Tough being Asian?

[mikejs]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I have been told that it is extremely difficult to get into medical school especially if you are not a URM. Assuming that Asians are not underrepresented since most Asian parents force, I mean try to make their kids become doctors I would probably have a tough time competing for spots.

Well, I am about to reject a job offer to go to one of the Post-bac programs in NYC. It kind of worries me that I might end up not getting accepted anywhere but I will shoot for it anyway. I hope my friend was just exaggerating when he said his cousin at Harvard with good grades only got into 1 medical school.

 

[Jamaican MD]

I have been told that it is extremely difficult to get into medical school especially if you are not a URM. Assuming that Asians are not underrepresented since most Asian parents force, I mean try to make their kids become doctors I would probably have a tough time competing for spots.

Well, I am about to reject a job offer to go to one of the Post-bac programs in NYC. It kind of worries me that I might end up not getting accepted anywhere but I will shoot for it anyway. I hope my friend was just exaggerating when he said his cousin at Harvard with good grades only got into 1 medical school.

How is it easy to get into medical school as a URM when the percentage of URM applicants accepted is less than 10%??? 🙄

The fact that you're asian should not affct your admissions prospects if your grades, MCAT, extracurricular activities, clinical experience, personality are on par with what the school is looking for. If Asian parents are forcing their kids to become doctors, then perhaps Fate steps in at the right time and weeds out the ones who aren't going into medicine for the right reasons. Of course, every applicant is unique, and there are disadvantaged asians out there.

I think your friend has the wrong mentality when he's upset for ONLY getting into ONE measly school! I mean, really. An acceptance is better than none, right??

 

[jxu66]

Mikejs:

Your statement is a little overgeneralized. There are asian families who push their kids to go to Harvard, go to best medical school (and probably pay for their education too). Then they are Asian families who couldn't put enough food on the table and care less about Medical school (and pay all his/her college expenses). It really depends on background.

Asians are not underrepresented. But that's not always bad thing. Give you best shot. That's all we can hope for.

 

[Persistence101]

I hope my friend was just exaggerating when he said his cousin at Harvard with good grades only got into 1 medical school.

Maybe your friend's cousin was lacking in ECs or social skills. Getting into medical school is not solely dependent on grades or undergraduate institution, it's the whole package.

I agree with the above posters. Not all Asian students were forced to go into medicine. The ones who were forced should and will be weeded out because they will truly be unhappy. Why sacrifice years of your life if you don't have a passion for it?

 

[mikejs]

Well, I?m not discouraged by his remarks but it will be very tough for us Post-bac?s. I?m sure we are all here because we realized our calling too late. I am just starting out and will probably face a lot of pessimistic comments but will just have to endure them all. At least it?s something I?m positive I want to do.

Thanks for all your encouraging replies. I wish us all luck. 🙂

 

[ItsNotATumor]

URM status doesn't necessarily give on a leg up on the admissions process, my school has less than 10% of the class falling under that category. Additionally, being Asian doesn't really help or hinder your chances... you could've either been from a really well-off family and faced no real hardships in life or had to pull double shifts at the family business every night to help put food on the table. In the end your entire application makes the difference, everything from your scores and grades to your reasons for becoming a physician.

 

[speakmemory]

If you are under the assumption that most asian kids are forced by their parents to pursue medicine and therefore, this makes it harder for you to stand out, then shouldn't this give you more of an incentive to try and excel and make yourself as unique as possible? I am also contemplating a postbac and I dont think thats necessarily a bad thing as you suggested later in one of your replies. People who want to pursue medicine (regardless of what stage of life theyre in) should do so if they have the mental physical and emotional capacity to do so. There is no rule that says that because you pursued a postbac as opposed to applying directly as an undergrad this makes you any less of a doctor. In fact I sometimes find it refreshing when I find out that a lot of my friends who are in med school spent years working , volunteering, or pursuing other degrees before finally making the decision to apply to med school. it creates more diversity in the field as well.

oh and always, good luck!

 

[syperidot]

I think if you have the grades, the EC's, and show the med schools how committed you are to becoming a doctor, then u deserve to get in. I mean so what if URMs get help...it makes you have to work harder, which is a very good thing because in the long run it makes you a stronger person. I didn't get in the first time and I'm applying right now and I'm happy that I didn't go to med school immediately because in the past year I've gained and learned so much that I wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[NRAI2001]

I don't know why asian kids are always complaining about this so much, if it bothers u so much maybe u should have taken the job.

 

[G-Dubya]

bump

 

[benelswick]

Its worth considering your own ethnic background in this game in my opinion. Because its is on the signposts everywhere that the amission committees seek to choose a diverse medical class. This could mean different things to different people. If I were asian to me it would mean that I would broaden my application beyond my gpa/mcat because it is true that asian kids perform at high levels in school and after talking to many alot tend to be under significant pressure from the expectations of their families. Maybe consider getting a job in healthcare, or pursuing some unique interest that you have to separate yourself from the pack. If you're from Oklahoma this discussion may preclude you becuase you might just know a couple of asian people period, but in california its way different.--Ben.

 

[Blake]

So, there are a lot of Asians in medical school, and yet it's hard to enter medical school when you're an Asian ? I thought that never really made sense, but eh, that's just me 🙄

 

[Attentive]

So, there are a lot of Asians in medical school, and yet it's hard to enter medical school when you're an Asian ? I thought that never really made sense, but eh, that's just me 🙄

Heh. First time post.

I'm guessing the original poster saw something that I also saw and found interesting, the average MCAT and GPA of accepted applicants, broken down by ethnicity.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2003/mcatgparaceeth.htm

If you're talking about a straight numbers comparisons, the "average" stats are higher for matriculated students of non URMs than they are for matriculated URMs.

Since diversity is an important issue that schools address in the admissions process, it would seem that the numbers that an Asian-American applicant would have to shoot for, would be higher than that of an URM applicant.

There are numerous other factors also considered in the application process that aren't addressed by this discussion, but based on the numbers game alone, I'd have to agree that it is "harder" for Asians.

I'm actually a lot more interested in the various factors of disadvantaged status than race, but I guess they haven't started collecting that manner of data yet.

 

[neurodoc]

I have been told that it is extremely difficult to get into medical school especially if you are not a URM. Assuming that Asians are not underrepresented since most Asian parents force, I mean try to make their kids become doctors I would probably have a tough time competing for spots.

This concern with the ethnic background of students, especially so-called URMs and their need for "Affirmative Action," has led to a lot of unecessary rancor and injustice. The "Asian problem" is a classic illustration.

Over 30 years ago Ronald reagan, as Governor of California, was confronted by someone at a press conference who was worried that UC Berkeley would be flooded with Asian students if the UC Regents relied only on grades and test scores. Reagan, to his credit, responded that he didn't care if the whole student body became Asian, if they were in fact the most qualified students.

Even more than Caucasian students, I think that Asian students have suffered from their being perceived as a "model minority" and somehow a uniformly privileged minority. Nothing could be further from the truth. The ethnic group, "Asian," includes Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, Indonesians, Malaysians, and many other ethnic groups besides Mainland Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans, japanese, etc. Many of these students come form families who are decidedly not economically well off. Many are simply "piss poor" folk.

I have no beef with Affirmative Action(AA), but I think it should really be "color blind" and designed to help the econonomically disadvantaged student. Some of these students are "white" and don't qualify for AA assistance. Many are also "Asian" and they similarly don't qualify.

 

[911Med]

Hey buddy...I've got 7 words for you:

Try being a middle class white guy.

 

[lowbudget]

Nope, it's not tough being Asian, at least not for me. Embrace your heritage, prove to them that you'll be a good doc, and most of all, get your head out of the I'm-an-underdog mentality and the chip off your shoulders. Nobody likes bitter whiners, especially fellow docs. Once you're comfortable with who you are and all the positive things you have to contribute, you'll begin to move yourself out of the underdog/the-world-is-against-me mentality.

Your friend's cousin was probably a big dork. Or so stuck up that he would only go to certain schools.

 

[HussainGQ]

Ain't it something??
All our lives we were told that we are minorities and not a part of the "mainstream crowd." now, when this whole 'minority" thing might be good for something.................. guess what............ YOUR NOT A MINORITY ANYMORE! Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?????

 

[sidewalkman]

Even more than Caucasian students, I think that Asian students have suffered from their being perceived as a "model minority" and somehow a uniformly privileged minority. Nothing could be further from the truth. The ethnic group, "Asian," includes Vietnamese, Cambodians, Laotians, Indonesians, Malaysians, and many other ethnic groups besides Mainland Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans, japanese, etc. Many of these students come form families who are decidedly not economically well off. Many are simply "piss poor" folk.

Great point by neurodoc. 👍

 

[hotlikebutter]

this is a touchy subject. but yes, i think being asian makes it harder for you to get into med schools. a simple look at the accepted students broken down by GPA and MCAT versus race tells the story. a recent book i read indicates that asians have the highest average GPA and MCAT scores than all other accepted students. Caucasians, werent that different than the average for asians, but URM were significantly lower than both these groups. what this means, is that it is more competitive for caucasians and asians to gain acceptance into medical schools. this in my mind however, does not reflect how good a doctor one will be after getting in. these are just the stats.

 

[Darko]

On a side note, why are Indians usually lumped in with Asians whenever they ask for your race? Aren't they Caucasoid -- thus just as White as Arabs and moreso than Slavs?

 

[benelswick]

this is a touchy subject. but yes, i think being asian makes it harder for you to get into med schools. a simple look at the accepted students broken down by GPA and MCAT versus race tells the story. a recent book i read indicates that asians have the highest average GPA and MCAT scores than all other accepted students. Caucasians, werent that different than the average for asians, but URM were significantly lower than both these groups. what this means, is that it is more competitive for caucasians and asians to gain acceptance into medical schools. this in my mind however, does not reflect how good a doctor one will be after getting in. these are just the stats.

I agree with this analysis. And despite being caucasian, I beleive that diversity is essential to both the goal and the process of education and as such statisitics should only tell a part of the story.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Relativity is a fact of life. If you apply to college from High school X, colleges want to see class rank: comparing you to your own peer group. When you apply to Med school, they look at your GPA: comparing you to your own peer group, once again. Race is just another category they can make relative. When you apply for residency, once again, relativity comes up: AOA status, grades, rec letters, blah blah blah. It's a fact of life in academia. Learn to live with it and excel to the standards of your peers, or you can find another job. No one can "force" you into this job--unless you are a ***** and get pushed around by others.

 

[novacek88]

Yes, it's tough being Asian and I'm not even Asian. However, I have heard from many caucasian students like myself how the University of Arizona school of medicine likes to keep their ethnic mix balances. Basically, they only admit a certain number Asians in their class. So if you are an average applicant and you are Asian, you are essentially screwed. I know at AZCOM, we are actually trying to recruit Asians because our typical applicant profile is Caucasian. Many of classes don't have even one African American or Hispanic student.

Also, the truth is people are just more comfortable being around their own race. It doesn't mean someone is racist but someone just instinctively feels comfortable around someone who shares his or her background. I will admit that when I went to my first Asian party, I was one of three white guys. I felt strange at first and then I got used to it. But the reality is that your medical school professors and administration are all white for the most part. If they were suddenly to have a class that was 75% Asian, they would feel weird. That's the bottom line.

 

[benelswick]

Yes, it's tough being Asian and I'm not even Asian. However, I have heard from many caucasian students like myself how the University of Arizona school of medicine likes to keep their ethnic mix balances. Basically, they only admit a certain number Asians in their class. So if you are an average applicant and you are Asian, you are essentially screwed. I know at AZCOM, we are actually trying to recruit Asians because our typical applicant profile is Caucasian. Many of classes don't have even one African American or Hispanic student.

Also, the truth is people are just more comfortable being around their own race. It doesn't mean someone is racist but someone just instinctively feels comfortable around someone who shares his or her background. I will admit that when I went to my first Asian party, I was one of three white guys. I felt strange at first and then I got used to it. But the reality is that your medical school professors and administration are all white for the most part. If they were suddenly to have a class that was 75% Asian, they would feel weird. That's the bottom line.

No offense but I can now cross off AZCOM of my list of schools to apply to. Not that they will miss me, but I could never go to school in an environment like that.

 

[novacek88]

No offense but I can now cross off AZCOM of my list of schools to apply to. Not that they will miss me, but I could never go to school in an environment like that.

I don't blame you. This school is pretty white. But I want you to know that it's not the school's fault. Minorities just don't apply here.

 

[Sainttpk]

On a side note, why are Indians usually lumped in with Asians whenever they ask for your race? Aren't they Caucasoid -- thus just as White as Arabs and moreso than Slavs?

mmm this is a complicated question.

1) the reason Indians are not lumped in with Caucasoids is because the Indian community in the United States lobbied to get their ethnic designation changed from Caucasian to Asian American. Indians, Pakistanis, north africans and other near eastern groups may be classified as caucasian but are defintly not treated as WHITE "europeans". I think most Anglo Saxons would agree that they do not share the same history as the previous groups.

2) The term caucasoid is merely a legal term, for one thing all hispanics at one point were designated as caucasoid in order for them to serve in ww2. In case you didn't know, Hispanics were not put in seperate units during ww2 like blacks and japaneese.

3) The middleastern population in this country is very small, there was never a need to classify them as a seperate ethnic group

4) Read Singh v. That? Its a superme court case dating back to the 19th cenutry in which a Pakistani? or Indian? guy claimed that he should be designated as white. The court ruled that even though he was caucasian, he was defintly not considered white by the dominant culture

5) white and caucasian are two seperate things. Remeber that. Ethiopians are caucasian yet they are not white. Does that make sense?

6) Race is a social concept. What is white today, may not be considered white tommorow, spend some time in Brazil and you will find this out quick. Remeber our own history, for a very brief short time Asians were considered white in the United States before they came in very large significant numbers. Mexicans were classifed as white as well in order for the United States military to take advantage of their numbers for military service.

In conclusion: This issue is much more complicated then legal classifications of people. Even though the United States Census says that North Africans an people of Middle Eastern decent can check white, does that mean they are treated as such by the dominant white culture? I dont think so, the events after 9-11 should answer your questions regarding this topic.

 

[TTSD]

Don't be silly. Of course it's not tough being Asian, we have the best looking girls who are into the kinkiest ****. Sure, it's a little harder getting into schools, but it balances out =)

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Don't be silly. Of course it's not tough being Asian, we have the best looking girls who are into the kinkiest ****. Sure, it's a little harder getting into schools, but it balances out =)

TTSD's words of wisdom strike again!

 

[MD Rapper]

mmm this is a complicated question.

1) the reason Indians are not lumped in with Caucasoids is because the Indian community in the United States lobbied to get their ethnic designation changed from Caucasian to Asian American. Indians, Pakistanis, north africans and other near eastern groups may be classified as caucasian but are defintly not treated as WHITE "europeans". I think most Anglo Saxons would agree that they do not share the same history as the previous groups.

2) The term caucasoid is merely a legal term, for one thing all hispanics at one point were designated as caucasoid in order for them to serve in ww2. In case you didn't know, Hispanics were not put in seperate units during ww2 like blacks and japaneese.

3) The middleastern population in this country is very small, there was never a need to classify them as a seperate ethnic group

4) Read Singh v. That? Its a superme court case dating back to the 19th cenutry in which a Pakistani? or Indian? guy claimed that he should be designated as white. The court ruled that even though he was caucasian, he was defintly not considered white by the dominant culture

5) white and caucasian are two seperate things. Remeber that. Ethiopians are caucasian yet they are not white. Does that make sense?

6) Race is a social concept. What is white today, may not be considered white tommorow, spend some time in Brazil and you will find this out quick. Remeber our own history, for a very brief short time Asians were considered white in the United States before they came in very large significant numbers. Mexicans were classifed as white as well in order for the United States military to take advantage of their numbers for military service.

In conclusion: This issue is much more complicated then legal classifications of people. Even though the United States Census says that North Africans an people of Middle Eastern decent can check white, does that mean they are treated as such by the dominant white culture? I dont think so, the events after 9-11 should answer your questions regarding this topic.

Thanks for the info.. I have never heard of some of this history and I thought I knew it all!

 

[tupac_don]

I have been told that it is extremely difficult to get into medical school especially if you are not a URM. Assuming that Asians are not underrepresented since most Asian parents force, I mean try to make their kids become doctors I would probably have a tough time competing for spots.

Well, I am about to reject a job offer to go to one of the Post-bac programs in NYC. It kind of worries me that I might end up not getting accepted anywhere but I will shoot for it anyway. I hope my friend was just exaggerating when he said his cousin at Harvard with good grades only got into 1 medical school.

Don't let other people scare you. I don't know what your stats are like, but if you have 30+ MCAT and 3.7 or greater avg, Asian or no Asian you will get in somewhere. So if you have sub 30 MCAT and 3.21 avg and say that its tough to get in as an Asian, that's not right, b/c anyone would have tough time making it with that average.

 

[peehdee]

I have been told that it is extremely difficult to get into medical school especially if you are not a URM. Assuming that Asians are not underrepresented since most Asian parents force, I mean try to make their kids become doctors I would probably have a tough time competing for spots.

Well, I am about to reject a job offer to go to one of the Post-bac programs in NYC. It kind of worries me that I might end up not getting accepted anywhere but I will shoot for it anyway. I hope my friend was just exaggerating when he said his cousin at Harvard with good grades only got into 1 medical school.

what is URM?

 

[Khenon]

what is URM?

Underrepresented Minority. ie African American, Hispanic American, and Native American. I know one other ethnic group got added to this list recently, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Was it Columbian or Cuban? I can't remember.