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Touro or NYU?
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NYU if only for the fact that I'd be extremely hesitant to be in the inaugural class of any school. You never know what issues could pop up and that's just extra stress added on top of all the other stress you'll have in dental school.
Erm why ask thoughts on Touro? No dentist or dental student would know anything about the school. Honestly you probably know more about it than anyone else since you've actually interviewed there.
Currently, NYU D1 is $117,807 based on their website. Touro D1 is $92,144 based on their website. That's a difference of $25,663, just in the first year itself.
If we extrapolate it out to four years, the difference will likely be over $100K before any interest.
The question you must ask yourself is: what is more important to me? A proven curriculum that costs $100K more before interest, or a curriculum that may have some issues, but will still get me to the same profession and save me $100K before interest?
If we extrapolate it out to four years, the difference will likely be over $100K before any interest.
The question you must ask yourself is: what is more important to me? A proven curriculum that costs $100K more before interest, or a curriculum that may have some issues, but will still get me to the same profession and save me $100K before interest?
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Simply being in NYC will add huge amounts of stress.
Following Incis0r's point, cost of living will be much higher in NYC.
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I'm sort of in a similar situation. I got into BU and I absolutely loved the school and the city. However, touro is going to run me about a 100k cheaper
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Can't they bump up tuition drastically at will? (any school can, but this is Touro's first year) What if they change their mind after one year? Will they have a patient pool large enough allow their students to graduate on time? No one will know until the first class starts clinical training.
Also Touro has not been accredited yet right?
Also Touro has not been accredited yet right?
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They are accredited now. And you can bet they will raise the tuition, why wouldn't they. It's a private school and people will pay anything for a DDS.
What's your decision?
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It might. But the stress I'm talking about is stuff like not passing boards, not having enough patients, graduating on time, etc. Stuff you would know the status of for more established schools. And, as others have said, Touro has only released 1st year tuition. They could easily have 2nd year tuition hike up 30k. There's no precedent for them.
This was an opinion thread. I was simply stating my opinion. If I were in OP's situation, I would take NYU over Touro's inaugural class 10 times over. However, if Touro were a 10 year old school, maybe I'd reconsider.
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We'll said. Obviously people who got accepted should be happy, but you have to be realistic.
All valid questions. I would hope that anyone attending Touro, having been to an interview session, would have asked these questions and gotten satisfactory answers.
Regarding tuition- any school can bump it up at will, and in fact, many do. Several private schools bump up 4-7% annually. This at a time when inflation hovers around just 1% per year. My only comment to this point would be to remember that NYU's tuition is not static either- it continues to increase each year.
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That's not the type of increase I was talking about. If Touro's D1 COA is $92, they'll soon have to give a COA for D2 next year. Perhaps, instead of keeping it around $92k (or increasing by 4-7% for "inflation") they will say that D2 costs $115k, D3 costs $110k and D4 costs $110k. And then, as the years go by, each of these prices increases steadily the way other schools do. If that happens, Touro wouldn't end up being much cheaper than NYU. Does that make sense? That'd be my concern.
A counterpoint I would give to you: Touro had PLENTY of applicants this cycle. Demand >>> Supply. Why not start off at NYU's price-point for D1 itself if they were already going to charge very high fees (NYU-level fees)? There's no doubt they'd fill the seats even at a higher D1 cost of attendance, and they'd profit much more.
And speaking more generally about significant cost increases, NYU could do that as well. In fact, if you go back over the last decade, this is exactly what happened with them (and several other dental schools). Even today, there's no guarantee that NYU will stick to its "minor" annual increase. Full CoA is backed by federal loans.
Like I said, this is something that I hope interviewees asked Touro administrators/financial aid office: "What are the projected annual tuition increase rates?"
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Why not start off at NYU's price point? I would guess because they're new. And if NYU cost exactly the same as Touro, which would you choose?
Again, these are my personal opinions. If I were in OP's shoes, I would pay more for NYU to not run the risk of the multitude of potential issues one could come across by being the first class in a new school. You are free to disagree.
I suspect that there are plenty of applicants to fill Touro's seats even if they costed the same as NYU.
Furthermore, not everyone has a choice between NYU and Touro- for many, Touro is their only ticket into the dental profession. It's not like Touro is actively competing against NYU for applicants.
Imagine you went to a pre-dent who was only accepted at Touro, and said "You're in at Touro, and your first year cost of attendance is $117K (NYU's current D1 cost), do you accept this offer or not?"
Do you think it would be hard for Touro to fill just one class with people saying "yes" to the question above?
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That's not what this thread was about. The OP made this asking if he should choose Touro or NYU.
I don't doubt that Touro could fill a class, but there have been so many discussions on that topic already that I feel like I would just be regurgitating people's information.
It totally is related to this thread because cost plays a big part in discussions of what school one should attend. In fact, for some people, cost is a primary factor of concern- especially when you are talking about a potential $100K price difference.
By explaining the fact that Touro could still fill its seats at a $117K D1 level, but that it chose to keep D1 costs at $92K, I am making the case that it is unlikely that Touro will do what you suggested (that Touro will significantly- as in, more than 4-7% per annum- raise prices D2 and beyond), and therefore that Touro will remain a financially stronger decision than NYU.
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I understand your case. Cost is indeed a huge concern. It just seemed as though you were getting into a whole discussion about the validity of Touro's existence. The thread is not about would people choose Touro if it's their only option. It is not OP's only option.
To repeat: my opinion was that, for me, Touro has too many unknowns (will students pass the boards? will they graduate on time? If not, a whole extra year of dental school would be an extra 100k anyway. will there be enough patients? will having no alumni network cause issues?) for me to feel comfortable committing to there. For a final time, you are free to disagree. If the only thing you care about is which school is cheaper then sure, choose Touro. For me, I am not enough of a risk taker to do so.
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I 100% agree with this.
This. I'd rather shell out the extra cash so I wouldn't have to worry about these things. In most cases I would choose the cheaper school, but not in this case.
F
fogorvostan
Exactly my thoughts. I would rather pay the extra money so that I wouldn't have to worry about those problems.
Take LECOM for example. The first year, they had their DMD and DO students taking classes together. They found out that was a mess so they changed it for future students. Now, their graduating class as a whole didn't do well on part 2 of their boards. Are they going to find a solution for this too? Yeah I'm sure they will... but I don't want to be that guinea pig when I'm paying literally tens of thousands of dollars for a degree that is truly my future.
Does being a new school for sure mean that things won't go well? Of course not. For instance, UNE has done a great job at establishing their program. My brother is a dentist in MA and has nothing but praises for that school.
Plus, haven't there been some sketchy things that happened with Touro's DO program? I don't really know how I feel about that...
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NYU with Army scholarship.
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NYU. This should not even be a debate.
1. NYU is a reputable school with the most patients in the country.
2. You DO NOT want to be a guinea pig for a school. Just look at what happened at LECOM. ~76% of their inaugural class failed their boards.
3. If you decide to specialize, it is highly unlikely that a residency would take a chance on someone from a brand new school.
4. NYU grads will have a better time finding a job in saturated markets. This is because of the networking from NYU alumni and the strong reputation of NYU. Some dentists or corporations will take the risk on a touro grads, but touro grads will not be as competitive. So the higher cost of attendance at is nothing when you think about the grand scheme.
In my opinion, even if touro was my only acceptance, I still would not go there and wait for the next cycle. No offense to those who were just accepted. I just value many other things rather than just "becoming a dentist". Not all dentist are made equal.
Idk why @Incis0r keeps talking about the stress of living in NYC. You will have loans that will cover everything and you're getting WAY more out of your money at NYU. This is 100% an unbiased opinion, I have no ties to either one of these schools nor did I apply to these two. If you are still unsure, talk to any dentist or admissions counselor at another school and they will tell you something similar.
1. NYU is a reputable school with the most patients in the country.
2. You DO NOT want to be a guinea pig for a school. Just look at what happened at LECOM. ~76% of their inaugural class failed their boards.
3. If you decide to specialize, it is highly unlikely that a residency would take a chance on someone from a brand new school.
4. NYU grads will have a better time finding a job in saturated markets. This is because of the networking from NYU alumni and the strong reputation of NYU. Some dentists or corporations will take the risk on a touro grads, but touro grads will not be as competitive. So the higher cost of attendance at is nothing when you think about the grand scheme.
In my opinion, even if touro was my only acceptance, I still would not go there and wait for the next cycle. No offense to those who were just accepted. I just value many other things rather than just "becoming a dentist". Not all dentist are made equal.
Idk why @Incis0r keeps talking about the stress of living in NYC. You will have loans that will cover everything and you're getting WAY more out of your money at NYU. This is 100% an unbiased opinion, I have no ties to either one of these schools nor did I apply to these two. If you are still unsure, talk to any dentist or admissions counselor at another school and they will tell you something similar.
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If you turn down a dental school acceptance to wait for future cycles, you will have a very hard time getting in for future classes. Good luck getting an adcom to agree with you that "Oh it was an acceptance to Touro- I'd rather go somewhere else" is a valid excuse. If you wouldn't go to Touro, why bother applying there in the first place?
A different user originally brought this up, not I.
It's very interesting that you can predict how corporate HR would view a Touro grad, before Touro even graduated its first class.
This is the ideal scenario, or like Faux said, with the Navy. or the Air Force. or the NHSC. You guys get the idea.
Both of the quoted statements above make sense.
My main point is that Touro is and likely will remain cheaper than NYU. However, when one makes a decision on dental schools, it is important to take several factors into account, not just cost (which is still a major factor).
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I can't agree more. I put these together in my head but I was too lazy to type it in
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I have a week to make that decision but it's like a 90:10 in BU's favor. The only thing touro has going for it is the lower tuition which is unfortunately a big factor
Fair enough- BU is a great program. Down-to-earth, fun-loving students there from all backgrounds. Congrats on your acceptance there 🙂.
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Yes, there will be concerns about a new school. I was reluctant to even apply. However, I don't know about NYU's reputation. I applied to Touro at the suggestion of a dentist I was shadowing. He is an NYU graduate and did not have good things to say about their program, which I've also heard from many others.
NYC is stressful and it's not just about money. People line up outside just to get into the grocery store near my apartment during the daily peak hours. It may sound petty, but almost everything in daily life is much more difficult in NYC. It has its advantages, but as a dental student, you will experience the downsides of cramped, noisy, rundown conditions and lack the time to experience the upsides. Your loans will allow you to spend a tremendous amount of money on rent, while having fairly poor living conditions or a long commute.
Yes, the education is ultimately what matters. NY Medical College is a respectable school and has been giving out MD degrees for a long time. They have hired people from other respectable dental programs to run their dental school. There are of course concerns, but I don't believe that it's likely for something like LECOM to happen.
If the question were Stony Brook vs Touro, I would definitely pick Stony Brook, but compared to NYU I would say that the answer is less clear.
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Of course you'd pick stony, it's one of the most competitive programs in the country and it's insanely cheap. While I don't personally think very highly of NYU, it is very established and produces graduates that can practice dentistry well. I used to live 5 minutes from Westchester Medical Center/NYMC and dreamed of going to the school when I heard it was going to open. Thankfully, I received a few acceptances prior. The uncertainty, with so much $$$ on the line, was something I couldn't justify.
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There was a time when NYU was a very bad school and later underwent a restructuring period. I don't know how old the dentist you shadowed is, but he or she might have went through that. The issues to my knowledge have all been resolved. Still people, just like at every other school, may not like it. Dental school generally isn't the most enjoyable time.
It sounds like you are not fond of the city? If you have experienced it already and know you do not like it, you may benefit from a change in scenery.
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There is no point to argue with these touro kids. Most of them see it as the only opportunity to become a dentist, so they constantly defend and praise the school. For anyone to say touro is a better option then any other established school is just idiotic.
I don't doubt that it will be a great program in the future, but as for the inagural class, you are taking a huge gamble. As a matter of fact, you're gambling with $200,000+ and 4 years of your life. They could always lose their accreditation, they could have the same problems as lecom, they could raise their tuition, etc. There's so many more cons than there are pros.
@Bootes: I have friends in NYU and its one of the best clinical school in the country and they love it. Also living in NYC as a student is not as bad as you are making it sound. And having a good MD program does not translate to a good dental program. That took time for them to build. You're comparing apples to oranges.
By all means, if touro is the only school you got into, go for it. But if you have options, don't gamble.
This is my last post. I'm not going to argue with these touro kids. They literally took over sdn this cycle.
I don't doubt that it will be a great program in the future, but as for the inagural class, you are taking a huge gamble. As a matter of fact, you're gambling with $200,000+ and 4 years of your life. They could always lose their accreditation, they could have the same problems as lecom, they could raise their tuition, etc. There's so many more cons than there are pros.
@Bootes: I have friends in NYU and its one of the best clinical school in the country and they love it. Also living in NYC as a student is not as bad as you are making it sound. And having a good MD program does not translate to a good dental program. That took time for them to build. You're comparing apples to oranges.
By all means, if touro is the only school you got into, go for it. But if you have options, don't gamble.
This is my last post. I'm not going to argue with these touro kids. They literally took over sdn this cycle.
I agree with you that it is a gamble when you are in the inaugural class and that there are unknowns.
One thing I will clarify is that any class that starts at Touro while the school is under "initial accreditation" WILL graduate from an accredited dental program. Initial accreditation is given to a school until its first class graduates- so there is no need for anyone to fear that accreditation will suddenly be rescinded while they are in the program.
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dont first year at touro have to take out loans through private banks? as touro cant offer federal loans? until they graduate first class?
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NYU does not have the best reputation. However the program has been running for a while and they know how to run it smoothly. NYU should have tons of patients for the student doctors to treat but will Touro have any when this first class becomes a third year? Will you have to stand in front of ShopRite handing out your business cards to recruit patients or look on Craigslist to find patients? Will there be enough qualified patients for 110 students to apply and pass the NERB? Will you have enough experience to say you are somewhat competent when you graduate? These are very important questions. At least NYU should and would have patients.
If the question were SB vs Touro vs NYU, SB wins the battle for sure. SB is way above this league so it is not relevant.
No offense to anyone. just my two cents
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Are you attending Penn? Good luck there. You will have fun in Philly.
Maybe I will see you there when you are third year
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Yes I will be, thanks! Very excited for Philly 🙂
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What is it about SB that makes it so great compared to the other schools? I don't know much about the program.
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40 seats, great clinic/faculty, cheap.
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anyone?
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40 seat means better faculty student ratio. This means you will have tons of faculty that can cover you during clinic years. You won't have to fight for chairs to see your patients and that significantly reduces the stress.
40 students at SB vs 275 students at NYU means you will have more number of patients per student so you have less concerns to fill the graduation requirement.
It's cheap. The same reason I went to Maryland over a private school with name value. I had about $33,000 scholarship and At the end of my dental school, I had $78,000 loan vs $500,000 I would have had at a private dental school.
To satisfy my academic ego, I went to Penn for endodontic post grad education. I ended up with $320,000 student loan all together but it was worth every penny.
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Damn, specializing costs that much?
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Sounds about right. My brother went to SB for dental school and then Harvard for perio.
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Unfortunately, yes 🙁
The estimated cost per year was $117,000 x 2 (years) = $234,000 + 15,000 (interest for 2 years at 7.9%) = $249,000 (apporximately)
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Were you in state at Maryland or OOS and converted to in state status? If you don't mind me asking, where did you get the scholarship from? Was it directly from the school or outside sources?
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Hi Hyunin, I was in state at Maryland to begin with. Maryland was my top choice and I had no reason to hesitate because of the in state status. The scholarship was directly from the school. There was no application for it and nobody knew about it until it was distributed. I think state schools get certain amount of funding for tuition grants. I hope this helps.
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