Totally bummed :(

[googlygrape]

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Hey everyone,

Sorry for the depressing post, but I got my second Ochem test back and I did horrible, even though I studied a significant amount more for this one. Here are my test scores and class avgs:

Test 1: My Score 26/100. Average 44/100

Test 2: My Score 27/100. Average 54/100

Any words of advice/comfort? I've been feeling pretty depressed these past few weeks so any kind words would be appreciated. Thanks guys

 

[Astral87]

oh man, those scores look scary. definitely ask if you can drop the course and maybe retake next semester or something. Or ask if there is any chance of you passing? And if he says you need to get a certain grade on the third exam, e.g. 70 or 80/100, then definitely seek some sort of one on one tutoring. you do not want to get owned by orgo since it is an important course in your predental career.

 

[Zubnaya Feya]

You should talk to the professor. He might give you an advice on studying techniques.
I am not sure how much you studied for both tests, but increasing study time would be a plus too.

Don't worry. It's just one class and it is not the end of the world if you screw up in it. You can retake if anything, right?
Good luck

 

[sddat]

my honest opinion is you need to study way harder and you should withdraw from the course immediately if possible. I don't think that you will pass with a C unless you study study study!! ask your professor tomorrow if possible. you need to have good communication with him/her when your grades are well below the average.

 

[Vicviper]

Don't worry, Ochem is hard for everybody, I got a D in my second semester, then I had to retake it.

I think my problem was that when I was trying to study, I didn't have the information organized in a way that let me clearly study it and digest it clearly. Here's a website someone posted here that I really wish that I had when I was taking Ochem, plus it was also really useful for the DAT:

http://undergrad-ed.chemistry.ohio-state.edu/Carey5th/useful/reagents/functional.html

As far as the class, talk to the teacher, and ask what he/she thinks. Be very honest about your situation, and they'll be honest too.

 

[enfuego]

Have you been going to office hours and such? Do you have a tutor?

Trust me, I know how you feel. I'm having a rough time in Orgo 2 as well. It's just not something that makes sense to me.

A couple people I know took a W in Orgo 2 and re-took it over the summer - they said it was a lot easier for them since they were already familiar with the material and they were ahead of the game, and they ended up doing pretty well. That might me something to consider.

If you can re-take Orgo and get a decent grade and then do well on the Orgo section of the DAT, I don't think this will be that bad.

 

[wwdaffodils]

Sometimes, you just have to know when to throw in the towel.

My advice? Take the W. Drop out of the course now (if you still can) and retake it when you're ready.

I know it sucks to hear, but with those scores, you're going to be struggling to even pass the course, let alone make a decent grade on your transcript. You have to be realistic and weigh the benefits vs. the cost of staying in the class, and realistically, it's going to be ridiculously difficult for you to learn all the material you obviously didn't learn for the first two tests on top of the new material you're going to have to learn for the next exam or exams.

Even though a W is not great, it's much better than a C or lower, which will calculate into your GPA (and even if you retake the course and do better, your new grade will be averaged with that C/D, so it's not that much better anyway). Take it from me- a W is not the end of the world. I pulled out of my Bio II course after I got a D on the first midterm, and am retaking it now. Because I know what kind of effort the course takes, I now have an A average in the course and am determined to keep it that way. Everyone has their ups and downs; admissions will understand as long as your transcript isn't littered with W's.

 

[NyCzPeter]

Sometimes, you just have to know when to throw in the towel.

My advice? Take the W. Drop out of the course now (if you still can) and retake it when you're ready.

I know it sucks to hear, but with those scores, you're going to be struggling to even pass the course, let alone make a decent grade on your transcript. You have to be realistic and weigh the benefits vs. the cost of staying in the class, and realistically, it's going to be ridiculously difficult for you to learn all the material you obviously didn't learn for the first two tests on top of the new material you're going to have to learn for the next exam or exams.

Even though a W is not great, it's much better than a C or lower, which will calculate into your GPA (and even if you retake the course and do better, your new grade will be averaged with that C/D, so it's not that much better anyway). Take it from me- a W is not the end of the world. I pulled out of my Bio II course after I got a D on the first midterm, and am retaking it now. Because I know what kind of effort the course takes, I now have an A average in the course and am determined to keep it that way. Everyone has their ups and downs; admissions will understand as long as your transcript isn't littered with W's.

yupp yupp. drop it out and try again

 

[googlygrape]

thanks for the advice everyone...

my last day to withdraw is the 14th of this month. I just can't decide. I'm scared that the W is just gna look so bad on my transcript. I'm already planning on retaking gen chem 1 (i effed up, i was a freshman, haha) so maybe I'll just retake orgo 2 at the same time.

Syracuse doesnt average the scores, they just replace it. do you think i should stick out with the course then re take or withdraw them retake with these circumstances?

 

[Maka]

IDK how your studying but it isn't working....I suggest approaching O-chem like you would a math class - just work the problems. When I took it, I was "reading" ochem, as if it were a biology class, and got worked my first test. I then started reading a little and doing A LOT of problems - from the book and from online, and my grades went right up.

Also, DEFINATELY W it...AADSAS averages your grades regardless of what Cuse does, so if you get a D this time and a A later...that'll come out to a C+...and that's if you get an A. If you come back, do it right, it'll be easier to get a B or higher. A W won't bury you, but a D or F or even a C in Ochem will look a lot worse. Just my 2 cents.

 

[PreDent08]

wow...i'm sorry to hear that. i think u just have to shift ur studying technique from prof. to prof. there's no reason why u shouldn't be able to get at least the class avg. when everyone else can. i don't know how many tests there are left, but i'd say if there's 2 or more, just stay positive and study ur best. good luck.

 

[wwdaffodils]

Don't worry, I get where you're coming from. For like, two semesters, I was obsessed with the W I had in Bio, and was so worried about how adcoms would look at my transcript, esp. since my ultimate goal is to get into a really great dental school. Truth is, I should have been worried, because a W isn't a good thing. Funny thing though- I think having that W there made me work even harder, knowing I had something to prove.

Just think of it that way- everyone screws up at least once in their undergrad years (if not many, many more), and so the only thing you've lost is your flexibility. You no have no option; you HAVE to do better. Just suck it up and do it. Use the rest of your semesters to prove that this minor slip-up is not indicative of what you're capable of.

And really, you have to change your study habits to do well in orgo. I feel like orgo is really just a mental game- it's not all that difficult to learn, and everyone can do it, but it takes a lot of concentration to get the concepts, and then even more time to apply those concepts to the problems that you're ultimately tested on.

 

[sddat]

thanks for the advice everyone...

my last day to withdraw is the 14th of this month. I just can't decide. I'm scared that the W is just gna look so bad on my transcript. I'm already planning on retaking gen chem 1 (i effed up, i was a freshman, haha) so maybe I'll just retake orgo 2 at the same time.

Syracuse doesnt average the scores, they just replace it. do you think i should stick out with the course then re take or withdraw them retake with these circumstances?

take the W!! AADSAS takes the average and that's the ONLY GPA that really matters.

 

[nydds25]

Either you have it or you don't with ORGO and you definitely don't. Retaking it and studying harder is not gonna help you get an A or B. You just have to have "it" with Orgo.

 

[dds4yrs]

Withdrawing is going to be WAY better for you in the end. A W won't look that bad. Remember a lot of schools will average together old and new grades. So IF you end up with a D this round and a B next time it still averages to a C. Study your butt off next time and try to take it in the summer! Fast paced but a little easier to only have that one class to focus on.

 

[sleepinxlionhar]

If you haven't already, you just need to nail your butt down to the chair and study(doing problems without looking at the solutions manual at the same time). It's just all about doing problems until you know your reactions, and mechanisms. I'd say take a W because once you go back and take it again, you'll look at the test and be like "how the heck did I make this mistake?" Like for me, right now, I look at my old test and I had 5 bonds to a carbon for an answer, and i was like WOW.....lol.

 

[supraman]

this piece of advice may sound really stupid but when I took OChem during school and when I studied for it on the DAT after I graduated, EVERYTHING made sense when I studied for it on the DAT. During school, I did poorly on it and I can say the reason is that you should read EVERYTHING. Even the stupid preface, if you read almost everything in the book from the beginning chapters on, everything makes sense. Orgo is actually simple and can be at times...err fun!

However, your professor may be a POS because the Orgo DAT is nothing like school Orgo, but then again I found old exams I bombed and after studying materials for Orgo DAT, I answered all the questions correct. Honestly, it's all about how you READ and comprehend the material.

 

[Shjfr]

thanks for the advice everyone...

my last day to withdraw is the 14th of this month. I just can't decide. I'm scared that the W is just gna look so bad on my transcript. I'm already planning on retaking gen chem 1 (i effed up, i was a freshman, haha) so maybe I'll just retake orgo 2 at the same time.

Syracuse doesnt average the scores, they just replace it. do you think i should stick out with the course then re take or withdraw them retake with these circumstances?

You did poorly in Orgo 1? Take the W in orgo 2, retake Orgo 1, and then retake Orgo 2. Why would you want to take two classes at the same time that you did poorly in? And you need to know Orgo 1 concepts to do well in Orgo 2.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Kneecoal]

i have to say, after reading all these posts about taking W's and retaking courses, i feel like i've been given the **** end of the stick with my adviser. she poo-pooed retaking courses that i didn't do well in because if i did better the second time around then all that would be thought was "well, of course she did better, she's seen the material already. therefore we don't care." is it really not that bad?? ugghhh.

 

[enfuego]

i have to say, after reading all these posts about taking W's and retaking courses, i feel like i've been given the **** end of the stick with my adviser. she poo-pooed retaking courses that i didn't do well in because if i did better the second time around then all that would be thought was "well, of course she did better, she's seen the material already. therefore we don't care." is it really not that bad?? ugghhh.

Well, if you have a bad grade, like C or below, you definitely should re-take. It'll help bring your GPA up. And dental schools don't accept anything below a C, I don't think. I agree that sometimes our advisors make me question about how much they know. I asked one of them about taking anatomy and she looked at me like I was crazy and told me not to worry about it, and I was like "it's definitely required for some schools, soo..." I took a W in a bio class and was told I shouldn't worry about re-taking it... which I wasn't planning on doing since I HATED that class.

 

[googlygrape]

You did poorly in Orgo 1? Take the W in orgo 2, retake Orgo 1, and then retake Orgo 2. Why would you want to take two classes at the same time that you did poorly in? And you need to know Orgo 1 concepts to do well in Orgo 2.

Just my thoughts...

i did poorly in GENERAL chemistry 1, i think it was just the craziness of being a freshman hahaha. Orgo 1 i did okay, so i dont want to retake it.

 

[jay47]

Don't worry, I get where you're coming from. For like, two semesters, I was obsessed with the W I had in Bio, and was so worried about how adcoms would look at my transcript, esp. since my ultimate goal is to get into a really great dental school. Truth is, I should have been worried, because a W isn't a good thing. Funny thing though- I think having that W there made me work even harder, knowing I had something to prove.

Just think of it that way- everyone screws up at least once in their undergrad years (if not many, many more), and so the only thing you've lost is your flexibility. You no have no option; you HAVE to do better. Just suck it up and do it. Use the rest of your semesters to prove that this minor slip-up is not indicative of what you're capable of.

And really, you have to change your study habits to do well in orgo. I feel like orgo is really just a mental game- it's not all that difficult to learn, and everyone can do it, but it takes a lot of concentration to get the concepts, and then even more time to apply those concepts to the problems that you're ultimately tested on.

Well, not everyone...

 

[theplge]

Definitely withdraw - ADCOMS look at so many applications (probably not that thoroughly) and a W is much easier to hide than an F, D, or even C in Organic. That kind of grade will kill your science GPA (especially if you aren't a science major) and that is a huge number in the admissions process.

Drop it and then maybe take it in the summer when it will be your only class.

Good luck

 

[student253]

IDK how your studying but it isn't working....I suggest approaching O-chem like you would a math class - just work the problems. When I took it, I was "reading" ochem, as if it were a biology class, and got worked my first test. I then started reading a little and doing A LOT of problems - from the book and from online, and my grades went right up.

Also, DEFINATELY W it...AADSAS averages your grades regardless of what Cuse does, so if you get a D this time and a A later...that'll come out to a C+...and that's if you get an A. If you come back, do it right, it'll be easier to get a B or higher. A W won't bury you, but a D or F or even a C in Ochem will look a lot worse. Just my 2 cents.

Couldn't agree with this more. 2nd quarter O-Chem=1.9, 3rd quarter O-Chem=1.8. I later reevaluted my study habits, the course, and studied at it more like a math class-->problem crunching. Retook 3rd quarter and got a 4.0 and got accepted to my first choice. Keep at it, it's not the end of the world.

 

[whateveryoulike]

if your class average is that low then your professor needs to be addressed for his/her ability to do their job. that or they need to address the fairness of their tests. that said, you scoring below average says that you are missing something key. I don't want this to come across wrong but what is your idea of "studying". I tutor for my university and I meet a lot of people who make identical claims to yours and the they fail to recognize the simple fact that "hard class" and "really studied for this one" are relative terms. I've found that the uglier you are, the better you do in classes because the less social distractions you have. Hence me doing so well (im fugly). Looking at your avatar, you look pretty attractive. If you are going clubbing or hanging out with friends and cramming the night before you might want to address that. Everyone I know that is attractive and isn't EXTREMELY driven is failing their preprofessional classes miserably and they all eventually change to psychology/communications/marketing majors and go back to partying. You might want to consider wearing one of those mexican wrestling masks to classes. That will freak people out and no one will talk to you, then you'll have free time to study. 😉

 

[smurf528]

At my school we have something called grade forgiveness in which if you get an F in a course you can retake it and that grade will replace the F. But, I find it hard to believe that you can do well in Orgo I and do bad in Orgo II. I'm taking Orgo II right now and it is cake-walk compared to Orgo I.

Personally I would try to stick it out and see if I can do better but I don't think you can pull it up that much unless there's a huge curve. Also, I agree with the previous poster. If the class average is that low then the professor should be evaluated. If you decide to take the W remember that you will have to explain why, and saying that you were messing around freshman year is not going to cut it. Good Luck!

 

[Waitlisted2009]

,

 

[enfuego]

if your class average is that low then your professor needs to be addressed for his/her ability to do their job. that or they need to address the fairness of their tests.

Have you never experienced a curve? At my school, science professors design the tests specifically so that the average is between a 50 and 65 (the target avg depends on the class and the prof) and then curve that up to a 75. Why? No idea. But that's what they do. I got a 69 on my last Orgo test, and I was so relieved because that turned out to be a B/B+ with the curve.

 

[War Eagle]

This is going to sound a lot like what people have said above, but let me just get it out there. O-chem is a killer class. That said, there is not one concept that is that incredibly difficult. There is just a ton of stuff to know and understand. It's all about putting in the time and repitition. I suggest doing every problem in the book and checking your answers in the solutions manual. If you don't understand why you're wrong, go to your teacher's office and ask for help. Write out the mechanisms over and over. I don't know what your current study habits are, but this seems to work for most people that struggle.

 

[smurf528]

For Orgo I I just looked at the reaction and mechanism and tried to memorize. That didn't help me at all!! I finally figured out that sitting for hours and doing every single problem was the only way that I can get it. Orgo takes a lot of time and is stressful. It is one of the hardest classes for a reason.

 

[yuppers]

yupp yupp.

Were you calling??🙂

But to the OP, like people said drop or start studying now for the next test and final. You should start by knowing everything on the old tests because ochem tends to build on itself.

 

[peerless218]

Hey everyone,

Sorry for the depressing post, but I got my second Ochem test back and I did horrible, even though I studied a significant amount more for this one. Here are my test scores and class avgs:

Test 1: My Score 26/100. Average 44/100

Test 2: My Score 27/100. Average 54/100

Any words of advice/comfort? I've been feeling pretty depressed these past few weeks so any kind words would be appreciated. Thanks guys

My advice to you. If you're having trouble with those 3-d isomers. Go buy a model kit on amazon. They're GREAT at helping you visualize the molecules!!! Your o-chem average is higher than my class's average when I took them. My class averages were like 35% - 45% on all 4 exams.

 

[peterngu]

I'd say to take a W, and retake the damn thing. Don't fret too much about getting a C here and there. I got 8 C's in core Science courses and still got my acceptance. Well, 9 if you count my Microbio retake that culminated in a C+.

 

[Shjfr]

i did poorly in GENERAL chemistry 1, i think it was just the craziness of being a freshman hahaha. Orgo 1 i did okay, so i dont want to retake it.

Oh I'm sorry I misread it.

Take the W and retake it.

I know quite a few people that got W's in Orgo 2 and still got in places. It is a tough class for some people.

Good luck.

 

[Jimmy Choo]

if your class average is that low then your professor needs to be addressed for his/her ability to do their job. that or they need to address the fairness of their tests. that said, you scoring below average says that you are missing something key. I don't want this to come across wrong but what is your idea of "studying". I tutor for my university and I meet a lot of people who make identical claims to yours and the they fail to recognize the simple fact that "hard class" and "really studied for this one" are relative terms. I've found that the uglier you are, the better you do in classes because the less social distractions you have. Hence me doing so well (im fugly). Looking at your avatar, you look pretty attractive. If you are going clubbing or hanging out with friends and cramming the night before you might want to address that. Everyone I know that is attractive and isn't EXTREMELY driven is failing their preprofessional classes miserably and they all eventually change to psychology/communications/marketing majors and go back to partying. You might want to consider wearing one of those mexican wrestling masks to classes. That will freak people out and no one will talk to you, then you'll have free time to study. 😉

I like you 😍

 

[whateveryoulike]

Have you never experienced a curve? At my school, science professors design the tests specifically so that the average is between a 50 and 65 (the target avg depends on the class and the prof) and then curve that up to a 75. Why? No idea. But that's what they do. I got a 69 on my last Orgo test, and I was so relieved because that turned out to be a B/B+ with the curve.

so you're defending a poor grading tactic by simply stating your professor does it too? that's not much of a defense unless you can name some advantages for handling your tests in that manner. I can name plenty of disadvantages: theres an element of uncertainty in curve classes so theres extra stress on students, making tests that hard encourages students to memorize key points in effort to pick up minor points and this lowers long term retention, and finally, some people will crutch on the curve and come up short.

 

[whateveryoulike]

I like you 😍

oh thanks, I like me too! 😀

 

[doc3232]

I like you 😍

I think I do too...

 

[Maka]

I never liked the classes where the teachers make it near impossible to score well without the curve. It's almost like learned helplessness - no matter what you do, you don't score above a 70...even if a 70=A. I find I do better with positive reinforcement than just getting worked on tests. When I took quantum physics, our tests were just super complex, maybe the guys from "The Big Bang Theory" would have enjoyed them... and then we had to learn how to use Mathmatica just to do our labs ;/. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying personally I do better and try harder if I know that there is a chance I can do well.

 

[austinsanity]

I like you 😍

The insidious choo shoe lover graces us with her presence! Congrats on choo-sing Harvard.

if your class average is that low then your professor needs to be addressed for his/her ability to do their job. that or they need to address the fairness of their tests. that said, you scoring below average says that you are missing something key. I don't want this to come across wrong but what is your idea of "studying". I tutor for my university and I meet a lot of people who make identical claims to yours and the they fail to recognize the simple fact that "hard class" and "really studied for this one" are relative terms. I've found that the uglier you are, the better you do in classes because the less social distractions you have. Hence me doing so well (im fugly). Looking at your avatar, you look pretty attractive. If you are going clubbing or hanging out with friends and cramming the night before you might want to address that. Everyone I know that is attractive and isn't EXTREMELY driven is failing their preprofessional classes miserably and they all eventually change to psychology/communications/marketing majors and go back to partying. You might want to consider wearing one of those mexican wrestling masks to classes. That will freak people out and no one will talk to you, then you'll have free time to study. 😉

I actually have to agree completely with this because I've seen it quite a few times as well, but it sounds as if someone is a little envious. 😀

I'll have to check eBay for those masks. Get down with some lucha libre.

 

[enfuego]

so you're defending a poor grading tactic by simply stating your professor does it too? that's not much of a defense unless you can name some advantages for handling your tests in that manner. I can name plenty of disadvantages: theres an element of uncertainty in curve classes so theres extra stress on students, making tests that hard encourages students to memorize key points in effort to pick up minor points and this lowers long term retention, and finally, some people will crutch on the curve and come up short.

I'm not defending it - I'm just saying that it's not unusual, and some places make it a policy to do things that way. All my science classes are graded that way, so you don't need to tell me about it. It definitely makes things a lot harder - we have to work a lot harder to get anything above a C. And then we look bad compared to students who go to other schools that have it easier.

 

[peerless218]

Hey question. When is the deadline for you guys to apply for a W at your school?? At my school, you only have about one month in the beginning of the semester to decide if you want to receive a W or not. Also, you NEED to have valid reasons for dropping out of the class for the commitee to grant you that W. They changed that from having all the way till the last month of the semester to the beginning of the semester to apply for a W right when I got into my undergrad. Kinda sucks......I really hate that F on my transcript.

 

[googlygrape]

My Withdraw deadline is this tuesday, so im still deciding.

thanks so much for all the advice everyone, although some may have been a little harsh, thats the reality of my bad grades i guess, haha. im leaning towards withdrawing, but ive been keeping close with my advisors, seeking advice and guidance. thanks again for the advice! will give an update when its time.

 

[Waitlisted2009]

.

 

[whateveryoulike]

what happens if you withdraw? you get bumped a whole year back in application cycle?

the biggest drawback is probably how it looks on your application. im sure you'd get questioned at interviews as to why you dropped a class as detrimental as ochem.

googlygrape: i wouldnt talk to your advisor about it unless they have a lot of experience dealing with preprof students. the only person you should be discussing that with is the ochem teacher and any prehealth advisory staff you have at your school. the ochem teacher can let you know your chances of getting a B or higher, and your advisor will let you know which is the greater evil; a potential grade of C, or a verified W.

 

[DCeater]

I might be wrong...but if you have never withdrawn before, a W would look better than a D or F. Also, if you don't withdraw and end up having to retake it, that grade is averaged into your GPA when you apply to dental school.


That being said, I retook a class I did poorly in and did well on that section of the DAT and ended up getting dental interviews. As long as you are involved, show an upward trend in your grades and rock the DAT you should be fine.