start knocking back lots of ibuprofen, I'd guess something hurts.

(On a side note, can animals process ibuprofen? I know acetaminophen is a no-no for cats, maybe dogs too? Hmm...I'm sure all of this delightful knowledge and much much more is just waiting in vet school pharm class...)

 

[alliecat44]

Ibuprofen is definitely way toxic to both cats AND dogs. Doesn't stop some MD's from trying to give it to their pets, though.

Not sure about tonsiliths, but horses can get chondroids in the guttural pouch...they sound pretty similar to tonisliths, though of course the guttural pouch is completely different than a tonsil.

If an animal has a sore throat, likely they are slower to eat. We can never really know without asking (of course ) but difficulty swallowing/hesitating to swallow could possibly be a sign...however, there are SO MANY things that can cause actual difficulty (not just pain) swallowing that I think it would be hard to tell the difference. I don't see why they wouldn't have a sore throat.

Do animals get headaches? After years in neuro, I'd say likely so with elevated ICP (intracranial pressure). Certainly, people with elevated ICP report headaches--and if you've ever seen a dog with high ICP, it looks like there should be a caption underneath that says, "ouch...". In addition to the mental dullness and associated signs from their underlying disease!

Don't know if any of that helps...

 

[VAgirl]

and if you've ever seen a dog with high ICP, it looks like there should be a caption underneath that says, "ouch..."

Aww. Sad. (Although, admittedly the picture in my head is more along the lines of a lol cats/icanhascheezburger picture...but I know that's just because I'm imagining it and it's late and I'm sleepy.)

 

[projekt]

On a side note, can animals process ibuprofen?

Metabolically, most animals process these drugs just fine. At least, they don't create any acute poisons, like Tylenol does.

The problem with over-the-counter NSAIDs like Ibuprofen and Aspirin is that they seriously affect the stomach lining. Humans aren't really able to tolerate chronic administration of these drugs well either, and about half of all ulcers are caused by overuse of NSAIDs. This is why Vioxx, Celebrex, Bextra, etc. were invented. (Too bad Vioxx and Bextra appear to be bad for the heart. I suppose it's just a matter of time before something is wrong with Celebrex.)

For animals, there's Metacam, Rimadyl, Deramaxx, etc.

 

[projekt]

For reference, Tylenol tablets are 325mg, Extra-strength are 500mg. You also have to watch out for food/drug and drug/drug interactions involving the Cytochrome P-450 system. (For example, grapefruit.)

From the Merck Veterinary Manual: (http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/214009.htm)

Cats are more sensitive to acetaminophen toxicosis because they are deficient in glucuronyl transferase and therefore have limited capacity to glucuronidate this drug. In cats, acetaminophen is primarily metabolized via sulfation; when this pathway is saturated, toxic metabolites are produced. In dogs, signs of acute toxicity are usually not observed unless the dosage of acetaminophen exceeds 100 mg/kg. Clinical signs of methemoglobinemia have been reported in 3 out of 4 dogs at 200 mg/kg. Toxicity can be seen at lower dosages with repeated exposures. In cats, toxicity can occur with 10-40 mg/kg.

Methemoglobinemia and hepatotoxicity characterize acetaminophen toxicosis. Renal injury is also possible. Cats primarily develop methemoglobinemia within a few hours, followed by Heinz body formation. Methemoglobinemia makes mucous membranes brown or muddy in color, and is usually accompanied by tachycardia, hyperpnea, weakness, and lethargy. Other clinical signs of acetaminophen toxicity include depression, weakness, hyperventilation, icterus, vomiting, hypothermia, facial or paw edema, cyanosis, dyspnea, hepatic necrosis, and death. Liver necrosis is more common in dogs than in cats. Liver damage in dogs is usually seen 24-36 hr after ingestion. Centrilobular necrosis is the most common form of hepatic necrosis seen with acetaminophen toxicity.

 

[alliecat44]

Metabolically, most animals process these drugs just fine. At least, they don't create any acute poisons, like Tylenol does.

The problem with over-the-counter NSAIDs like Ibuprofen and Aspirin is that they seriously affect the stomach lining. Humans aren't really able to tolerate chronic administration of these drugs well either, and about half of all ulcers are caused by overuse of NSAIDs. This is why Vioxx, Celebrex, Bextra, etc. were invented. (Too bad Vioxx and Bextra appear to be bad for the heart. I suppose it's just a matter of time before something is wrong with Celebrex.)

For animals, there's Metacam, Rimadyl, Deramaxx, etc.

Aspirin can be used in small doses in dogs, less frequently in cats (and you have to be VERY careful about the dosing in cats). Without getting into too much detail, NSAIDS block the activity of enzymes known as COX-1 and COX-2, enzymes which are involved in inflammation but also perform normal functions in the body (such as provide GI protection). Different species have different ratios/activities of COX-1 and COX-2. Different NSAIDS have various selectivities for COX-1 and COX-2. Some inhibit both enzymes equally, while others are 100x+ more selective for COX-2, etc

You're right in that no metabolic toxin is produced, but high doses of NSAIDS including ibuprofen (more likely in a cat due to tablet and body size in addition to the enzyme difference listed by projekt) usually first lead to GI bleeding/ulceration, but then also to kidney failure as the drug is metabolized. A quick search on VIN found two toxicologist's guidelines for renal impairment to be 50mg/kg in a cat and 100mg/kg in a dog. However, much lower doses can cause severe GI bleeding, to the point of anemia/hypoxemia/perforation/sepsis/death if not treated appropriately.