Top programs?

[deleted212936]

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Which programs have the most solid reputation and statistics?
I'm trying to narrow down my choices.
I completed a BA in Biology and all Premed prereqs, but both my GPA and MCAT are low (cGPA 3.48, 3.3 sGPA, 21 MCAT).
I'm economically disadvantaged (receive federal assistants) but not a URM. I'm looking for a program to enhance my academic credentials..

Hope to hear from you!

 

[drizzt3117]

what kind of program are you looking for? SMP?

 

[DrMidlife]

...and are you trying to get for fall '09 or fall '10?

 

[deleted212936]

what kind of program are you looking for? SMP?

It doesn't matter what kind. I only care about the quality.

I'm applying for (1) Spring '10 or (2) Fall '10

 

[DrMidlife]

It doesn't matter what kind. I only care about the quality.

I'm applying for (1) Spring '09 or (2) Fall '10

Yes it does matter; different programs serve different needs. Are your prereqs completed? What are your GPAs? IOW, what do you need from a program?

Spring '09 was a couple months ago.

 

[deleted212936]

Oh so that's what you want to know, sorry I wasn't clear.

I completed a BA in Biology and all Premed prereqs, but both my GPA and MCAT are low (cGPA 3.48, 3.3 sGPA, 21 MCAT).
I'm economically disadvantaged (receive federal assistants) but not a URM. I'm looking for a program to enhance my academic credentials.

I mean Spring '10 , sorry.

 

[mr2trd3]

Oh so that's what you want to know, sorry I wasn't clear.

I completed a BA in Biology and all Premed prereqs, but my GPA is low (cGPA 3.48, 3.3 sGPA).
I'm economically disadvantaged if it matters . I'm looking for a program to enhance my credentials.

I mean Spring '10 , sorry.

Have you taken the MCAT yet? With a solid MCAT score, you'd be fairly competitive for some DO programs and some low tier MD programs (not to say anything about the DO programs). However, since you have already taken all the premed prereqs, you will not qualify for most post-bacc programs. A SMP will fit you best.

 

[deleted212936]

Unfortunately my MCAT score is low, too: 21.
I plan to retake on August 6th.

 

[DrMidlife]

Unfortunately my MCAT score is low, too: 21.
I plan to retake on August 6th.

My advice is to NOT retake the MCAT until you can get well over 30, preferably like a 35. With a wicked great MCAT score, you can skip an SMP, and save about $30k. So if you're not ready to kill it Aug 6, postpone.

Do you have an opinion about DO yet?

 

[deleted212936]

Yes I'm applying for DO.
If I can't get MCAT score up to 27-28, I won't bother applying for MD.

Postponing to September will totally kill my chances because it'll be TOO late, don't you think? Now I'm studying very hard to get it up.
When I first took the MCAT, I totally lost track of time on the Physical section: I had 8 minutes left with 2 passages + a set of free questions to go (good job at sabotaging my score).

Where do SMP programs stand in terms of financial aid? Does FAFSA help?
Really if it comes down to having to go for SMP, I must take aid/loans to pay for it.

 

[deleted212936]

Well, let's go back to topic: there're many programs out there and I'd like to know where I can get some reference into their reputations & success rate ...

 

[DrMidlife]

Well, let's go back to topic: there're many programs out there and I'd like to know where I can get some reference into their reputations & success rate ...

Have you looked through the SMP 2009 list sticky at the top of the forum?

I recommend choosing some programs from that list, then look for ongoing and historical commentary about each program here in this forum. There's no MSAR, in other words.

For DO programs (with very little commentary) search for the 2008 SMP list thread.

 

[DrMidlife]

Also, you're well ahead of the application window for an SMP right now. Can I assume you're in the process of doing AMCAS/AACOMAS apps for fall '10, and that an SMP is something you want to do if that doesn't work out?

You mentioned being interested in programs starting spring '10. Are you saying you're looking for something productive to do during your MD/DO app year? An SMP is not a one-term thing. Also, the only "name" program that does spring admissions is Boston, which frequently requires 2 years to complete. Having an open application for a fall '10 MD/DO program would keep you out of matriculating anywhere during spring '10.

Lastly, the "good" "reputable" "name" SMPs typically start taking applications no sooner than October, such as apply starting in October '09 for fall '10 SMP start. You'll want a better MCAT in hand before taking on SMP apps.

Best of luck to you.

 

[drizzt3117]

Top programs in no particular order...

Georgetown
BU
Loyola
EVMS
Cincinnati

newer programs:
Tufts
NYMC

 

[camaras2480]

Which programs have the most solid reputation and statistics?
I'm trying to narrow down my choices.
I completed a BA in Biology and all Premed prereqs, but both my GPA and MCAT are low (cGPA 3.48, 3.3 sGPA, 21 MCAT).
I'm economically disadvantaged (receive federal assistants) but not a URM. I'm looking for a program to enhance my academic credentials..

Hope to hear from you!

Someone said it already - if you can nail the MCAT, with a strong overall package, you may be able to skip the SMP and get right in. Needless to say, an average MCAT (25-28) and you can still coast into DO programs. In terms of MD, I'd definitely say mid-30s. I had a slightly lower sGPA from my undergrad, with a 32 MCAT, and was interviewed at 5 schools after applying in September (lol, real late). I was waitlisted at all of them, so in the meantime I did an SMP (Boston University). I am in the current cycle, so I can't entirely say it helps your chances, but based on my grades here, I'm fairly optimistic.

Hope this helps!

 

[flip26]

Which programs have the most solid reputation and statistics?
I'm trying to narrow down my choices.
I completed a BA in Biology and all Premed prereqs, but both my GPA and MCAT are low (cGPA 3.48, 3.3 sGPA, 21 MCAT).
I'm economically disadvantaged (receive federal assistants) but not a URM. I'm looking for a program to enhance my academic credentials..

Hope to hear from you!

You need a 30+ MCAT just to get into an SMP. SMPs are for people with a poor undergrad record, but not too poor. SMPs expect applicants to have otherwise competitive MCAT scores, or 30+...

You have an MCAT problem, first and foremost.

What are you doing to correct the MCAT? How are you prepping differently this time? What kind of scores were you getting on the AAMC practice tests prior to the 21, and how is it going this time around? If you are not consistently scoring 30+, you are not ready to take this test in August. If you bomb the MCAT again, you may not be able to recover...don't make the hole you are in any deeper than it already is...

 

[camaras2480]

You need a 30+ MCAT just to get into an SMP.

Just a quick point - I know at least 8 people off the top of my head who have MCATs below 30 (even way below 30) who are in the SMP program at BU.

Extreme example cases:

1. Undergrad GPA: 3.23, MCAT 23
2. Undergrad GPA: 3.36, MCAT 19
3. Undergrad GPA: 3.04, MCAT 24

Granted, it would be very, very helpful to have an MCAT at 30 to get into the SMP, but note that an MCAT above 30 is also good enough for an allopathic school.

Everything else the previous post said - I like all that, right on haha.

 

[flip26]

Just a quick point - I know at least 8 people off the top of my head who have MCATs below 30 (even way below 30) who are in the SMP program at BU.

Extreme example cases:

1. Undergrad GPA: 3.23, MCAT 23
2. Undergrad GPA: 3.36, MCAT 19
3. Undergrad GPA: 3.04, MCAT 24

Granted, it would be very, very helpful to have an MCAT at 30 to get into the SMP, but note that an MCAT above 30 is also good enough for an allopathic school.

Everything else the previous post said - I like all that, right on haha.

The underlined is the point - SMP applicants need a competitive MCAT for what comes after the SMP...to admit people to an SMP with not only lousy grades but a way below matriculant average MCAT almost seems cruel.

I might conclude from what you have written that BU is ripping these poor souls off, because "most" legit SMPs require a competitive MCAT for admission - SMPs are intended to boost the academic preparedness of applicants with poor UG GPAs...

It does beg a question: how successful are these BU SMPers with the uber low MCATs when it comes to med school matriculation? My guess is "not very."

 

[camaras2480]

The underlined is the point - SMP applicants need a competitive MCAT for what comes after the SMP...to admit people to an SMP with not only lousy grades but a way below matriculant average MCAT almost seems cruel.

I might conclude from what you have written that BU is ripping these poor souls off, because "most" legit SMPs require a competitive MCAT for admission - SMPs are intended to boost the academic preparedness of applicants with poor UG GPAs...

It does beg a question: how successful are these BU SMPers with the uber low MCATs when it comes to med school matriculation? My guess is "not very."

Oh absolutely, it is a rip off, particularly for these candidates. And unless they do score a 30+ by the time they apply to med school, these students will probably end up representing the 10-15% of the BU SMPers who do not end up in med school - I definitely agree with you. I think we must not forget though that in the end, these programs are just money making machines for the schools. But nonetheless, the point of my post was just to indicate that I'm not sure it is fair to state you need a 30+ MCAT just to get into an SMP - this is a misleading statement.

 

[DrMidlife]

But nonetheless, the point of my post was just to indicate that I'm not sure it is fair to state you need a 30+ MCAT just to get into an SMP - this is a misleading statement.

I'd state it like this: "If you're thinking about an SMP, assume that you also need a 30+ MCAT to get into med school, whether you score that before or after the SMP."

The immediate disagreement with this would be from folks who are in SMPs like Tulane or EVMS, where there are super rad high odds of going directly into the host med school, regardless of your MCAT. But frankly I'd bet there are no more than a couple of sub-30 students in these super rad programs. Which brings me back to "don't plan on being an anecdote."

And I'd also not bet on getting away with a sub-30, in an SMP-needed situation, if the end goal is DO. They wiped the floor with me during DO interviews.

 

[camaras2480]

Sounds good - I second this 🙂👍
Well, the 🙂 and 👍 are certainly not intended at your mopping sessions haha, sorry to hear that 😱

And hey OP, hope you are reading these posts (from not just me, but also flip and DrMidLife). They make some good points!

I'd state it like this: "If you're thinking about an SMP, assume that you also need a 30+ MCAT to get into med school, whether you score that before or after the SMP."

The immediate disagreement with this would be from folks who are in SMPs like Tulane or EVMS, where there are super rad high odds of going directly into the host med school, regardless of your MCAT. But frankly I'd bet there are no more than a couple of sub-30 students in these super rad programs. Which brings me back to "don't plan on being an anecdote."

And I'd also not bet on getting away with a sub-30, in an SMP-needed situation, if the end goal is DO. They wiped the floor with me during DO interviews.

 

[flip26]

I'd state it like this: "If you're thinking about an SMP, assume that you also need a 30+ MCAT to get into med school, whether you score that before or after the SMP."

The immediate disagreement with this would be from folks who are in SMPs like Tulane or EVMS, where there are super rad high odds of going directly into the host med school, regardless of your MCAT. But frankly I'd bet there are no more than a couple of sub-30 students in these super rad programs. Which brings me back to "don't plan on being an anecdote."

And I'd also not bet on getting away with a sub-30, in an SMP-needed situation, if the end goal is DO. They wiped the floor with me during DO interviews.

Yes, I agree with this modification to what I said.

 

[House MD]

hmm.. So I don't want to turn this into an advice post and completely change the topic or anything, but I too am looking into post-bacs and SMPs for either the upcoming fall '09 or spring '10. I like the advice being given here and was wondering if anyone could help me out a little [all of my advisors have been of very little to no help at all :/ ]

Anyway..my stats are pretty miserable and I was thinking of doing a post-bac or SMP...

undergrad GPA: 3.482 [this does not include a physics class that I didn't take at my undergrad institution...not sure if I am supposed to factor that in or not]
science GPA: 3.148
MCAT: 22Q🙁

Graduated from a top 20 school, but I doubt that matters too much in the grand scheme of things...I've been accepted into the Drexel MSP program and the Barry BMS program [not too sure about either of them] and am waiting to hear back from American University post-bac.
I'm not sure if I should just do the Drexel MSP program or try to apply to some other programs like UPenn post-bac that start in the Spring.

Any pointers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[camaras2480]

hmm.. So I don't want to turn this into an advice post and completely change the topic or anything, but I too am looking into post-bacs and SMPs for either the upcoming fall '09 or spring '10. I like the advice being given here and was wondering if anyone could help me out a little [all of my advisors have been of very little to no help at all :/ ]

Anyway..my stats are pretty miserable and I was thinking of doing a post-bac or SMP...

undergrad GPA: 3.482 [this does not include a physics class that I didn't take at my undergrad institution...not sure if I am supposed to factor that in or not]
science GPA: 3.148
MCAT: 22Q🙁

Graduated from a top 20 school, but I doubt that matters too much in the grand scheme of things...I've been accepted into the Drexel MSP program and the Barry BMS program [not too sure about either of them] and am waiting to hear back from American University post-bac.
I'm not sure if I should just do the Drexel MSP program or try to apply to some other programs like UPenn post-bac that start in the Spring.

Any pointers or advice would be greatly appreciated.

General rules:

If you are going DO, postbac for a year, and raise MCAT to 28-30.
If you are going MD, SMP for a year, and raise MCAT to 33-34.

I could be totally wrong with this, but from the little bit I've heard, Drexel is better for linking into MD, whereas Barry would be better for linking into DO. Again, I'm not sure about this.

 

[mr2trd3]

@ House MD:

Decide whether it matters to you to have the MD or the DO. I'm not going to tell you that it shouldn't matter because you'll still be a physician. Everyone has their reasons and you are obligated to your own reasons.

If you don't care, I'd just work on getting at least a mid to high 20s on the MCAT and apply to DO schools. Keep in mind there are some top DO schools that will be difficult to get into as well, but for the most part, I think a solid MCAT with your GPA should suffice.

If you want an allopathic degree, there are a lot of SMP and/or post-bacc programs that you can look into. It's hard to say which one will fit you best, you just need to do a lot of research and decide for yourself. Also, you do NOT necessarily need a 33-34 MCAT score to hope to get into an MD program. There are a number of SMPs with high linkage to their host school that do NOT require a mid 30 MCAT. Don't get yourself too caught up with numbers.

With all that said, keep in mind that nothing will be a walk in the park and, obviously, the better your numbers, the better your chances. Again, don't get too hung up with numbers though.

 

[camaras2480]

Also, you do NOT necessarily need a 33-34 MCAT score to hope to get into an MD program. There are a number of SMPs with high linkage to their host school that do NOT require a mid 30 MCAT.

This is true - it just depends what type of school you are looking at.

Remember, doing an SMP doesn't make your ug GPA disappear. Many schools will still look at undergrad GPA and MCAT, and it would be nice to have a 33-34 with that 3.1-3.2.

Note that postbac hits ur GPA directly, unlike the SMP.