Top Program Choices For Psychiatry Residency

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RedSox87 said:
There has been some chatter about Duke psychiatry residency on the discussion board. The unfortunate rumor is that Duke is a bad environment for residency in terms of work loading and other nonspecific social factors.

I am a second year Duke psychiatry resident and am happy to speak to this unfortunate misconception.

I have absolutely loved my training here. I have undoubtedly worked very hard as compared to other psychiatry programs. However, I feel rewarded in seeing a variety of patients, being entrusted with a great deal of responsibility and taking charge in the growth and care of my patients. I feel confident to tackle nearly any disease process I encounter (no, I'm not kidding).
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So I'll take that as a yes?
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RedSox87 said:
Please refer to the following videos that were recently posted to learn about Duke Psychiatry Residency. Interviews with our PD, chair, chief resident and vice chair.







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Those videos were painful to watch. Seemed quite forced.
 
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I think its finally setting in at Duke that many of the best applicants have zero interest in going there b/c their prestige is not good enough to make up for the lifestyle and they are trying to dig themselves out with little videos.

Instead they should be asking themselves why you need to do six 12 hour days a week on inpatient psychiatry.
 
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Armadillos said:
I think its finally setting in at Duke that many of the best applicants have zero interest in going there b/c their prestige is not good enough to make up for the lifestyle and they are trying to dig themselves out with little videos.

Instead they should be asking themselves why you need to do six 12 hour days a week on inpatient psychiatry.
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Granted I applied a few years back, but I really liked Duke. The residents appeared happy and intelligent. I ranked it highly, but in the end, leaving TX was too difficult.
 
TexasPhysician said:
Granted I applied a few years back, but I really liked Duke. The residents appeared happy and intelligent. I ranked it highly, but in the end, leaving TX was too difficult.
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Fair point

I should clarify before the Duke folks get riled up, I was exaggerating for effect. Applicants know duke is a good program and will make good psychiatrists.

I think the thing that makes it hard for some people to look past the lifestyle issues is that its not an isolated complaint and is something thats historically been present across the board at Duke. In the not so recent past I know duke general surgery proudly advertised a 100% divorce rate as a measure of the commitment of their residents and the quality of training you would receive.

End of the day its still psychiatry, so not going to be a malignant program by any means.
 
Armadillos said:
Fair point

I should clarify before the Duke folks get riled up, I was exaggerating for effect. Applicants know duke is a good program and will make good psychiatrists.

I think the thing that makes it hard for some people to look past the lifestyle issues is that its not an isolated complaint and is something thats historically been present across the board at Duke. In the not so recent past I know duke general surgery proudly advertised a 100% divorce rate as a measure of the commitment of their residents and the quality of training you would receive.

End of the day its still psychiatry, so not going to be a malignant program by any means.
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Wow, that is ridiculous.
 
Am I the only one who finds bow ties extremely odd in any context other than with a tuxedo?

Before anyone asks: Yes. I realize finding it extremely odd is a little odd in itself. :)
 
Armadillos said:
In the not so recent past I know duke general surgery proudly advertised a 100% divorce rate as a measure of the commitment of their residents and the quality of training you would receive.
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The quote was actually "110% divorce rate" amongst general surgery residents at Duke. :p
 
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slappy said:
It jibes with the socks and shoes.
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I can never tell if people who dress that way is just trying too hard to look different or really quirky and clothing choice is an uncontrollable expression... kind of like a tic.

It's also possible that I could be such a boring person that relating to someone taking that much time to be noticed is difficult.
 
I've done a 180 on bow ties. I used to actually hate them to a degree which was more than odd. So I get that weirdness. But as far as ties go they're extremely practical. No dangling fabric. No MRSA gathering. They're better for hot weather. And I'm hot year round. And they look better when you're wearing just pants shirt and tie. A regular tie without a vest or coat is now the look that I hate with equal irrational wiredness.

@Winged Scapula--whaaaat? 110%? Your marriage will be so bad people you know will get divorced?
 
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Nasrudin said:
@Winged Scapula--whaaaat? 110%? Your marriage will be do bad people you know will get divorced?
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The (perhaps) apocryphal statistic was that Duke General Surgery residents had a 110% divorce rate during their 7+ years of training (for those going into CT Surgery it was a "decade with Dave [Sabiston]); this means that some were divorced more than once, right? It had nothing to do with your friends getting divorced.
 
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jakeislove said:
I can never tell if people who dress that way is just trying too hard to look different or really quirky and clothing choice is an uncontrollable expression... kind of like a tic.

It's also possible that I could be such a boring person that relating to someone taking that much time to be noticed is difficult.
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For me its an element of showing you give a crap enough to dress in a self expressive and proper way. But also I love colors and patters and feeling that mixed harmony on my body. And if my ass looks good in well cut pants enough for you to notice...well then that's ok too. Like that sort of.

That and I hate the American Protestant aesthetic and style of life.
 
Nasrudin said:
For me its an element of showing you give a crap enough to dress in a self expressive and proper way. But also I love colors and patters and feeling that mixed harmony on my body. And if my ass looks good in well cut pants enough for you to notice...well then that's ok too. Like that sort of.

That and I hate the American Protestant aesthetic and style of life.
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Clothing are more or less a functional necessity, for me. If it were about self-expression, I'd be in pajamas or naked. :)

Now that you've brought up the point: I am a little curious about the extent to which people choose clothing as a means of self-expression and make inferences based upon dress.

My dress shirts/pants are identical so there's no time spent thinking about clothes. Color coordinating or looking for neon green socks would take time away from my silly meanderings, LOL!
 
jakeislove said:
Clothing are more or less a functional necessity, for me. If it were about self-expression, I'd be in pajamas or naked. :)

Now that you've brought up the point: I am a little curious about the extent to which people choose clothing as a means of self-expression and make inferences based upon dress.

My dress shirts/pants are identical so there's no time spent thinking about clothes. Color coordinating or looking for neon green socks would take time away from my silly meanderings, LOL!
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Well clothing is functional. As is sex. But as to each, if seen as only function, ceases to be anything but tedium. My boners are more directed towards fantasy and play than to making babies. As is the way I dress to please myself.
 
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Duke General surgery residents work 3 hours less per week than the national average and also have a higher average time off between shifts. (FRIEDA 2013) They are well aware of lifestyle issues that plague surgery programs nationally, and I am proud of them for their hard work in addressing this. I am happy to call many surgery residents at Duke my friends and colleagues. They are a happy and intelligent bunch :)

By the way, that statistic of 110% divorce is completely made up - it's hard to argue with fantasy...

Duke is a dynamic institution and is succeeding at keeping pace with the changing times. Residents and attendings look out for each other and residents here have a voice unlike any other institution I have trained or worked at. Our goal is to build excellent providers and nourish the kindness and humanity at the core of every good doctor, to ultimately help our patients. If any applicants have questions regarding life style, work hours, benefits or otherwise, please don't hesitate to PM me.
 
What type of step 1 score do you need to match at a top psychiatry program? And do you need research? I'm a first year at a US allopathic school.
 
In terms of step 1, the I believe the average is now a 220 for psych. The average has increased by 6 points in the past 3 years. And I suspect it will still trend up, so maybe a 225-230 average in 3 years and for top programs, above a 230-235. And research is a good experience to have - despite whether or not it relates exactly to your field of residency. For instance, I did a year of research on education systems, which is not exactly psychiatry...

I would also pay attention to step 2. Most of my resident mates have in the 250's and up, so I think top programs will be emphasizing step 2 more than they used to, as it's very clinical and more relevant to actual practice.

Ultimately, you have a few years and psych is pretty chill, so I wouldn't sweat it too much for now. Just hit those books hard, have fun, and find an advisor you can trust. ;-)
 
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I am surprised that Duke would make PR YouTube videos. In the world of academic psychiatry, Duke is regarded as having one of the finest and most established departments and training programs in the country. Whatever the work schedule is (or isn't), the clinical training is superb and the department is elite. Dr. Lisanby is one of the superstars in psychiatry.

That said, Duke is not even the team to hate anymore; that distinction belongs to Kentucky because Calipari is a d-bag.
 
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This thread is getting strange.
 
I agree. It'd be even stranger if RedSox is GreenSox.
 
Well never know...muwahahaha. But ya I'm not greensox. Lol that's a great nickname though. And now that I think of it, he does usually wear very colorful shoes and socks...
 
When I interviewed with Duke, everyone there seemed very unhappy. Same issue at some of the other big name institutions. I don't get why anyone would intentionally go somewhere to be miserable for at least 4 years if not planning on an academic career. I went where the residents and attendings seemed happy and it was the best decision for me.
 
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I totally agree that quality of life and overall happiness of a program is very important. The reality is that one interview day is merely a snapshot of a program, and certainly doesn't capture the whole picture. My best piece of advice for young med studs about to interview is to pick your favorite 2-3 programs and do a second look. I did that at all 4 of my top programs and it helped my decision immensely.

What attracted me to Duke may be different than what attracts someone else to a program. What attracts me is that it is a passionate, exciting, and energetic place and people here are just so damn excited about their work. And to be amongst a a group of psychiatrists like this is really something special.

And my life quality is nice. I still have time to catch shows, hit the bars, have fun outings, skateboard at one of many local skate parks, spend quality time with my wife, and veg on the couch. And frankly the cost of living in Durham and our respective salary/benefits make life pretty damn comfortable.

Sorry you had a bad experience, milesed - come on back some time, and we will correct that wrong ;-). This is not PR via SDN. This is just info I wish I had when I interviewed across the country. It's just the truth and if any positive ideas about a program seem like PR to anyone, then I am very worried about your residency programs; not mine.

Again, medical students welcome to PM me with questions :)
 
Hahahaha! How'd you get that picture?! Damn paparazzi
 
RedSox87 said:
Sorry you had a bad experience, milesed - come on back some time, and we will correct that wrong ;-). This is not PR via SDN. This is just info I wish I had when I interviewed across the country. It's just the truth and if any positive ideas about a program seem like PR to anyone, then I am very worried about your residency programs; not mine.
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Certainly helpful to hear about your positive experiences, important data for any applicant. However your reaction to people viewing it as PR is a non-sequitur, and you can hardly be suprised that people thought that considering all the videos you posted in the 'top program choices' thread.

What would be additionally helpful would be to provide a bit of concrete data about the work schedule - clearly it is possible to have a very rich experience and be working very hard, but people have a right to know just how hard, and to that end, duty hours seem a useful metric.
 
It's not a non-sequitur. It's my response to the post below...

Dharma said:
PR via SDN...
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I've answered the question of hours in the past, so please check out my old posts (there aren't many) including my original post-interview review of Duke Psych. ;-)

My average total hours per week for PGY1 year was 57 hours per week. I rarely came close to the 80 hour limit except on tough weeks, due to high turnover, etc on gen med.

Ultimately, SDN is an informational site for medical students; not a witch-hunt against any particular program. I never bad mouth other programs because I consider it tasteless and inappropriate, as I can only speak to my actual training experience and do not want to be part of the toxic rumor mill as has been evident on SDN in the past.

As such, I figured that this would be an appropriate forum for informational videos on Duke's Psychiatry residency....and I posted it under "top programs" because that was where Duke had been mentioned by others users and I agree that it is indeed a top program.
 
RedSox87 said:
It's not a non-sequitur. It's my response to the post below...
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Yes, but you said that if people view them as 'PR' that it would make you very worried about their programs - which doesn't appear to be a fair conclusion.

And again, I do think your contributions are helpful - that doesn't mean that they couldn't reasonably be construed as PR, which isn't necessarily a problem anyway.
 
Where (or does?) Brown fit into the top program landscape for someone interested in academics? Obviously its not MGH/UCLA/etc, but is it still pretty high up there or everyone just know the name because its an Ivy?
 
Second year Duke psychiatry resident here :D

First year experience: there are months which are totally chill, followed by months with a good balance, and a few tough months (ie. Internal medicine, Med-psych rotation). Different programs offer different perks; just keep in mind what you are looking for in a program because they vary greatly. Personally, I wanted to get a strong foundation of psychotherapy, psychopharmacology, and the opportunity to explore global mental health and psychoanalysis in depth. The city and property market were secondary factors. I was fortunate to match at Duke because it was the only program which hit all those criteria out of the 15+ I ranked. Loving the training so far! Private message me if you have any questions! :D
 
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The second set of the Duke Psychiatry Residency videos. Enjoy.

Resident Group Interview


Attending group Interview


PM me with questions
 
Can anyone give me some info about NYC psych programs? I am a decent psych candidate, but not spectacular at all, so I know that the ultra competitive residencies are not realistic for me.
 
Winged Scapula said:
The quote was actually "110% divorce rate" amongst general surgery residents at Duke. :p
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My attending told us today that the figure was a 150% divorce rate because "everyone who was married got divorced and the half of the people who remarried got divorced AGAIN". He also said the residency was referred to as the "Decade With Dave" because residents had to do so much research that it took 10 years to graduate. Dave was the chairman of the department.
 
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Rogue Penguin said:
My attending told us today that the figure was a 150% divorce rate because "everyone who was married got divorced and the half of the people who remarried got divorced AGAIN". He also said the residency was referred to as the "Decade With Dave" because residents had to do so much research that it took 10 years to graduate. Dave was the chairman of the department.
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Yes I'm quite familiar with Dave. ;)
 
Michigan talks about how they stress psychotherapy more than most programs. Does it look like they stress it more from the link below or is it close to other programs? I have heard that we can incorporate as much psychotherapy into our practice as we want. Seems like a great program and I would love to be there but just curious about what everyone thinks. I also really like Pitt so I am comparing them a little.

http://www.psych.med.umich.edu/education/general_psychiatry/psychotherapy_training.asp
 
FranzLO said:
Michigan talks about how they stress psychotherapy more than most programs. Does it look like they stress it more from the link below or is it close to other programs? I have heard that we can incorporate as much psychotherapy into our practice as we want. Seems like a great program and I would love to be there but just curious about what everyone thinks. I also really like Pitt so I am comparing them a little.

http://www.psych.med.umich.edu/education/general_psychiatry/psychotherapy_training.asp
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I like Michigan's approach. They probably stress it "about the right amount", and it looks like they're still running the didactics and conferences according to much the same structure they did [mumblety mumble] years ago when I was there. It's probably more than Pitt, less than Longwood and other spots in the NE corridor--but a good balance and good teaching.
 
@OldPsychDoc maybe I've missed this but any recommendation for "top tier" programs that have a good balance between therapy and psychopharm? Will all of the top-tier programs have this to some degree? I imagine you don't get considered highly if you're cut and dry "UC = psychopharm / NE = therapy"
 
scudiera said:
@OldPsychDoc maybe I've missed this but any recommendation for "top tier" programs that have a good balance between therapy and psychopharm? Will all of the top-tier programs have this to some degree? I imagine you don't get considered highly if you're cut and dry "UC = psychopharm / NE = therapy"
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The degree to which all "top tier" programs consider themselves to "have a good balance between therapy and psychopharm" is probably only superceded by the degree to which all "top tier" candidates are seeking programs with a "good balance.":rolleyes:

In other words, it really doesn't matter outside of Manhattan and Boston--and not so much even there. (And don't let my endorsement of UMich's therapy program lead you to believe they won't give you top notch biological and community training as well. I happen to think it's a very well-rounded program, and prepared me well for just about everything* I've encountered since.)

*except methamphetamine addicts--I asked my addictions mentor about this after a couple of years on my own, and all he had to say was "Of course you didn't see any meth here...the cocaine cartels drove them all out!" :laugh:
 
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HarryMTieboutMD said:
Other programs to consider that still provide high quality training and have renowned faculty, though they might not be as competitive (meaning, people want to live in NYC/Cali) as some of the others you mentioned:
South: Emory, Vanderbilt, Duke
Mid Atlantic: Hopkins
Midwest: Wash U, University of Chicago (despite what people on SDN say, this program is on the rise)
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edit:
I was going to ask where this "program on the rise" stuff for UofC keeps coming from then I realized I'm probably just reading an old thread twice.

Still, with the exception of the excellent psychosomatic department at UC, the other two big psych programs are at or above them.
 
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Just curious why Stanford isn't on your list. Have you heard bad things? Thanks!

schwartz said:
I'm applying for next year's match and with 15 days out to send out the applications, my research about the programs is almost complete. I'm a fairly strong applicant and I hope to get interviews from most everywhere. I still want to apply to 20+ places because 1) I'm inherently paranoid about these things, and 2) I have a ton of time in my hands, and want to use this opportunity to explore the different cities as well. I'm single, and I have NO geographical preferences (apart from preferring cold to very hot weather aka Arizona/Texas). These are what I have so far, not necessarily in order:

MGH/McLean
Longwood
Cambridge
Columbia
Cornell
NYU
MSSM
UCLA
UCSF
UCSD
UW-Seattle
MCW
Northwestern
UPenn
UPitt
UMich
MUSC
UNC
UTSW-Dallas
Brown
Yale

Please don't tell me that something on the list, like Yale, is not very competitive, and they are not traditionally considered as one of the top programs in the country. I've been speaking to many, many people since the start of my third year to come up with this list, and each program on it belongs there for one reason or the other. I've also left out some programs that seem good on paper but are notoriously workhorse-ish like Baylor or OHSU.

What are the other top programs in the country I have missed? Top either in overall training like MGH/McLean, or exceptional in a few particular aspects of psychiatry like Cambridge, Cornell and MCW in psychotherapy training.

TIA!
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schwartz said:
I'm applying for next year's match and with 15 days out to send out the applications, my research about the programs is almost complete. I'm a fairly strong applicant and I hope to get interviews from most everywhere. I still want to apply to 20+ places because 1) I'm inherently paranoid about these things, and 2) I have a ton of time in my hands, and want to use this opportunity to explore the different cities as well. I'm single, and I have NO geographical preferences (apart from preferring cold to very hot weather aka Arizona/Texas). These are what I have so far, not necessarily in order:

MGH/McLean
Longwood
Cambridge
Columbia
Cornell
NYU
MSSM
UCLA
UCSF
UCSD
UW-Seattle
MCW
Northwestern
UPenn
UPitt
UMich
MUSC
UNC
UTSW-Dallas
Brown
Yale

Please don't tell me that something on the list, like Yale, is not very competitive, and they are not traditionally considered as one of the top programs in the country. I've been speaking to many, many people since the start of my third year to come up with this list, and each program on it belongs there for one reason or the other. I've also left out some programs that seem good on paper but are notoriously workhorse-ish like Baylor or OHSU.

What are the other top programs in the country I have missed? Top either in overall training like MGH/McLean, or exceptional in a few particular aspects of psychiatry like Cambridge, Cornell and MCW in psychotherapy training.

TIA!
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You know people may act like they like you in person. But they really can't stand you
 
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