MegaSpectacular

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Hello, I am applying soon. What are the top handful of DO schools out there? (say top 5-7), any links or lists?

Thx
 

MegaSpectacular

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Use the search function.
I searched, just everyone always says there is no ranking and "the one you get into".

Not all DO schools are the same. Some have great connections to get better residencies and matching while others have horrible 3rd and 4th year rotations. Just wanted to make sure I didn't apply to one of the horrible ones (There are very poor DO schools, seems like people don't pay attention to the residency match data), maybe I just have to find that data again...
 

PunkmedGirl

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I searched, just everyone always says there is no ranking and "the one you get into".

Not all DO schools are the same. Some have great connections to get better residencies and matching while others have horrible 3rd and 4th year rotations. Just wanted to make sure I didn't apply to one of the horrible ones (There are very poor DO schools, seems like people don't pay attention to the residency match data), maybe I just have to find that data again...
Residency match data has nothing to do with how poor a school is. Those match lists are based off of personal performance and career goals set by the individual student NOT because the school is horrible.
 

Bacchus

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PCOM, NYCOM, CCOM, DMU, KCOM, TCOM (no order...except for that first one ;))
 

MegaSpectacular

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Residency match data has nothing to do with how poor a school is. Those match lists are based off of personal performance and career goals set by the individual student NOT because the school is horrible.
Some of the newer schools have no connections with rotations, I've read up on this quite a bit. I just forgot which ones they were.
PCOM, NYCOM, CCOM, DMU, KCOM, TCOM (no order...except for that first one )
Thanks Bacchus!
 

chinocochino

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I would say that the best DO schools are the ones with the highest MCAT and GPA averages. Also, the selectivity of the specialties that their students match into for the residency match should matter. (dermatology, plastic surgery, radiology) Its hard to obtain, but perhaps you could find the average COMLEX scores of their students. The cheapest schools may be "best" as well.

CCOM, DMUCOM, MSUCOM, OUCOM, TCOM are schools with MCAT/GPA averages among the highest...

Hello, I am applying soon. What are the top handful of DO schools out there? (say top 5-7), any links or lists?

Thx
 

JaggerPlate

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I would say that the best DO schools are the ones with the highest MCAT and GPA averages. Also, the selectivity of the specialties that their students match into for the residency match should matter. (dermatology, plastic surgery, radiology) Its hard to obtain, but perhaps you could find the average COMLEX scores of their students. The cheapest schools may be "best" as well.

CCOM, DMUCOM, MSUCOM, OUCOM, TCOM are schools with MCAT/GPA averages among the highest...
Disagree with both those statements. Of course schools with high GPA/MCAT attract good students, but I've found certain instances where that has to do with geographical locale, and high MCAT/GPA doesn't equate to some of the very important aspects of DO schools - such as 3/4 year rotations. This is something you really need to pay attention to in the DO world. Having said that ... all the schools you listed are top-notch. On the 'specialties' comment ... it doesn't show much besides what that class was interested in. If I showed a pre-med one match list that was full of derm and PRS and another that was all IM ... well the pre-med would probably assume the first school was better. However, if every student on that list got their 3rd choice for derm/prs and every student on the other list got their first choice, big name, IM program ... well, technically one is 'better' than the other. Again, bad indicator and too subjunctive to use as a gauge.
 

JaggerPlate

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I searched, just everyone always says there is no ranking and "the one you get into".

Not all DO schools are the same. Some have great connections to get better residencies and matching while others have horrible 3rd and 4th year rotations. Just wanted to make sure I didn't apply to one of the horrible ones (There are very poor DO schools, seems like people don't pay attention to the residency match data), maybe I just have to find that data again...
(please no one yell at me for not multi-quoting ... I just keep finding stuff as I go back up to the top of the page)

You bring up a good point. 3/4 year rotations are, in my opinion, the most important thing to look for in a DO school. Having said that ... I've personally found that the older schools have the most established rotation sites. However, this does NOT mean that newer schools don't have good rotations, but it does mean that it is something to look for while researching schools. As far as a general list ... I always seem to leave good ones out and get questioned, so I won't bother.
 

PunkmedGirl

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Some of the newer schools have no connections with rotations, I've read up on this quite a bit. I just forgot which ones they were.

Thanks Bacchus!

All DO schools are required to have written agreements for clinical sites in order to maintain their provisional accreditation per COCA. Reading on SDN for information is not always accurate.
http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/108/3/121
 

MegaSpectacular

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All DO schools are required to have written agreements for clinical sites in order to maintain their provisional accreditation per COCA. Reading on SDN for information is not always accurate.
http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/108/3/121
That is like saying every team in the NCAA is required to play 5 basketball players to be in the tournament.

I.e. "Required" rarely leads to excellent.

Doesn't mean all the teams are the same quality.:)
 

Daedra22

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I Picked NSU-COM over three of these places (first 3). It all depends what you're looking for and what you want out of medical school.
NSU is certainly respectable as well. People should always keep in mind that one schools' curriculum might work better than another, and some people thrive best in certain regions (I would be very out-of-place on the east coast, for example). Picking a med school is a very subjective experience.

Also, Kramerica, your avatar makes me smile.
 

p30doc

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NSUCOM is #1 ;)
 

Bacchus

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Its hard to make a list. Mine was more tongue in cheek. But I would say there is a definite pool of "better" schools. But every once in a while there is a shocker, for any DO school. UNE students matched in ACGME rad and radonc this year. WOW.
 

PunkmedGirl

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That is like saying every team in the NCAA is required to play 5 basketball players to be in the tournament.

I.e. "Required" rarely leads to excellent.

Doesn't mean all the teams are the same quality.:)
I didn't say anything about whether the rotations were quality or not but that all schools are required to have a clinical rotation sites which means they have connections to clinical sites. There are only a few schools that are new and haven't had students rotate yet and then maybe an additional two schools with sappy rotations. Touro-NY & Touro-CA are the main ones that I have heard to have problems with their clinical department.
 

Just Joshin

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I'd add KCUMB. It's one of the older DO schools with an excellent reputation across the country.
 

MSmentor018

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the only top school is the one you're going to excel at. don't get too caught up into stats. make sure it's a place 1. you're willing to go (location) 2. program that you think you learn best at (PBL, SBL, IDP..etc). then sort out the smaller stuff like rotation, cost, social stuff....etc. that'll help cut your list down. regardless of where you attend, and this is an across the board generalization; when you apply for residency, a high gpa and board scores will outweigh what anyone would consider is a "top school"
 
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On WVSOM's site it says that it has been ranked at a top medical school in the nation for 11 consecutive years!

TCOM says its has been ranked at the top 50 in the nation for 7 consecutive years!

PCSOM says it has been ranked as the top 20 for rural medicine!

MSUCOM says it has been ranked 7th in primary care!
 

MegaSpectacular

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Looks like there are a lot of NSU students on SDN. :laugh:
NSU-COM getting lots of respect in these parts...

To those of you saying, "doesn't matter, any school will do." I will have to disagree.

Yes in the end, your board scores/GPA/personality/etc will end up being the difference, BUT... lets say you are in the 85th percentile in all of these areas, if you went to a school that is brand new and has poor 3rd and 4th year rotations vs PCOM, NYCOM, CCOM, DMU, NSUCOM, TCOM, I believe you will be a bit better off with an established program.

YES, you still have 100% control of your destiny wherever you go, but your chances improve slightly by being in a better connected program. I think everyone would agree, not saying you can't succeed at any school, just that some schools will facilitate the process a bit.
 
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NSU-COM getting lots of respect in these parts...



YES, you still have 100% control of your destiny wherever you go, but your chances improve slightly by being in a better connected program. I think everyone would agree, not saying you can't succeed at any school, just that some schools will facilitate the process a bit.
Sorry, but if you have 100% control then there is no room for chance to play a factor. :p Not saying I disagree or agree, but I hate blatant contradictions.

P.S: MSUCOM is the best DO school. ;)
 

MegaSpectacular

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the only top school is the one you're going to excel at. don't get too caught up into stats. make sure it's a place 1. you're willing to go (location) 2. program that you think you learn best at (PBL, SBL, IDP..etc). then sort out the smaller stuff like rotation, cost, social stuff....etc. that'll help cut your list down. regardless of where you attend, and this is an across the board generalization; when you apply for residency, a high gpa and board scores will outweigh what anyone would consider is a "top school"
again, agreed.

But this doesn't mean that going to unestablished school vs high quality established school will matter somewhat. I'm not talking about perception of school quality, I'm talking about tangible measurable differences in quality of the schools program. Again, I will specifically refer to 3rd and 4th year rotations. I read some horror stories on SDN about some of the newer schools rotations being an absolute joke and completely unprofessional. This isn't just "oh what school is the coolest?" We are talking about important differences here.
 

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Its hard to make a list. Mine was more tongue in cheek. But I would say there is a definite pool of "better" schools. But every once in a while there is a shocker, for any DO school. UNE students matched in ACGME rad and radonc this year. WOW.

So far PCOM has 5 Radiology matches this year. 4 of them are ACGME.

I also know of one neurosugery (ACGME?) and a couple ophtho. I
 

MegaSpectacular

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Sorry, but if you have 100% control, then there is no room for chance to play a factor. :p Not saying I disagree or agree, but I hate blatant contradictions.
What I am saying is, if you are dedicated and work hard; and set the goal for ____ specialty or whatever, and it is within your abilities and you are willing to spend extra years going after it if you don't succeed at first, and you are 100% dedicated, in the end you should have control over your destiny.

It really isn't a contradiction, maybe it was poorly written though.

Lets say I want to work for a fortune 500 company, if I got to Harvard and get an MBA my chances will be high right after school. But if I go to a state school then my chances might be lower.

In the end, (i.e. within working 20 or 30 years), you should have control over your destiny as far as setting and achieving the goal. BUT your chances are higher right off the back in a better environment.

The ideas seem to contradict but they don't. One is saying immediate opportunity, the other is referring to your career as a whole.
 

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This question has really been asked many times on SDN. It seems like the OP knows these answers already and is really just trying to get everyone to beat this dead horse once again.

Oh...and NSU is the best.
And the one you get into.
 

MSmentor018

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I'm talking about tangible measurable differences in quality of the schools program. Again, I will specifically refer to 3rd and 4th year rotations. I read some horror stories on SDN about some of the newer schools rotations being an absolute joke and completely unprofessional.
very true...and it's a crapshoot. some rotations are fantastic, some not so. and that's definitely the lumps of a new school/rotations but that's in established places too. plus (some) docs get paid to have students, a title, and their CME's taken care of which is an incentive to keep the academic connection. with that being said i wouldn't choose a school specifically of it's attachment to clinical sites. most pre meds don't know what they want to do, only see "advertised names" and as a 3rd yr, you're just happy to get out of the books and start seeing patients. going to a residency training center as a 3rd yr is not all that its' cracked up to be. on rotations the venting/ rumor mill spins fast and hard. what people thought were "well established" rotations b/c their school sent them there turned out being a "I didn't get to do crap rotation but I learned a lot by watching" or "I was worked to death and didn't get a chance to study for boards"

as a measurable diff between schools, find some students from that school and email them, ask them what they think about it. it's all subjective, you're rotation is what you make of it. you'll learn something from good and bad docs, either to emulate them or never act like them....and definitely don't use the match list as a factor!!
 

MegaSpectacular

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very true...and it's a crapshoot. some rotations are fantastic, some not so. and that's definitely the lumps of a new school/rotations but that's in established places too. plus (some) docs get paid to have students, a title, and their CME's taken care of which is an incentive to keep the academic connection. with that being said i wouldn't choose a school specifically of it's attachment to clinical sites. most pre meds don't know what they want to do, only see "advertised names" and as a 3rd yr, you're just happy to get out of the books and start seeing patients. going to a residency training center as a 3rd yr is not all that its' cracked up to be. on rotations the venting/ rumor mill spins fast and hard. what people thought were "well established" rotations b/c their school sent them there turned out being a "I didn't get to do crap rotation but I learned a lot by watching" or "I was worked to death and didn't get a chance to study for boards"

as a measurable diff between schools, find some students from that school and email them, ask them what they think about it. it's all subjective, you're rotation is what you make of it. you'll learn something from good and bad docs, either to emulate them or never act like them....and definitely don't use the match list as a factor!!
:thumbup: good advice
 

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I didn't say anything about whether the rotations were quality or not but that all schools are required to have a clinical rotation sites which means they have connections to clinical sites. There are only a few schools that are new and haven't had students rotate yet and then maybe an additional two schools with sappy rotations. Touro-NY & Touro-CA are the main ones that I have heard to have problems with their clinical department.
Eh. I'll speak on behalf of someone in TouroNY and with family who went through TouroCA. CA has pretty bad clinicals, thats always been the case. NY made a big effort to make sure that our clinical rotations are nowhere near as bad as theirs and they greatly succeeded. The current third years did get shafted a bit (since some of them had their schedules scrambled about a good bit last minute), but current second years got really really good rotation sites to pick from. I'm going to dismiss almost any negative from my school's second year class because they are whining that they have to move to rotate at hospitals that range from 10 minutes to 1 hour from manhattan and they dont want to leave their nice midtown apartments, but cant handle the commute otherwise.

Though we are definitely a school a a good number of years from being anywhere near a top DO school convo, we are improving crazy fast and nowhere near TouroCAs issues with clinicals. And we just for our second ever 3rd year class (no offense to TouroCA, but you guys do have a miserable reputation for clinical rotations)
 

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What truly matters is NOT where you go to school but WHAT you do when you get there. If you are proactive and do what it takes to get the most out of your education, you can get your pick for residency coming from the most no-name med school. Trust me. Go to the school that fits you (and family/spouse) best.
 
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Bacchus

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So far PCOM has 5 Radiology matches this year. 4 of them are ACGME.

I also know of one neurosugery (ACGME?) and a couple ophtho. I
That's good to hear! Guess a lot of people wanted it this year.
 

DocHolliday21

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Hello, I am applying soon. What are the top handful of DO schools out there? (say top 5-7), any links or lists?

Thx


Hey bro, everyone that applies to DO schools wants to know and there is little information out there. When I was applying to schools I did about as much research as I possibly could. Following are some of the things I looked at which definately did not apply to everyone, but applied to me. If your in a similar situation, then use my list if you wish. I looked at the following in no particular order:

1) Average MCAT and GPA
2) Average COMLEX scores
3) % going into specialities vs. primary care (i thought i wanted to do anesthesia initially, but decided on psychiatry now so you never know...but it's good to pick a program that regularly puts people into specialities if that's what your interested in...even if people say "it's really up to the person not the school" --- actually this was a major deciding factor on where I finally chose to go.
4) Location
5) 3 & 4th year rotations
6) Research


My list:

1) TCOM - high primary care (b/c ppl actually want to go into it and can afford to go into it), low tuition rate instate, top COMLEX scores, highest NIH research dollars, great reputation, high mcat and gpa

2) UNDNJ - great match lists, high COMLEX scores, research funding only second to TCOM, reasonable tuition, their hospital is very very good and compared with other DO hospitals, I would say is the best (but that is arguable), high mcat and gpa

DROPS A LEVEL

3) PCOM - large % go into specialities, great match lists, good reputation, like the city

4) CCOM - similar to PCOM, i don't remember too much about it b/c it has been 3 years, but I remember being impressed with their school

5) KCUMB - large % go into specialities, great match lists, very good reputation, big downside is questionable clinical rotations, their curriculum is a huge plus, high MCAT & gpas

DROPS A LEVEL

6) NSU - phenomenal campus, i can't believe i actually talked myself out of not going here, great location, again was really impressed with the school three years ago, but don't remember too much now.

7) NYCOM - large % into specialities, great match lists, don't remember too much thou sorry



In the end, DO NOT listen to the people on SDN that tell you all schools are equal. All schools are not equal. This is MY LIST, and I came up with it with tons and tons of research. Do your research very carefully before you decide which school is right for you. This is the first time I answered a thread "how would rank DO schools" and I only responded because you seem to be an informed student.


Good luck to you.



Doc.
 
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BobBarker

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People always forget about OSU. It is part of a major public university, has it's own hospital, and you can do all 4 years in the same place. We matched very well this year. 5 osteo ortho, 2 osteo ent, 1 osteo urology, 3 osteo anesthesia, 1 osteo neurosurgery, and 5 allopathic anesthesia. Had one guy going for acgme plastics. Haven't heard if he was successful yet.
 

MSmentor018

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People always forget about OSU. It is part of a major public university, has it's own hospital, and you can do all 4 years in the same place. We matched very well this year. 5 osteo ortho, 2 osteo ent, 1 osteo urology, 3 osteo anesthesia, 1 osteo neurosurgery, and 5 allopathic anesthesia. Had one guy going for acgme plastics. Haven't heard if he was successful yet.
I always thought plastics was a fellowship.....
 

BobBarker

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Integrated plastics residency, not the fellowship.
 

TeamZissou

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Mine B==========D~~~~

Yours B=====D


I believe this finalizes the matter. ;)
 

MegaSpectacular

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Hey bro, everyone that applies to DO schools wants to know and there is little information out there. When I was applying to schools I did about as much research as I possibly could. Following are some of the things I looked at which definately did not apply to everyone, but applied to me. If your in a similar situation, then use my list if you wish. I looked at the following in no particular order:

1) Average MCAT and GPA
2) Average COMLEX scores
3) % going into specialities vs. primary care (i thought i wanted to do anesthesia initially, but decided on psychiatry now so you never know...but it's good to pick a program that regularly puts people into specialities if that's what your interested in...even if people say "it's really up to the person not the school" --- actually this was a major deciding factor on where I finally chose to go.
4) Location
5) 3 & 4th year rotations
6) Research


My list:

1) TCOM - high primary care (b/c ppl actually want to go into it and can afford to go into it), low tuition rate instate, top COMLEX scores, highest NIH research dollars, great reputation, high mcat and gpa

2) UNDNJ - great match lists, high COMLEX scores, research funding only second to TCOM, reasonable tuition, their hospital is very very good and compared with other DO hospitals, I would say is the best (but that is arguable), high mcat and gpa

DROPS A LEVEL

3) PCOM - large % go into specialities, great match lists, good reputation, like the city

4) CCOM - similar to PCOM, i don't remember too much about it b/c it has been 3 years, but I remember being impressed with their school

5) KCUMB - large % go into specialities, great match lists, very good reputation, big downside is questionable clinical rotations, their curriculum is a huge plus, high MCAT & gpas

DROPS A LEVEL

6) NSU - phenomenal campus, i can't believe i actually talked myself out of not going here, great location, again was really impressed with the school three years ago, but don't remember too much now.

7) NYCOM - large % into specialities, great match lists, don't remember too much thou sorry



In the end, DO NOT listen to the people on SDN that tell you all schools are equal. All schools are not equal. This is MY LIST, and I came up with it with tons and tons of research. Do your research very carefully before you decide which school is right for you. This is the first time I answered a thread "how would rank DO schools" and I only responded because you seem to be an informed student.


Good luck to you.



Doc.
Thanks for taking the time, very helpful.