Top 3 ranks

[pinecat]

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How would you approach your top 3 programs and let them know how highly you were ranking them without telling them they are your #1 choice? If you tell each one that you are ranking them highly, will they assume you are ranking them #1?

Thanks!

 

[Dral]

I think they will assume ranking highly means NOT ranking them number one.

You can 'play the game' and tell all three you are ranking them number one. I would not do that personally.

 

[pinecat]

So, some things are better left unsaid then?

 

[pinecat]

I'm not really good at "playing the game" so I will put my rank order list together and hope for the best. Thanks, Dral, for your input. It keeps a lot of us grounded...

 

[Dral]

If you have a number one (especially if the program isn't finished interviewing yet), I think it is good to tell them you are ranking them number one. If you know an attending who knows someone at the program, asking them to advocate for you wouldn't be a bad idea either.

 

[exeunt]

If you have a number one (especially if the program isn't finished interviewing yet), I think it is good to tell them you are ranking them number one. If you know an attending who knows someone at the program, asking them to advocate for you wouldn't be a bad idea either.

is this a still a good idea if the attending is at your home institution? if you ask them to make a call for you somewhere else, wouldn't that hurt your chances at your home institution?

 

[doc MD]

is this a still a good idea if the attending is at your home institution? if you ask them to make a call for you somewhere else, wouldn't that hurt your chances at your home institution?

depends on how close you are to them. have the bus only partially run them over.

 

[Dral]

is this a still a good idea if the attending is at your home institution? if you ask them to make a call for you somewhere else, wouldn't that hurt your chances at your home institution?

It could. You have to weigh your own desires and intentions.

If I was doing it all over again (thank GOD, I am not), I might say something like:

"Hi Dr. Dermerson, I really love the program here at university of scabaliabama and wanted you to know I'd really love to train here if given the opportunity. However, in trying to maximize my chances at matching, I was wondering if you could help me out. I interviewed at university of skincinnati and I remember you saying that you know Dr. Whitlow who is on faculty there. I was wondering if you would feel comfortable contacting them on my behalf. Thank you. Signed, stressed out fourth year. "

 

[asmallchild]

How would you approach your top 3 programs and let them know how highly you were ranking them without telling them they are your #1 choice? If you tell each one that you are ranking them highly, will they assume you are ranking them #1?

Thanks!

Agree with the above, just tell your #1 program you are ranking them #1. "Ranking someone highly" is just a euphemism for "you are not my #1"

 

[pinecat]

It is so difficult to choose between my final two, but I really believe you wind up where you're supposed to be. Thanks everyone.

 

[dermathalon]

Tell #1 that you are ranking them #1 if you are sure. Tell them as early as you know and don't wait.

Don't play games because it's a small world in dermatology.

If you know your home attending well, they will be willing to fight for you elsewhere and keep it to themselves when discussions about you come up at the home program. That's what really supportive attendings SHOULD do if they even have an iota of a memory of what is means to apply into dermatology. If you don't know them well, then it's a judgement call and don't think any of us can give you a magic answer for that.

They (admissions committees) will sometimes make the decision on seemingly small issues. What I'm saying is that something like a phone call or a personal email from a trusted fellow friend/colleague can make the difference in supporting your application.

If your head can't make the decision (if you are an intellectual), then go with your gut. If your gut can't make the decision, roll dice.

 

[Anonymous99]

Can I just say nothing? I think I could be fairly equally happy at any of the programs in my Top 3, but I also don't want my silence to hurt my rank. I'd just rather not deal with all these games if it's not necessary.

 

[pinecat]

👍👍👍

 

[happyapple]

I am ranking my home program #2. I haven't let them know yet that I will "ranking them highly," because I am worried they will be offended or maybe I just feel guilty about listing another program #1....but it is awkward because I run into faculty in the department and have been silent so far, maybe that is worse?

 

[DermViser]

I am ranking my home program #2. I haven't let them know yet that I will "ranking them highly," because I am worried they will be offended or maybe I just feel guilty about listing another program #1....but it is awkward because I run into faculty in the department and have been silent so far, maybe that is worse?

You're reading way too much into this. Both applicants and residencies are playing the game and are looking out for themselves only. For all you know they may not have ranked you high enough to match bc they interviewed stellar applicants than you (hard to imagine, I know.)

 

[pinecat]

👍

 

[jmw38]

Tell your number 1 they're your number 1, I would just do it personally. I don't personally think it makes that much a difference when someone calls but that's just IMHO. I would do it early as poss too, I know at my institution we've already ranked, doesn't mean things can't change but still probably more helpful if it's before than after

 

[happyapple]

I guess my post must have come out wrong..I will be thanking my lucky stars if I match in derm anywhere at all, and am definitely not counting on my home program ranking me highly (esp when there are several amazing applicants applying from my med school class). I just was trying to decide which option would hurt me the least...sending a "ranking highly" email or no email at all, especially when the residents have been asking if I have chosen a number one program yet and wanting to know how my ranking is going. They are likely just making conversation but I guess I was just trying to be careful.

 

[DermViser]

I guess my post must have come out wrong..I will be thanking my lucky stars if I match in derm anywhere at all, and am definitely not counting on my home program ranking me highly (esp when there are several amazing applicants applying from my med school class). I just was trying to decide which option would hurt me the least...sending a "ranking highly" email or no email at all, especially when the residents have been asking if I have chosen a number one program yet and wanting to know how my ranking is going. They are likely just making conversation but I guess I was just trying to be careful.

Bottom Line: Do not call any dermatology residency program and tell them you will be "ranking them highly" = a.k.a. "I like your program, but I don't love your program." It's either call them to tell them that they're your #1 or don't call them at all. This isn't Internal Medicine where programs have to interview hundreds of applicants to fill their spots bc they may have to go lower down their list.

This doesn't mean you don't send a personalized thank you note to all your interviewers telling them how much you really enjoyed interviewing with faculty at their program. This is just plain good manners and shows your humbleness in being thankful to receive an interview in Dermatology in the first place.

Academic faculty in Dermatology when they recruit applicants, know they are recruiting their future colleagues many of whom they will see again and again at AAD, SID, etc. More than anything they take pride in matching at the top of their list.

Imagine your positions reversed. If you take the time out of your daily clinic schedule to interview and get to know applicants, who will likely become your colleagues, how would you feel if a medical student contacted you just to tell you they'll "rank you highly"? It wouldn't give you good feelings at all. Just like in matters of the heart, no one likes to be someone's #2 or lower choice to the prom.

 

[jmw38]

agree. bottom line, no email/call is better than a "ranking you 'highly'" email/call. always do all the social niceties - personalized thank you notes - the more personalized the better - etc - but when it comes to that time where you send your number one that email/call - just don't send it everywhere else.

 

[lars0213]

Well that is just ridiculous. I honestly believe that telling your #1 or #2 program that they are ranked "very highly" is not a dealbreaker, and it's definitely okay if you're not 100% sure that you won't change your mind later. In reality, these PDs can't really read anything into that statement, unless they are avid SDN users (which they aren't) and strictly follow this "code," which is not universally acknowledged or known as some of you may think. I guess the alternative is saying nothing, which is fine too. But personally, I would feel safer just letting them know you are very interested -- with or without saying how highly they are ranked -- than saying nothing at all. Saying "highly" or "very highly" may not bump your rank up, but what kind of PD would read that much into it and actually be offended? Do you really want to go to a program like that? How do they know you know the code? They don't! Some people don't even tell their number one programs as much. This is just silly.

 

[asmallchild]

Well that is just ridiculous. I honestly believe that telling your #1 or #2 program that they are ranked "very highly" is not a dealbreaker, and it's definitely okay if you're not 100% sure that you won't change your mind later. In reality, these PDs can't really read anything into that statement, unless they are avid SDN users (which they aren't) and strictly follow this "code," which is not universally acknowledged or known as some of you may think. I guess the alternative is saying nothing, which is fine too. But personally, I would feel safer just letting them know you are very interested -- with or without saying how highly they are ranked -- than saying nothing at all. Saying "highly" or "very highly" may not bump your rank up, but what kind of PD would read that much into it and actually be offended? Do you really want to go to a program like that? How do they know you know the code? They don't! Some people don't even tell their number one programs as much. This is just silly.

You would not believe how petty some people are in dermatology. If you aren't telling a program they are your #1, it is probably better to do nothing. A lot of this is speculation as most rank lists are compiled on the day of the interview. That being said, telling someone they are "ranked highly" usually just leads to an indifferent shrug or hurt feelings, so why bother?

 

[derm8888]

Do programs still call applicants? Had no love calls/ emails myself...but have been hearing that less programs are making callls these days?

 

[Medicine123abc]

Yes, absolutely programs call their most desired applicants. I cannot comment on whether there has been a shift in calling or not calling in recent years. I know firsthand and from co-applicants of at least 8 out of the top 25 NIH funded Dermatology programs this year that call and profess interest towards certain applicants. My opinion is that many programs share a lot of overlap at the top of their rank order list for the exceptional candidates who garnered 12+ interviews. Certainly, you see the same faces on the trail. Not getting a call (should a program call) does suggest you are not as highly ranked as some candidates, but it does not mean one does not have a solid chance at matching there.

 

[DermViser]

Well that is just ridiculous. I honestly believe that telling your #1 or #2 program that they are ranked "very highly" is not a dealbreaker, and it's definitely okay if you're not 100% sure that you won't change your mind later. In reality, these PDs can't really read anything into that statement, unless they are avid SDN users (which they aren't) and strictly follow this "code," which is not universally acknowledged or known as some of you may think. I guess the alternative is saying nothing, which is fine too. But personally, I would feel safer just letting them know you are very interested -- with or without saying how highly they are ranked -- than saying nothing at all. Saying "highly" or "very highly" may not bump your rank up, but what kind of PD would read that much into it and actually be offended? Do you really want to go to a program like that? How do they know you know the code? They don't! Some people don't even tell their number one programs as much. This is just silly.

#1 - When the Dermboard existed, many PDs or their lackeys, would avidly check it re: what people were saying about their program and their faculty. So they very much do care. SDN doesn't have as much activity in that regard.

#2 - Dermatology is a specialty which tends to aggregate faculty many of whom can be very pretentious and elitist (even from many who got in, when derm wasn't competitive) and perseverate on board scores, AOA, and the prestige of their applicants. They can afford to be petty and childlike and not able to take criticism, bc Dermatology is a seller's market and will be for a very long time to come. Dermatology PDs want their program to be loved by their applicants, and take pride on being able to capture the residents they want.

 

[dermathalon]

1) Absolutely PDs would get offended if someone told them they are "ranked highly." It will drop you. We all know people getting into derm are savvy and to think otherwise is just naive. Is it stupid to be occurring? YES! But is this how things work? A BIGGER YES!

2) The final rank list are typically not fully completed on the day of the interview unless it's the last interview date since a final rank list across all interview dates needs to be done at the end. Some programs may differ and have different protocols though. A lot of programs jostle for position to proclaim how high they stayed on their rank lists. That derm ego is precious. You can think it's BS, and I agree, but it's the real world.

3) Program absolutely call applicants and read the way you respond. I also know this first hand as well.

Bottom line: tell your #1 that they are #1 and leave it at that.