Totally confused by my app cycle

[differentiating]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I guess the question is then -- how much has admissions changed in the past four years to favor older students, and would those 3 kids who got into UCSF at 20 still have gotten in today?

I’d bet money that they would - they were all highly qualified students and have done quite well in med school. Having done interviews for my school, I haven’t noticed the age of those I’ve interviewed change much.

 

[efle]

lol, I don't think this is that big an issue. Even if I was 24 I wouldn't be going to bars since my religion prohibits drinking. Pretty sure schools don't really factor in whether it would be an issue inviting you to an event with drinks in their admission decisions.

You misunderstand. The people in my class who don't drink still go to the bars because thats where the socializing is at. They just dont get booze there. After exams, end of semester, holiday party etc are all rented out spaces in bars and you get carded to go in. And more than that, it's just where people go to hang out on weekends during preclinical.

And that's just the most tangible example. There's a real age barrier that exists socially that's harder to describe. Just think how weird it would be for a bunch of 23-24 year old graduated students to roll up at a freshman dorm to hang out with the 18-19 year olds.

Obviously you aren't worried about it or you wouldn't have applied to professional school so soon, but again you can imagine why it would raise some eyebrows for admissions. Part of ensuring student wellness as best as possible is avoiding red flags and risk factors

 

[efle]

I guess the question is then -- how much has admissions changed in the past four years to favor older students, and would those 3 kids who got into UCSF at 20 still have gotten in today?

EDIT: Looking at UCSFs incoming class data, it seems at least one 20 year old still made it in for the incoming class of 2018.

Specific schools can vary a lot on some demographics. Hell, compare what you guys are describing at UCSF vs Penn, where like 75% of the incoming class is nontrad. You're a youngun' at Penn just by going straight through from college, let alone rolling in as a teenager

 

[ciestar]

You misunderstand. The people in my class who don't drink still go to the bars because thats where the socializing is at. They just dont get booze there. After exams, end of semester, holiday party etc are all rented out spaces in bars and you get carded to go in. And more than that, it's just where people go to hang out on weekends during preclinical.

And that's just the most tangible example. There's a real age barrier that exists socially that's harder to describe. Just think how weird it would be for a bunch of 23-24 year old graduated students to roll up at a freshman dorm to hang out with the 18-19 year olds.

Obviously you aren't worried about it or you wouldn't have applied to professional school so soon, but again you can imagine why it would raise some eyebrows for admissions. Part of ensuring student wellness as best as possible is avoiding red flags and risk factors

Im a non-trad and will be 29 this year. It would feel weird to me, tbh. This isnt the norm and I am a bit older, but yes, a 23 year old hanging out in a freshman dorm would also be considered weird.

 

[dodolol21]

You misunderstand. The people in my class who don't drink still go to the bars because thats where the socializing is at. They just dont get booze there. After exams, end of semester, holiday party etc are all rented out spaces in bars and you get carded to go in. And more than that, it's just where people go to hang out on weekends during preclinical.

And that's just the most tangible example. There's a real age barrier that exists socially that's harder to describe. Just think how weird it would be for a bunch of 23-24 year old graduated students to roll up at a freshman dorm to hang out with the 18-19 year olds.

Obviously you aren't worried about it or you wouldn't have applied to professional school so soon, but again you can imagine why it would raise some eyebrows for admissions. Part of ensuring student wellness as best as possible is avoiding red flags and risk factors

I think it can depend on whatever the student body is like in various locations. Like @differentiating said, some students who can go to bars wouldn't go anyways, regardless of age. No bars =/= no socializing. I have a great group of friends and we don't ever plan to step foot in any bars, we're just not into it. Also, yeah it would seem there's a real social barrier in theory between people of those two age groups, but by the time students reach professional school -- I think its really just dependent on people. It's not like 50-year-old doctors don't have 55 and 60-year-old doctors in their immediate friend group. My personal group of best friends is comprised of 20-24. We rarely even think about age, despite some being graduated and some being at the start or middle of undergrad. I can definitely understand both viewpoints though

 

[Warmkittens]

Man, the difference you people are making over a year or 2 of age is hilarious. We're all adults, over 18, and I think if someone shows more maturity at 19 than someone at 21/22/whatever, then that should not hinder them on being accepted into medical school. I also would never even step foot in a bar no matter my age as I don't drink, and I'm sure many others are the same. Socializing can happen outside of bars and drinking you know, and I certainly have not felt socially isolated by never stepping in a bar or drinking with friends older than 21 that do drink. Also, look at other countries, where students 18 and fresh out of high school enter into medical school to become doctors. Let's stop the discrimination against young applicants please.

 

[differentiating]

I think it can depend on whatever the student body is like in various locations. Like @differentiating said, some students who can go to bars wouldn't go anyways, regardless of age. No bars =/= no socializing. I have a great group of friends and we don't ever plan to step foot in any bars, we're just not into it. Also, yeah it would seem there's a real social barrier in theory between people of those two age groups, but by the time students reach professional school -- I think its really just dependent on people. It's not like 50-year-old doctors don't have 55 and 60-year-old doctors in their immediate friend group. My personal group of best friends is comprised of 20-24. We rarely even think about age, despite some being graduated and some being at the start or middle of undergrad. I can definitely understand both viewpoints though

My school has also had less than 5 events at bars in total - usually they’re on campus (no carding) or at an eatery. Bars aren’t really great places to hang out, and you can get alcohol at other venues. Again, this may vary by school.

And yeah, my med school friends include people 2-5 years older than I am. I’m definitely the baby of my friend group, and it has never been an issue.

 

[ciestar]

Wow, i never once said you need alcohol to socialize and whatnot. I was talking about school sponsored events, including our formal, fall bash (we do this at a museum), and spring fling. Drinking doesn’t make you a bad person either. My school has a larger party atmosphere, especially my class. I have never actually been to a post-exam social. I am married and choose to spend my time elsewhere.

I remember being 19. I was barely a freshman in college. Im not being discriminatory. I also have 19 year old nieces and I couldn’t imagine hanging out with them and their friends. I am also almost 10 years older.

 

[LizzyM]

I want to make one observation about age, given that I am, no lie, old enough to be your grandmother (if you are under 21).
As you get older, your chronological age will matter less than the place where you are in your life. You'll find that you have more in common with other M1/M2 students than you do with people who graduated from HS at the same time you did but who are working moms with 2 kids or out of college and working a 9-5 job. I noticed that once my own kids were born, I could relate more to cousins who had kids almost the same age, even if they were much younger than I am, than I did with inlaws and siblings my own age who had kids who were much older or who didn't have kids at all. When my kids started school, I became friends with other kids' parents and there was at least a 20 year age range between youngest and oldest parents of kids in the same grade... but our age didn't matter, where we were in our life trajectory mattered.

You'll find this in med school and residency which is a very small community of people who are going through the same difficult, challenging experience.

 

[deleted962973]

Man, the difference you people are making over a year or 2 of age is hilarious. We're all adults, over 18, and I think if someone shows more maturity at 19 than someone at 21/22/whatever, then that should not hinder them on being accepted into medical school. I also would never even step foot in a bar no matter my age as I don't drink, and I'm sure many others are the same. Socializing can happen outside of bars and drinking you know, and I certainly have not felt socially isolated by never stepping in a bar or drinking with friends older than 21 that do drink. Also, look at other countries, where students 18 and fresh out of high school enter into medical school to become doctors. Let's stop the discrimination against young applicants please.

Yup, my study abroad group last summer had people from 19-22 years old. I never had any issues interacting with people on either end of that cohort. If someone’s mature, they’re mature, and common experiences bring people together.

 

[efle]

Wow, I cannot imagine going through college and medical school without ever stepping into a bar. That's nuts. I understand not drinking, plenty of people do that. But to be so uncomfortable with the mere presence of alcohol that you skip all sorts of stuff like college senior week bar crawling, or end-of-unit parties in med school, just because it's a rented space at a bar? That's extreme. What about house parties? Is it the bar itself thats the issue or just the idea of drunk people thats being avoided?

Maybe I'm a stereotyping jerk. But if I get a med school app from someone the typical age of a college freshman, and then also find out they intend to never hang out with people who are drinking...I feel like that would validate my concerns more than reassure me.

 

[deleted962973]

Wow, I cannot imagine going through college and medical school without ever stepping into a bar. That's nuts. I understand not drinking, plenty of people do that. But to be so uncomfortable with the mere presence of alcohol that you skip all sorts of stuff like college senior week bar crawling, or end-of-unit parties in med school, just because it's a rented space at a bar? That's extreme. What about house parties? Is it the bar itself thats the issue or just the idea of drunk people thats being avoided?

Maybe I'm a stereotyping jerk. But if I get a med school app from someone the typical age of a college freshman, and then also find out they intend to never hang out with people who are drinking...I feel like that would validate my concerns more than reassure me.

This is some major projection on your part. Some people don’t care for alcohol or for being around people who drink (religious, personal, health, or otherwise). It’s literally not an issue because they just won’t partake in those events.

 

[efle]

This is some major projection on your part. Some people don’t care for alcohol or for being around people who drink (religious, personal, health, or otherwise). It’s literally not an issue because they just won’t partake in those events.

I dunno I feel like it's an objective fact that 95% of my classmates turned up to things with booze like end of semester parties

Are we disagreeing about how rare it is to never be around alcohol in your 20s? Or are we agreeing it's a teeny tiny fraction of people but you're saying that 5% is content keeping each other company?

 

[LizzyM]

This is some major projection on your part. Some people don’t care for alcohol or for being around people who drink (religious, personal, health, or otherwise). It’s literally not an issue because they just won’t partake in those events.

Apply to Loma Linda. Great fit. Also likely to find like-minded peeps at the med school in Utah. Those two might account for 5% of the MD students in America.

Aside from some people who are recovering from problems with alcohol, I have a hard time getting my mind around the idea that there are people in America who "just won't partake in those events" where there will be people who are consuming alcohol. Do you avoid restaurants that serve alcohol? Would you attend a ceremony or celebration where guests were offered a glass of wine? Would you attend an athletic event where beer is sold to the spectators? Would you fly on an airplane or travel in a train where some passengers would be consuming alcohol? Is this a common thing? Maybe it is my upbringing, but this is just very unfamililar territory to me. Educate me.

 

[deleted962973]

Apply to Loma Linda. Great fit. Also likely to find like-minded peeps at the med school in Utah. Those two might account for 5% of the MD students in America.

Aside from some people who are recovering from problems with alcohol, I have a hard time getting my mind around the idea that there are people in America who "just won't partake in those events" where there will be people who are consuming alcohol. Do you avoid restaurants that serve alcohol? Would you attend a ceremony or celebration where guests were offered a glass of wine? Would you attend an athletic event where beer is sold to the spectators? Would you fly on an airplane or travel in a train where some passengers would be consuming alcohol? Is this a common thing? Maybe it is my upbringing, but this is just very unfamililar territory to me. Educate me.

Practicing Muslims aren’t allowed to drink alcohol. And it’s just a fact that if you’re the only sober person at a party, it’s usually not very fun. If it’s a setting like a restaurant where I can still eat good food and not feel isolated from everyone else, I’m more than happy to join in even if other people are taking their dinner with a glass of wine. But it gets exhausting to be at a bar and constantly get asked by everyone why you’re not having anything- you feel like you’re just bringing the mood down. It’s never isolated me from my friends who drink because I hang out with them in dozens of other settings. I imagine for the kids entering med school at 20, it’ll be much the same. Going on sightseeing trips, diners, movies, shows, etc with your class are fine. Bar hopping or a post exam bender? They’ll just skip it, as would I.

The insinuation that Loma Linda is the only med school where a teetotal student would fit in is a bit much.

 

[LizzyM]

Practicing Muslims aren’t allowed to drink alcohol. And it’s just a fact that if you’re the only sober person at a party, it’s usually not very fun. If it’s a setting like a restaurant where I can still eat good food and not feel isolated from everyone else, I’m more than happy to join in even if other people are taking their dinner with a glass of wine. But it gets exhausting to be at a bar and constantly get asked by everyone why you’re not having anything- you feel like you’re just bringing the mood down. It’s never isolated me from my friends who drink because I hang out with them in dozens of other settings. I imagine for the kids entering med school at 20, it’ll be much the same. Going on sightseeing trips, diners, movies, shows, etc with your class are fine. Bar hopping or a post exam bender? They’ll just skip it, as would I.

The insinuation that Loma Linda is the only med school where a teetotal student would fit in is a bit much.

I guess I've been to parties where people who dont' drink (like my husband) have fun and most (if not all) of the people who do drink are not drunk.

As a practicing Muslim, if you were at an event where alcohol was offered (or sold), could you take a glass of juice or a carbonated soft drink (aka soda, pop, Coke)?

Not saying that Loma LInda is the only school for someone who does not drink but I was getting a vibe that being in the presence of people who are drinking was unacceptable in any circumstance and that might be very difficult in some locations where it is common hospitality to offer wine or beer with a meal or get-together.

 

[dodolol21]

Practicing Muslims aren’t allowed to drink alcohol. And it’s just a fact that if you’re the only sober person at a party, it’s usually not very fun. If it’s a setting like a restaurant where I can still eat good food and not feel isolated from everyone else, I’m more than happy to join in even if other people are taking their dinner with a glass of wine. But it gets exhausting to be at a bar and constantly get asked by everyone why you’re not having anything- you feel like you’re just bringing the mood down. It’s never isolated me from my friends who drink because I hang out with them in dozens of other settings. I imagine for the kids entering med school at 20, it’ll be much the same. Going on sightseeing trips, diners, movies, shows, etc with your class are fine. Bar hopping or a post exam bender? They’ll just skip it, as would I.

The insinuation that Loma Linda is the only med school where a teetotal student would fit in is a bit much.

@LizzyM @efle This basically sums it up. Like @StanleyYelnats explains, there is a big difference between an event being at a bar, vs a restaurant. In general, I and most of my friend's group has never set foot in a bar, where the primary purpose is to socialize while consuming alcohol. For example, in terms of both pre/post interview socials for medical school AND residency, myself and friends would attend if it was at a restaurant, but skip if it's at a bar.

The example you gave of an airplane/wedding/ceremony. In those situations, drinking is not really one of the primary activities, and it's 100% possible to engage in the event without drinking anything. From the perspective of practicing Muslim's 90% of events we go to in terms of dinners, ceremonies, and weddings, alcohol is not on the menu whatsoever. For the other 10%, we'll be happy attendees and won't mind if anyone else drinks we just won't do it ourselves. As weird as it may seem to you guys to rarely encounter alcohol, its 100% normal to people like us.

I guess I've been to parties where people who dont' drink (like my husband) have fun and most (if not all) of the people who do drink are not drunk.

As a practicing Muslim, if you were at an event where alcohol was offered (or sold), could you take a glass of juice or a carbonated soft drink (aka soda, pop, Coke)?

Not saying that Loma LInda is the only school for someone who does not drink but I was getting a vibe that being in the presence of people who are drinking was unacceptable in any circumstance and that might be very difficult in some locations where it is common hospitality to offer wine or beer with a meal or get-together.

Muslims, like other religious people, vary in their beliefs. Some will find it fine to drink/smoke, some will be okay with paying for others, beer, while some of us won't pay for it or even carry it. Generally though, we're A-okay taking the juice/soda and will happily pay for the rest of your meal just not the alcohol portion

 

[efle]

I feel like I need to clarify again that I do have good friends here who don't drink.

They still come to kick back at people's houses, bars on weekends, and school events and just have a coke without rum in it, or a lemonade without vodka in it, etc. And it's not like we're a bunch of teenagers doing kegstands until we puke. It's mid 20s professional students having a few beers at most and chatting.

Is what I'm describing similar to what you mean? Or is it a hard rule about not being around others who are drinking, so that if a bunch of classmates were spending an evening on a rooftop with some music and beer/wine, you'd stay home?

 

[dodolol21]

I feel like I need to clarify again that I do have good friends here who don't drink.

They still come to kick back at people's houses, bars on weekends, and school events and just have a coke without rum in it, or a lemonade without vodka in it, etc. And it's not like we're a bunch of teenagers doing kegstands until we puke. It's mid 20s professional students having a few beers at most and chatting.

Is what I'm describing similar to what you mean? Or is it a hard rule about not being around others who are drinking, so that if a bunch of classmates were spending an evening on a rooftop with some music and beer/wine, you'd stay home?

No hard rules -- we're not extremists lol

 

[efle]

I think I'm getting it now, there was something lost in translation. "Going out" to a "bar" in college was a totally different thing that really meant pregaming half a dozen shots and going to a club with music so loud you can't hear each other. That's not what I mean about socializing with booze in med school. It's much more tame, it's more like a group sitting around a table at a bar having a couple drinks with moderate volume alt rock in the background. It sounds like you guys wouldn't object to the latter, it's the former that would suck if you were sober.

 

[dodolol21]

I guess the final point we were trying to get across was don't reject us from medical school or residency cuz we don't drink lol, we're still cool/fun normal people 🙂

 

[deleted962973]

@LizzyM @efle This basically sums it up. Like @StanleyYelnats explains, there is a big difference between an event being at a bar, vs a restaurant. In general, I and most of my friend's group has never set foot in a bar, where the primary purpose is to socialize while consuming alcohol. For example, in terms of both pre/post interview socials for medical school AND residency, myself and friends would attend if it was at a restaurant, but skip if it's at a bar.

The example you gave of an airplane/wedding/ceremony. In those situations, drinking is not really one of the primary activities, and it's 100% possible to engage in the event without drinking anything. From the perspective of practicing Muslim's 90% of events we go to in terms of dinners, ceremonies, and weddings, alcohol is not on the menu whatsoever. For the other 10%, we'll be happy attendees and won't mind if anyone else drinks we just won't do it ourselves. As weird as it may seem to you guys to rarely encounter alcohol, its 100% normal to people like us.



Muslims, like other religious people, vary in their beliefs. Some will find it fine to drink/smoke, some will be okay with paying for others, beer, while some of us won't pay for it or even carry it. Generally though, we're A-okay taking the juice/soda and will happily pay for the rest of your meal just not the alcohol portion

Right, and it’s not just a religious thing. A friend from college who was a dedicated D1 athlete didn’t like going out because he knew he’d be tempted to drink, and drinking impacted his performance (no, not that kind of performance). So for anyone who for whatever reason doesn’t want to drink or doesn’t want to be tempted into drinking, social activities centered around alcohol may make them uncomfortable. If it’s something like a wedding or a dinner where there are other things to do besides drinking, then this doesn’t apply.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

The most common reason I see is a frightening personal statement.

Yes, please share with us what you’ve found to be “frightening” personal statements?
Such a curious word to us in regards to PS’s. Horrible grammar? Off-putting stories? Risky behaviors?

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, please share with us what you’ve found to be “frightening” personal statements?
Such a curious word to us in regards to PS’s. Horrible grammar? Off-putting stories? Risky behaviors?

An external locus on control is frightening. Perfectionism is frightening. Naivette is frightening.

So you get someone who writes with pride about their first birthday when they first reached for the stethoscope and how pleased this made the parents and grandparents, who is most proud of their straight As from first grade until now, and who believes that doctors hold the key to eliminating all pain and sorrow in the world if only people would listen and do as they're told and how much they enjoy hearing the gratitude of people whom they've helped and know that this will be an everyday thing when they are a doctor.

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

I guess the final point we were trying to get across was don't reject us from medical school or residency cuz we don't drink lol, we're still cool/fun normal people 🙂

I did not drink at all in medical school because most of my friends were Muslim or non-trad (hard to drink if you have 2 young kids at home you need to care for). I didn't drink at some pre-interview for residency socials either because I would feel awful on the day of the interview and literally no one cared. I don't understand why people are giving you a hard time about not drinking in medical school. It's not an issue.

 

[deleted804295]

OP since you're accepted at this point could you ask your letter writers for feedback on what they wrote?

Honestly scares me that an app as great as yours was passed along at many schools.

 

[deleted804295]

I guess I've been to parties where people who dont' drink (like my husband) have fun and most (if not all) of the people who do drink are not drunk.

As a practicing Muslim, if you were at an event where alcohol was offered (or sold), could you take a glass of juice or a carbonated soft drink (aka soda, pop, Coke)?

Not saying that Loma LInda is the only school for someone who does not drink but I was getting a vibe that being in the presence of people who are drinking was unacceptable in any circumstance and that might be very difficult in some locations where it is common hospitality to offer wine or beer with a meal or get-together.

I'm going to assume you drink but there is nothing fun about being in a social setting where everyone is drinking and you're not.

It's fine at things that are latent functions of socialization ie. Restaurants, ball games, etc. But at parties / hang outs when everyone is drinking and one person isn't it's very lame.

This is just my experience with kids my age. With older people they tend not to get buzzed/drunk at parties, and I've been perfectly fine hanging out with older folk that are drinking.

Edit: Also for the umpteenth time could somebody explain to me the allure of drinking? Especially when not getting drunk? Is it just the slight buzz? Trying to figure out if I should try a drink on my 21st birthday or pass it up.

 

[stickgirl390]

Edit: Also for the umpteenth time could somebody explain to me the allure of drinking? Especially when not getting drunk? Is it just the slight buzz? Trying to figure out if I should try a drink on my 21st birthday or pass it up.

A lot of people like the taste of wine/beer/liquor. I’m a sucker for Roscato red wine, it tastes like juice.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

I'm going to assume you drink but there is nothing fun about being in a social setting where everyone is drinking and you're not.

It's fine at things that are latent functions of socialization ie. Restaurants, ball games, etc. But at parties / hang outs when everyone is drinking and one person isn't it's very lame.

This is just my experience with kids my age. With older people they tend not to get buzzed/drunk at parties, and I've been perfectly fine hanging out with older folk that are drinking.

Edit: Also for the umpteenth time could somebody explain to me the allure of drinking? Especially when not getting drunk? Is it just the slight buzz? Trying to figure out if I should try a drink on my 21st birthday or pass it up.

You've made it to 21 without having any alcohol? Drinking 1 or 2 drinks makes you more loose, relaxed, happy, and its easier to "go with the flow" at social events. For me, after 3 drinks I start to lose the relaxation benefits and wanna be active and actually party. Probably 4 drinks I'm "drunk". After 5-7, which is about my comfort limit (180 pound male), I start feeling more tired and slurred/sluggish. That's when it's time to go home, have some gatorade and go to bed.

 

[deleted804295]

You've made it to 21 without having any alcohol? Drinking 1 or 2 drinks makes you more loose, relaxed, happy, and its easier to "go with the flow" at social events. For me, after 3 drinks I start to lose the relaxation benefits and wanna be active and actually party. Probably 4 drinks I'm "drunk". After 5-7, which is about my comfort limit (180 pound male), I start feeling more tired and slurred/sluggish. That's when it's time to go home, have some gatorade and go to bed.

Oh okay. Yeah the effects you describe are kinda why I've never felt the penchant to drink alcohol. It sounds like a legalized drug. Which knowing myself well enough might not be the wisest of habits to pick up.

If anything, the taste would be anything that would lure me in as @stickgirl390 described with dessert wine.

 

[ciestar]

A lot of people like the taste of wine/beer/liquor. I’m a sucker for Roscato red wine, it tastes like juice.

I love red wine lol

 

[puahate]

Edit: Also for the umpteenth time could somebody explain to me the allure of drinking? Especially when not getting drunk? Is it just the slight buzz? Trying to figure out if I should try a drink on my 21st birthday or pass it up.

Lowers inhibition. If you get into that buzz zone everyone is so much easier to talk to. Barriers aren't up.

 

[ciestar]

Lowers inhibition. If you get into that buzz zone everyone is so much easier to talk to. Barriers aren't up.

Im much less uptight and nervous. I actually relax which is nice.

 

[Lawpy]

>Sees this thread and thinks discussion is about OP's app cycle

>Comes across many posts talking about alcohol, bars and socializing in med school 😕

 

[puahate]

Yeah that's why i only drink socially. I'm a very utilitarian person and for me alcohol is great tool to relax in social settings.

Im much less uptight and nervous. I actually relax which is nice.

 

[ciestar]

>Sees this thread and thinks discussion is about OP's app cycle

>Comes across many posts talking about alcohol, bars and socializing in med school 😕

View attachment 260227

Im legit the reason for this. I apologize.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Oh okay. Yeah the effects you describe are kinda why I've never felt the penchant to drink alcohol. It sounds like a legalized drug. Which knowing myself well enough might not be the wisest of habits to pick up.

If anything, the taste would be anything that would lure me in as @stickgirl390 described with dessert wine.

It's 100 percent a legal drug. I would never recommend it to someone with addictive tendencies. Although I have to say, for most people you can try it once and not get addicted, versus other drugs. I can't really feel the affects of alcohol until my 2nd drink, but it depends on the person too. In terms of taste, some people love all alcohol, some people hate all of it. From beer to wine to cocktails to liquor, there's generally something to enjoy.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

In general, ADCOMs are going to shy away from 19yo students. Even brilliant ones. There is no rush to apply to medical school. There are many things a student who is graduating from college can and should do rather than apply right away to medical school. The occasional student we have accepted who was 20yo or younger when they started medical school was more likely to struggle with basic interpersonal communication and professionalism skills once on the wards than students of average age or older. The very young students were much less likely to have had much real world experience prior to starting medical school - as they more likely spent their lives exclusively in school, summer school, and labs.

 

[dodolol21]

The occasional student we have accepted who was 20yo or younger when they started medical school was more likely to struggle with basic interpersonal communication and professionalism skills once on the wards than students of average age or older. The very young students were much less likely to have had much real-world experience prior to starting medical school - as they more likely spent their lives exclusively in school, summer school, and labs.

Is there any data to support this? would be really interested to see how much is anecdotal/stereotyping vs actually happening, since schools like UCSF are still matriculating younger folks. Baylor, Pitt and a few other top schools also have BS/MDs so they don't seem to shy away from accepting 20-21 year olds

 

[dodolol21]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312000483_Comparing_the_Experience_of_Mature-Aged_and_Traditional_Medical_Students_in_the_Clinical_Setting_A_Qualitative_Approach

Thanks for the link, this is an interesting paper, but here are some of my thoughts:

• the sample size is quite small n = 9, 5 over 30 and 4 under 30, and this is only one school
• the two groups are traditional (MS3s under 30) and mature (MS3s over 30). Basically meaning those who entered around <28 and >28, so it doesn't really help our discussion in comparing early graduates (19-20) vs traditional (21-22) vs 1-3 gap years (23-25).
• From the interviews, it appears that "mature" students have a little bit of an edge, which is what would be expected. However, a study that follows these students through residency might be more insightful. We could see whether this edge remains or whether the traditional students eventually "catch up" in their social/personal skills.

 

[differentiating]

My personal observation is the younger students tend to have less real world experience to connect with patients

My personal experience was a little different - myself and my traditional friends had no issues connecting with patients (in fact, that tended to be our strengths), but on average older students were more likely to get honors due to having prior work experience and understanding that structure better. In my experience, it took about half of third year for me to really understand it, and one sub-I to get MS4 - but then again, my school is infamous for throwing students in the deep end without preparation and hoping we figure it out. I don't know enough about the clinical experiences of our younger students to make any comments there, however.

Obviously, these are all anecdotes, and everyone's experience will be different.