Too desperate or smart move?

Started by doctor in da makin
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
D

doctor in da makin

Full Member
7+ Year Member
If anyone has been reading my posts recently, you'd know that I've been having quite some trouble getting LORs. After changing up my plan of attack, I only need 1 more science letter to meet the requirement.

I have gotten rejected or ignored from almost everyone, so I was down literally to my last straw.

I took this prof 2 years ago for an intro class and got less than a B, never spoke to the professor either. HOWEVER....I recently took him again for an upper level class and got an A, and spoke to him almost every day.

When I kindly asked for a letter, he emailed to ask if I took the intro class with him. My heart sank as I knew he was going to know my grade from that class. I was hoping he wouldn't care too much about what I did back then.

I told him I did take it.

The next day he told me that he couldn't write me a letter because of that intro class. I was heartbroken.

I responded in a thoughtful, honest email saying that I have improved since I took his intro class and what really matters is who I am now, especially for medical school admissions. I just wanted him to reconsider his stance (but I didn't write that explicitly, only through implication)

(If anyone cares enough to see what I wrote exactly, PM me)

Was this a good idea? What do you think his response will be?
 
I think it's ridiculous that he's giving you trouble for receiving a "B", especially after you took a more difficult class and scored an "A". However even if he changes his mind I would be careful and make sure he has written a positive letter. I have heard stories from adcoms and advisers of people with negative letters. e.g. "this student can't take no for an answer and expects everything to go his/her way". Be kind, courteous, and reasonable. If he says no again let it go and find someone else.
 
You're My Boy Blue said:
I think it's ridiculous that he's giving you trouble for receiving a "B", especially after you took a more difficult class and scored an "A". However even if he changes his mind I would be careful and make sure he has written a positive letter. I have heard stories from adcoms and advisers of people with negative letters. e.g. "this student can't take no for an answer and expects everything to go his/her way". Be kind, courteous, and reasonable. If he says no again let it go and find someone else.
Click to expand...

So it was a smart move? He told me he only will write positive letters. And I got less than a B...
 
doctor in da makin said:
So it was a smart move? He told me he only will write positive letters. And I got less than a B...
Click to expand...

While you have good intentions, I wouldn't pursue it any further. If he "only writes positive letters", then he is kindly telling you that he could not write you a positive letter. Drop it and move on. If you keep asking, he's probably still not going to write you a letter, but on the rare chance he did, it would say that you performed well in the recent class, but poorly in a previous class. Personally, I wouldn't want any letter sent to adcoms that referenced my poor performance, no matter how long ago it was.
 
FutureDrB said:
While you have good intentions, I wouldn't pursue it any further. If he "only writes positive letters", then he is kindly telling you that he could not write you a positive letter. Drop it and move on. If you keep asking, he's probably still not going to write you a letter, but on the rare chance he did, it would say that you performed well in the recent class, but poorly in a previous class. Personally, I wouldn't want any letter sent to adcoms that referenced my poor performance, no matter how long ago it was.
Click to expand...

I won't do anything else if he doesn't respond to that email I sent (its been 1 day so far)
He said that C+ grade couldn't be ignored if he wrote the letter, but does he really have to "ignore it"?
He could easily write about how I improved, right?
 
You're My Boy Blue said:
Oh didn't see that. There are plenty of professors that don't write letters for C students, no matter how much they visited/came in for help

Edit: Not saying that you're a C student in general but as far as this professor is concerned you are..
Click to expand...
It just bothered me that had I taken that exact same class 2 years ago but with another professor, I wouldn't be in this situation right now.
 
doctor in da makin said:
I won't do anything else if he doesn't respond to that email I sent (its been 1 day so far)
He said that C+ grade couldn't be ignored if he wrote the letter, but does he really have to "ignore it"?
He could easily write about how I improved, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, he could write about how you improved. Or, like YourMyBoyBlue said, he could go off on some tangent. I'd just be too leery about it.
 
doctor in da makin said:
If anyone has been reading my posts recently, you'd know that I've been having quite some trouble getting LORs. After changing up my plan of attack, I only need 1 more science letter to meet the requirement.

I have gotten rejected or ignored from almost everyone, so I was down literally to my last straw.

I took this prof 2 years ago for an intro class and got less than a B, never spoke to the professor either. HOWEVER....I recently took him again for an upper level class and got an A, and spoke to him almost every day.

When I kindly asked for a letter, he emailed to ask if I took the intro class with him. My heart sank as I knew he was going to know my grade from that class. I was hoping he wouldn't care too much about what I did back then.

I told him I did take it.

The next day he told me that he couldn't write me a letter because of that intro class. I was heartbroken.

I responded in a thoughtful, honest email saying that I have improved since I took his intro class and what really matters is who I am now, especially for medical school admissions. I just wanted him to reconsider his stance (but I didn't write that explicitly, only through implication)

(If anyone cares enough to see what I wrote exactly, PM me)

Was this a good idea? What do you think his response will be?
Click to expand...
this professor cant be serious....
 
asdf123g said:
this professor cant be serious....
Click to expand...

lol, I had a professor deny writing me a LOR even though I got an A in his class that is both a prereq and the main weed out class at my school. His reason? He only writes letters for people who take his upper level bio class(that isnt a prereq). Well I dont actually think it was his policy but the department as a whole. It seems some schools just have so many decent students they need to eliminate some of them somehow.
 
You're My Boy Blue said:
This should be illegal...
Click to expand...

Actually, I wouldn't mind this route if I was getting a quality LOR.
Shut_up_and_take_my_money.png
 
Ask if the doctor/professor would be willing to write you a STRONG LOR. A poor or average one does no good.
 
oOKawaiiOo said:
Well, with reasonable and limited interactions with the physician, an avg LOR is better than no LOR.
Click to expand...

If the physician can't give you assurance that it will be strong...you won't know whether or not it will be weak or average. Absolutely not worth the risk.
 
oOKawaiiOo said:
Well, with reasonable and limited interactions with the physician, an avg LOR is better than no LOR.
Click to expand...
I don't know about that. If it's a second letter to fulfill a requirement for 2-3 professor LORs, I wouldn't be quite as worried, but for just about any school it's important to have at least one strong LOR from a science professor.

OP, I would stop asking for this letter now. He's already told you in no uncertain terms that you're not getting a letter from him. If he does relent, it will almost definitely not be a positive one, and may even do more harm than good. If anyone I approached showed even the slightest hesitation or anything less than a smile and an enthusiastic response to writing me a letter, I wouldn't want one from that person. I've heard stories about ambivalent and downright negative LORs ruining an otherwise decent application.
 
njtrimed said:
I don't know about that. If it's a second letter to fulfill a requirement for 2-3 professor LORs, I wouldn't be quite as worried, but for just about any school it's important to have at least one strong LOR from a science professor.

OP, I would stop asking for this letter now. He's already told you in no uncertain terms that you're not getting a letter from him. If he does relent, it will almost definitely not be a positive one, and may even do more harm than good. If anyone I approached showed even the slightest hesitation or anything less than a smile and an enthusiastic response to writing me a letter, I wouldn't want one from that person. I've heard stories about ambivalent and downright negative LORs ruining an otherwise decent application.
Click to expand...

I know, that email was my last ditch effort to try and convince him. Its not going to be easy, but I'll have to find someone else now.

I already have 1 science letter, but many schools require two, so I may be in a debacle right now
 
I agree with you that the professor is probably being to strict with you, but at the end of the day, it's his decision. In the medical field, you're going to run into similar situations that you don't agree with a decision being made, especially if it's a stupid, idiotic decision, but you'll still have to go along with it because it's not your stupid, idiotic decision to make.

If the professor doesn't respond after a couple of days or still doesn't want to write you a letter, send an email thanking him for his time and consideration and maybe even helping you in your last class together. And if you were at all pushy in your previous letter, I would maybe think about apologizing.

Sometimes it's how we handle rejection and bad things that speaks more about us.
 
At least your professor writes recommendations. I got the highest grade in my physics class (A) and still couldn't get a recommendation from him.
 
Yellow-Orange said:
I agree with you that the professor is probably being to strict with you, but at the end of the day, it's his decision. In the medical field, you're going to run into similar situations that you don't agree with a decision being made, especially if it's a stupid, idiotic decision, but you'll still have to go along with it because it's not your stupid, idiotic decision to make.

If the professor doesn't respond after a couple of days or still doesn't want to write you a letter, send an email thanking him for his time and consideration and maybe even helping you in your last class together. And if you were at all pushy in your previous letter, I would maybe think about apologizing.

Sometimes it's how we handle rejection and bad things that speaks more about us.
Click to expand...

I appreciate this answer. I touched on this already, but I would not have been feeling as down as I am now if I had other options available, but I really don't at this point...

I don't think I was being pushy at all so an apology is probably not needed. I likely won't ever have contact with him ever again, but if I ever saw him again I would definitely stop and greet him. No hard feelings.

I've been getting rejected alot lately tbh, so I'll have to use this as a character building experience.
 
doctor in da makin said:
I appreciate this answer. I touched on this already, but I would not have been feeling as down as I am now if I had other options available, but I really don't at this point...

I don't think I was being pushy at all so an apology is probably not needed. I likely won't ever have contact with him ever again, but if I ever saw him again I would definitely stop and greet him. No hard feelings.

I've been getting rejected alot lately tbh, so I'll have to use this as a character building experience.
Click to expand...

Does your school not have a health committee?
 
You're My Boy Blue said:
My school's committee required 1 physician letter, 2 sci prof letters, 1 non-sci prof letter, and 1 misc (usually research) letter. More than most medical schools ask for hah
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I believe it is well worth it. I feel that a committee letter has more weight than a regular LOR from a professor, which is why most schools only require just a committee letter vs 2-3 letters from your professors.

My school also required 5 LOR, an autobiography, resume, and an interview with them before they can write you a letter.
 
mathnerd88 said:
Does your school not have a health committee?
Click to expand...
My school's prehealth committee requires a minimum of three letters, two from science professors, and encourages as many as possible to help differentiate you from other students when they write your committee letter. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that schools expect the committee letter to summarize what your professors had to say about you, along with their own assessment based upon comparing you to other premeds from your school.
 
njtrimed said:
My school's prehealth committee requires a minimum of three letters, two from science professors, and encourages as many as possible to help differentiate you from other students when they write your committee letter. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that schools expect the committee letter to summarize what your professors had to say about you, along with their own assessment based upon comparing you to other premeds from your school.
Click to expand...

Maybe we went to the same school! Was it Rutgers by any chance?
 
Don't use this guy's letter. He's clearly a clown that doesn't appreciate improvement and getting to know people. Even if he wrote you one, it could be bad.
 
Yellow-Orange said:
I agree with you that the professor is probably being to strict with you, but at the end of the day, it's his decision. In the medical field, you're going to run into similar situations that you don't agree with a decision being made, especially if it's a stupid, idiotic decision, but you'll still have to go along with it because it's not your stupid, idiotic decision to make.

If the professor doesn't respond after a couple of days or still doesn't want to write you a letter, send an email thanking him for his time and consideration and maybe even helping you in your last class together. And if you were at all pushy in your previous letter, I would maybe think about apologizing.

Sometimes it's how we handle rejection and bad things that speaks more about us.
Click to expand...
You're My Boy Blue said:
I feel you. Wait until you hear back from the professor to start freaking out:bang:
Click to expand...
AlbinoHawk DO said:
Don't use this guy's letter. He's clearly a clown that doesn't appreciate improvement and getting to know people. Even if he wrote you one, it could be bad.
Click to expand...

Wow, what a turn of events!

After days of no response, he told me that he wants to help me, but no promises. He wanted to see my ECs and transcript before making his final decision.
The only problem is- I'm lacking in my ECs and my GPA isn't that great either. Thats why my relationship with the professor and my grade specifically in their class are what will help me get letters.
I wouldn't be shocked if he said no again, but its amazing how that email was able to soften his previous "NO" stance.

AlbinoHawk, he told me that he only will write letters that will be supportive so either he really changed his mind about me OR he just wants to bash me in the letter (which I dont think will happen).
 
Last edited:
doctor in da makin said:
Wow, what a turn of events!

After days of no response, he told me that he wants to help me, but no promises. He wanted to see my ECs and transcript before making his final decision.
The only problem is- I'm lacking in my ECs and my GPA isn't that great either. Thats why my relationship with the professor and my grade specifically in their class are what will help me get letters.
I wouldn't be shocked if he said no again, but its amazing how that email was able to soften his previous "NO" stance.

AlbinoHawk, he told me that he only will write letters that will be supportive so either he really changed his mind about me OR he just wants to bash me in the letter (which I dont think will happen).
Click to expand...

Listen, I would not use him for a letter writer. He's already got a bad impression on you, and it definitely will reflect in the way he writes about you, even if it is "positive." It may be just an average letter at best.

What you want are glowing recommendations. You'll need those because of your lowerish stats.
 
doctor in da makin said:
Wow, what a turn of events!

After days of no response, he told me that he wants to help me, but no promises. He wanted to see my ECs and transcript before making his final decision.
The only problem is- I'm lacking in my ECs and my GPA isn't that great either. Thats why my relationship with the professor and my grade specifically in their class are what will help me get letters.
I wouldn't be shocked if he said no again, but its amazing how that email was able to soften his previous "NO" stance.

AlbinoHawk, he told me that he only will write letters that will be supportive so either he really changed his mind about me OR he just wants to bash me in the letter (which I dont think will happen).
Click to expand...
Your call. I wouldn't touch it.
 
I'm with those two. I wouldn't want a letter from him. At best, it'll be weakly supportive. The best thing you can do is start beefing up your application with one really strong EC (it's not hard to find meaningful volunteer opportunities), and build a relationship with a different professor.
 
Not feeling the letter from him either.
A professor at my school only wrote letters of rec for students who aced both semesters of his A&P sequence class (A&P for upper level science majors). If you missed an A in one of them then you would have a chance to redeem yourself by getting an A in his virology course. What bull
 
mathnerd88 said:
Listen, I would not use him for a letter writer. He's already got a bad impression on you, and it definitely will reflect in the way he writes about you, even if it is "positive." It may be just an average letter at best.

What you want are glowing recommendations. You'll need those because of your lowerish stats.
Click to expand...
mathnerd88 said:
Listen, I would not use him for a letter writer. He's already got a bad impression on you, and it definitely will reflect in the way he writes about you, even if it is "positive." It may be just an average letter at best.

What you want are glowing recommendations. You'll need those because of your lowerish stats.
Click to expand...
AlbinoHawk DO said:
Your call. I wouldn't touch it.
Click to expand...
njtrimed said:
I'm with those two. I wouldn't want a letter from him. At best, it'll be weakly supportive. The best thing you can do is start beefing up your application with one really strong EC (it's not hard to find meaningful volunteer opportunities), and build a relationship with a different professor.
Click to expand...
darkeon said:
Not feeling the letter from him either.
A professor at my school only wrote letters of rec for students who aced both semesters of his A&P sequence class (A&P for upper level science majors). If you missed an A in one of them then you would have a chance to redeem yourself by getting an A in his virology course. What bull
Click to expand...

I think what I'll do is this: Use the letter if he accepts. That way I'll have fulfilled the LOR requirement for nearly all DO schools. If I can find someone else to write me a good LOR before I apply, I may use that one instead.
 
doctor in da makin said:
I think what I'll do is this: Use the letter if he accepts. That way I'll have fulfilled the LOR requirement for nearly all DO schools. If I can find someone else to write me a good LOR before I apply, I may use that one instead.
Click to expand...

How does that work? Are you uploading the letter to AACOMAS? You're not allowed to read them so there's no way to tell.

Once he uploads to AACOMAS, every school you apply to will read it.
 
mathnerd88 said:
How does that work? Are you uploading the letter to AACOMAS? You're not allowed to read them so there's no way to tell.

Once he uploads to AACOMAS, every school you apply to will read it.
Click to expand...

If he finds another writer who doesn't give him near as much flak as this one, then it would probably be safer to go with that writer.

Some writers let you see their letters. We just sign away our rights to DEMAND to see the letters (since they are part of our academic record). If a writer wants to show you the letter that's on them, no you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.