Top Internal Medicine Programs

[IMpassion]

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There's no definitive ranking. Fit is most important (geography, research opportunities, mentorship, feel, culture of program). Medicine is a very long road and bad fit only leads to burnout.

Strictly by academic reputation: There's no way to rank these individually. Any of these programs have the resources to offer comparable training to a serious resident.

Tier 1: UCSF, Hopkins, MGH, Brigham and Women's

Tier 1A: Penn, Duke, Stanford, UCLA, University of Washington, Michigan, WashU St. Louis, Columbia

Tier 1B: Cornell, Mayo Clinic, University of Chicago, BID, Yale

Other great programs (not exhaustive): Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Emory, UCSD, Mr. Sinai, NYU, UT Southwestern, Pittsburgh

But reputation is far from everything. From my experience, fit at the end of the day is what will make one most successful. Go for fit, not just ranking. Fit will more than tip the scale and make you more successful than a subjective ranking once you're at this level of programs.

As for clinical training, any one of dozens of programs in the U.S. from academic to community programs could offer excellent clinical training.

 

[jdh71]

haven't we already done this, like 5 times?

 

[tarlovcyst]

I find rankings very superficial, since the primary rankings are done by US News. They base their rankings off of how much NIH grant money a program gets. So if program A gets more money than program B, then that makes program A better?

OP, what is the point of ranking these "top" (high NIH grant-receiving" programs?

It's an ego stroker, if you ask me.

Frankly, there are some programs on there that I've been at that don't belong at the top. There are also some that should be in the top tier, but don't receive all that grant money.

You're right -- fit is most important.

 

[chitown82]

There's no definitive ranking. Fit is most important (geography, research opportunities, mentorship, feel, culture of program). Medicine is a very long road and bad fit only leads to burnout.

Strictly by academic reputation: There's no way to rank these individually. Any of these programs have the resources to offer comparable training to a serious resident.

Tier 1: UCSF, Hopkins, MGH, Brigham and Women's

Tier 1A: Penn, Duke, Stanford, UCLA, University of Washington, Michigan, WashU St. Louis, Columbia

Tier 1B: Cornell, Mayo Clinic, University of Chicago, BID, Yale

Other great programs: Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Emory, UCSD, Mr. Sinai, NYU, UT Southwestern, Pittsburgh

But reputation is far from everything. From my experience, fit at the end of the day is what will make one most successful. Go for fit, not just ranking. Fit will more than tip the scale and make you more successful than a subjective ranking once you're at this level of programs.

As for clinical training, any one of dozens of programs in the U.S. from academic to community programs could offer excellent clinical training.

I don't know why I respond to these threads. 😀

I would put Stanford and UCLA in 1B along with UTSW. I did not think that much of Emory.

 

[Susan Watts]

How would you rank Baylor's IM program?

 

[dragonfly99]

Baylor is good. Traditionally known for having a research-heavy department and having great affiliated clinical hospitals. They apparently lost their affiliation with one of the large private hospitals and also lost some good faculty recently, which will tend to hurt them, but still very solid. I would put Baylor on the level of Vanderbilt in the South/Midwest. UT Southwestern and WashU would trump those two if "reputation" is what you are most interested in, in terms of getting fellowship later. That doesn't mean the latter two offer any better clinical training...that probably would depend on you and your interests, and what clinical setting(s) you prefer. Also, whether you are a good "fit" for a program or not might be impossible to know until you are there...you can only TRY to find out during the interview process.

 

[sam1999]

Do authors of such threads work for different programs? May be not at top one which every one talks about but stick their programs somewhere in the middle or put their competition off top tier so their program can stand out.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

Do authors of such threads work for different programs? May be not at top one which every one talks about but stick their programs somewhere in the middle or put their competition off top tier so their program can stand out.

There are just a lot of people obsessed with rankings. If you follow college sports, then you know people like to rank things even though there is no objective standard. Pro sports don't need rankings as much because everyone plays the same teams, the schedules are more standard, and so actually win-loss record replaces the need for rankings...But in college sports, people obsess over rankings; hundreds of voters decide the AP and college top 25 every week, in both football and basketball (as well as several other less well known sports.) In football these rankings help to determine who plays in the title game. Most people prefer the NCAA basketball system where a ton of teams make the march madness tourney and decide it on the court----so rankings mean less in college basketball---yet people still obsess over them.

If we ever get a pay-for-performance type of healthcare reform, I'm sure people will get obsessed over their quality performance scores. Which would actually be a good thing. (maybe)

But I think it is natural to obsess over this sort of things. Many of us who are obsessing over it know that it really makes less difference than it feels like it makes, in the end.

 

[yankeescard]

There are just a lot of people obsessed with rankings. If you follow college sports, then you know people like to rank things even though there is no objective standard. Pro sports don't need rankings as much because everyone plays the same teams, the schedules are more standard, and so actually win-loss record replaces the need for rankings...But in college sports, people obsess over rankings; hundreds of voters decide the AP and college top 25 every week, in both football and basketball (as well as several other less well known sports.) In football these rankings help to determine who plays in the title game. Most people prefer the NCAA basketball system where a ton of teams make the march madness tourney and decide it on the court----so rankings mean less in college basketball---yet people still obsess over them.

If we ever get a pay-for-performance type of healthcare reform, I'm sure people will get obsessed over their quality performance scores. Which would actually be a good thing. (maybe)

But I think it is natural to obsess over this sort of things. Many of us who are obsessing over it know that it really makes less difference than it feels like it makes, in the end.

This is probably due to the fact that all of us are Type A personalities. I agree with most of the comments above. Bottom line - just be happy people! If the only way for that to happen is by you training at MGH then go for it.

 

[gutonc]

haven't we already done this, like 5 times?

More like 50...all today.

 

[Ariee]

haven't we already done this, like 5 times?

yes..this i believe is 6... makes me wanna upchuck
Let's play medical jeopardy instead...

 

[yankeescard]

yes..this i believe is 6... makes me wanna upchuck
Let's play medical jeopardy instead...

Agreed!!!

 

[sam1999]

There are just a lot of people obsessed with rankings. If you follow college sports, then you know people like to rank things even though there is no objective standard. Pro sports don't need rankings as much because everyone plays the same teams, the schedules are more standard, and so actually win-loss record replaces the need for rankings...But in college sports, people obsess over rankings; hundreds of voters decide the AP and college top 25 every week, in both football and basketball (as well as several other less well known sports.) In football these rankings help to determine who plays in the title game. Most people prefer the NCAA basketball system where a ton of teams make the march madness tourney and decide it on the court----so rankings mean less in college basketball---yet people still obsess over them.

If we ever get a pay-for-performance type of healthcare reform, I'm sure people will get obsessed over their quality performance scores. Which would actually be a good thing. (maybe)

But I think it is natural to obsess over this sort of things. Many of us who are obsessing over it know that it really makes less difference than it feels like it makes, in the end.

It is almost end of interview season and most people are making their minds about where to go. This was the first thread from this poster about a topic which is constantly discussed here. Most people who are not sure ask question but this poster was here to help other with his/her already made ranking list. That's why I was bit curious if he/she works for a program.

 

[Dr.TobiasFünke]

Is there a reliable resource for identifying strong programs other than US News (i.e fellowship placement lists). Is there any resource that can estimate your strength as a candidate at various programs. Very tough information to find...

 

[gutonc]

Is there a reliable resource for identifying strong programs other than US News (i.e fellowship placement lists). Is there any resource that can estimate your strength as a candidate at various programs. Very tough information to find...

Asking a crackhead on a bender will be more reliable than US News.

The answer to your question is no. If you've spent more than 15 seconds on SDN, you will have no doubt discovered that everyone has their own opinion on what a strong program is and, as such, it's different for everyone. There are places that most/all would agree are great (see scaredshizzles "Mystical 4") but there are hundreds of IM programs out there and, if you complete the training at any one of the, you'll have a job.

 

[Dr.TobiasFünke]

Asking a crackhead on a bender will be more reliable than US News.

The answer to your question is no. If you've spent more than 15 seconds on SDN, you will have no doubt discovered that everyone has their own opinion on what a strong program is and, as such, it's different for everyone. There are places that most/all would agree are great (see scaredshizzles "Mystical 4") but there are hundreds of IM programs out there and, if you complete the training at any one of the, you'll have a job.

Thanks!