Too old to start MD/PhD program?

[hellohelpwithfuture]

Right after undergrad I decided to do my master's. It took some time, but I have decided to apply to the MD/PhD program but it's too late for me to apply this year because I have to study for the MCAT. So I will apply next year. But that means there will be another year after that before starting the program. So I start the program at 25 turning 26 that April. I feel like since the program is so long that I will be really old by the time I am done with all training.

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[Fencer]

There are at least 100 students (out of the 630 MD/PhD students) who are starting every year at that age. Being old for MD/PhD training is a mental attitude. See a prior post of mine regarding a junior resident who was 52 when I was chief resident at age 34. Regardless, there are 2 population changes that are impacting you: a) your professional life expectancy after the 13-17 years of training (8 MSTP, plus residency/fellowship/ postdoc) still allows you 30-40 years of work, and b) training is currently under the microscope with an impetus for the creation of research-track residencies in all of medicine, aiming to make training more efficient in lesser number of years.

 

[GalaxyKnot]

Hi hellohelpwithfuture! If an MD/PhD program fits your broader long term personal goals then I think that you can definitely be successful in the program regardless of age if you get into a program. I do not want to read into this too deeply but, it seems that your main hang up is your age. Anxiety about one's professional and personal future is a legitimate experience given that so much life can happen in a span of 8 years in the program! Several programs that I interviewed at this cycle made a point that each entering class's age is diverse. Even if you happen to be one of the older students in the entering class your age comes with more life experiences and maturity that gives the class a unique flavor.

 

[eteshoe]

I started at age 26. Hasn't been a negative in my case.

 

[gbwillner]

...That's not too old. What's the average, 22? a whopping 3 year difference? I think there is definitely "too old". Knowing what I know, I could never do the program at my age today (40). There are so many factors, and the most important ones revolve around having a family. "too old" is definitely subjective, but i think you start to get there around 32-35 (about 4 years shorter than "too old" for medical school).

 

[Lucca]

...That's not too old. What's the average, 22? a whopping 3 year difference? I think there is definitely "too old". Knowing what I know, I could never do the program at my age today (40). There are so many factors, and the most important ones revolve around having a family. "too old" is definitely subjective, but i think you start to get there around 32-35 (about 4 years shorter than "too old" for medical school).

Average is actually 24 these days (for medical school in general)!

https://www.aamc.org/download/321468/data/factstablea6.pdf

I plan on applying at 24 OP (thus, starting at 25). I dont feel like its too old.

 

[Natural_Obsessions]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/17/nyregion/ex-nypd-detective-neuroscience.html?_r=0

 

[Lucca]

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/17/nyregion/ex-nypd-detective-neuroscience.html?_r=0

This dude is awesome lol

 

[SippyLord]

I'm starting MD/PhD this August and I'm 28. I don't feel too old.

 

[Neuronix]

IMO, no matter what you do you're too old when you finish training. 35? 40? What's the difference, really. It's a life and a lifestyle choice.

 

[sooleiool]

We had a classmate start at 28. Age is relative at this point when training is so long. If it's worth it to you, do it. IMHO older students also tend to be more mature and level-headed. I understand why students decide to enter right after undergraduate, but differences in maturity level and attitude toward certain issues that may arise during the course of training become very apparent...

 

[deev04]

@Fencer or anyone else who might have insight into the PD perspective: Is there an age (or range) when PDs or adcoms begin to see your age as a negative or potential barrier? I know "how old is too old" is largely personal and about attitude and personal goals more than anything else. But given the number of years needed to become a successful physician-scientist, I imagine PDs might be more worried about older applicants becoming discouraged or shifting their priorities away from research.

Does a PD see a 28 (29, 30...) year old applicant, do the math– mid to late thirties MD/PhD, mid to late forties finished residency/fellowship, starting career– and get worried that the already high attrition from the physician-scientist track would be even higher?

 

[Neuronix]

My perspective is that you're crazy to do MD/PhD at any age. So age doesn't matter.

Talking to others, generally as long as you're under 30 I think people won't question it. Opinions will vary.

 

[wholeheartedly]

There was a paper I read that showed a pretty high attrition rate for older MD/PhDs out of the PhD portion of the degree. I think it was more than 70% for the >28 yr olds. Unfortunately my ipad got wiped so I no longer have a copy of the paper.

I'm 35 and would love to do it, but finishing 8 years MD/PhD, 3 years residency, 3 years fellowship (probably 4 for the extra research) would put me at 50ish starting out. That's a little hard to wrap my head around.

 

[Fencer]

Life doesn't stop because you start a MD/PhD career. The biggest decision you do as a clinician-scientist is who is your significant-other. If that person supports and understand your desire to pursue this career, you will get thru it whether you are 20, 28 or 36 when you start. However, family and other responsibilities begin often during your MD/PhD training. A quarter of my students have children, just as I did when I was training. Family responsibilities did shape where I went or not for residency/fellowship as well as the length of my residency training. I could have done a couple of years of post-residency post-doc research that I did not do because I needed to begin my faculty job ($).

Regarding Ad Coms, people start becoming uncomfortable at around age 30, but I can tell you, last year I accepted a very unique and committed 35 year-old who also got 14 other acceptances including multiple MSTPs Last night, I had dinner with a 40-year old graduate going into a 6 year residency at a top 5 research intensive program in the country. He is having a blast and has no regrets... Every story is different. Write your own.

 

[crashbandicub]

FWIW, I am 37 and I am applying to MD/PhD programs this cycle. I realize that if I am accepted, I will not be done (including residency/fellowship) until I am around 50 years old, and that is if I get it all done in a timely manner. I get that there is some concern about the attrition rate of older applicants but fortunately, my significant other is supportive and I don't have kids to worry about; in other words, this pursuit would be my main focus.

Personally, I would rather do something I really want to do even if it means doing it later than most people would. A few years is merely spit in the ocean. I got to have an awesome career in a totally different industry before this, so I don't have regrets about not doing this years ago. Given longer lifespans these days (health-willing), even getting done at 50 would allow me to have at least a 20 year career.

Starting the program at 26? I wouldn't sweat it... just my opinion.

 

[wholeheartedly]

FWIW, I am 37 and I am applying to MD/PhD programs this cycle. I realize that if I am accepted, I will not be done (including residency/fellowship) until I am around 50 years old, and that is if I get it all done in a timely manner. I get that there is some concern about the attrition rate of older applicants but fortunately, my significant other is supportive and I don't have kids to worry about; in other words, this pursuit would be my main focus.

Personally, I would rather do something I really want to do even if it means doing it later than most people would. A few years is merely spit in the ocean. I got to have an awesome career in a totally different industry before this, so I don't have regrets about not doing this years ago. Given longer lifespans these days (health-willing), even getting done at 50 would allow me to have at least a 20 year career.

Starting the program at 26? I wouldn't sweat it... just my opinion.

Keep us posted please.

Also we had a guy at my former shop that had continuous NIH funding for like 50 years or more. He was in his 80's and still going strong.

 

[crashbandicub]

Keep us posted please.

Also we had a guy at my former shop that had continuous NIH funding for like 50 years or more. He was in his 80's and still going strong.

Will do!