Trading money for free time

[GassYous]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I think my problem is that with my extra free time I won't do anything productive, just sit around in my boxers on the couch in front of the tv so I'd rather do stuff like mowing the lawn which gets me outside and moving. There's only so many times I can play kitchen or read peppa pig.

 

[rick roller pump]

Thanks for the responses. Some good stuff here. It is interesting to see which services people find worthwhile.

Someone made a really good point earlier about taking their car to the dealer for service because it is more convenient even though they know they are going to overpay. I think this is a really good way to look at it. I have agonized over small price differences or sacrificed convenience just to save a few bucks in the past. Not worth my time anymore. It is definitely worth paying up for convenience and peace of mind.

 

[sloh]

Hire a detail company/individual to come to YOUR house to wash your car. When my guy comes I unlock the car from my home and then lock it from my home when he’s done. Usually don’t even see his face.

Car needs servicing? Have 2 on rotation so you don’t need to bother with a rental or loaner. Hire someone to drive your car to the dealership for service. When it’s complete, pay them to drive it back for you. Porsche offers this to some of their customers free of charge.

Cleaners, gardeners, nannies (as well as night nannies so you can a full night of rest) are def worthwhile. No question about it.

Every single task/job you aren’t thrilled about doing should be weighed against how much you can make per hour at your job. Even those of you who buy/sell puts can use that extra time to focus on your side gig.

 

[DesiredMemberName?]

Great thread!

In medical school, I started paying to have my dress shirts laundered and pressed (I think it was $1.80 per shirt at the time). Never looked back! Although, since the pandemic, I doubt I've worn a dress shirt more than a handful of times (I was doing ICU at the time, and that was the norm, pre-pandemic).

We pay for a nanny for 40 hours a week, although our kids will start (free, public) school soon.
We've always paid for cleaning help, although presently in between people now, having just moved, and my wife CLAIMS she is enjoying doing the cleaning...

I take my car to the dealer for service, which costs more, although I get a free loaner, which has been very helpful. I also have them do things like tires, which are probably cheaper elsewhere, but it requires another trip to another place and eats another day off.

Sometimes, I don't return things we've ordered by mail. Like, depending on how much it had cost and how much of a pain in the ass it is to process the return and shipping, I'll just eat it.

Your wife is a SAHM and you hire a nanny 40hrs/wk? And you typically have hire a house cleaner and gardener as well?

 

[AKMD_1984]

Hire a detail company/individual to come to YOUR house to wash your car. When my guy comes I unlock the car from my home and then lock it from my home when he’s done. Usually don’t even see his face.

Car needs servicing? Have 2 on rotation so you don’t need to bother with a rental or loaner. Hire someone to drive your car to the dealership for service. When it’s complete, pay them to drive it back for you. Porsche offers this to some of their customers free of charge.

Cleaners, gardeners, nannies (as well as night nannies so you can a full night of rest) are def worthwhile. No question about it.

Every single task/job you aren’t thrilled about doing should be weighed against how much you can make per hour at your job. Even those of you who buy/sell puts can use that extra time to focus on your side gig.

Exactly. Learning to off load labor is one of the first lessons you learn in how to run a profitable business. All TIME SUCK activities are delegated.
The issue however, is finding the right person for the right job. It takes time, but to me, the freedom and time saving is worth it. I would rather do a few hours overtime per week than go fertilize my trees.

 

[cchoukal]

Rarely if ever do we go to the grocery store.
Groceries come to us.
We also abuse amazon, but the carbon foot print does annoy me.

we use amazon plenty, but I actually really like grocery shopping

Your wife is a SAHM and you hire a nanny 40hrs/wk? And you typically have hire a house cleaner and gardener as well?

I might have mentioned that we have twins, which is a whole other category of effort! My wife does occasionally work part time in consulting, and for the last year, she has been basically full-time managing our house renovation to great effect. Our nanny also does much of the house cleaning(but none of the gardening!), teaches them, Spanish, and her presence means that when I am off during the week, I can actually rest or do things. It’s a trade-off for sure, but one I have gladly been making.

You do what you have to do to get by for everybody’s well-being.

 

[sloh]

Exactly. Learning to off load labor is one of the first lessons you learn in how to run a profitable business. All TIME SUCK activities are delegated.
The issue however, is finding the right person for the right job. It takes time, but to me, the freedom and time saving is worth it. I would rather do a few hours overtime per week than go fertilize my trees.

Word of mouth helps a lot. Especially in a pretty nice neighborhood, one can usually just ask their neighbors which nannies, gardeners, cleaners they use

 

[sloh]

we use amazon plenty, but I actually really like grocery shopping.

Same. For a lot of ethnic stores like h-mart, you’ll miss out on a lot of foods worth trying just relying on the Instacart catalogue. A lot of what they sell is isn’t even on Instacart and for stuff like fruits, you really have to go in person to see/touch/feel to ensure they are your desired ripeness and quality.

 

[cchoukal]

Same. For a lot of ethnic stores like h-mart, you’ll miss out on a lot of foods worth trying just relying on the Instacart catalogue. A lot of what they sell is isn’t even on Instacart and for stuff like fruits, you really have to go in person to see/touch/feel to ensure they are your desired ripeness and quality.

Farmers markets, too. In our part of town, it’s a full day event and is actually really fun for everybody and quality of the food is obviously great. our kids are still at an age where things like that count as fun activities, but I’m sure those days are ending.

 

[sloh]

Farmers markets, too. In our part of town, it’s a full day event and is actually really fun for everybody and quality of the food is obviously great. our kids are still at an age where things like that count as fun activities, but I’m sure those days are ending.

Yuuup. And they usually let you sample the food before buying

 

[pgg]

You mow your own lawn, but you won’t move your own boxes?

Mowing a lawn on a nice zero-turn is a couple hours spent outdoors sitting in a comfortable chair. We have perhaps a couple acres worth of grass in total now and it really isn't unpleasant at all to get the front, back, and paths through the woods. I stop and say hi to the neighbor's horses. It's a completely different task than dragging a push mower over a lawn in suburbia to keep the HOA off your back for another week.

Moving boxes and loading a truck is just unpleasant, tedious work, no matter the circumstances.

 

[aneftp]

Trump wlomi

Your wife is a SAHM and you hire a nanny 40hrs/wk? And you typically have hire a house cleaner and gardener as well?

Not answering for him

But 70% of the stay at home women in my neighborhood.

Some only have one kid. Can the kid has a driver to drive them to elite private elementary and middle schools costing 28k a year.

I’ve fallen into the trap as well

Exactly. Learning to off load labor is one of the first lessons you learn in how to run a profitable business. All TIME SUCK activities are delegated.
The issue however, is finding the right person for the right job. It takes time, but to me, the freedom and time saving is worth it. I would rather do a few hours overtime per week than go fertilize my trees.

I’ve been using uber eats more to order.

Even though I know it’s essentially a 30% markup to deliver up to 40% with tips.

I mitigate some of this my loading up on Costco uber gift cards ($80) for $100

But part of me still remembers working for $4.25 an hour at the grocery store in high school and most of college so I value my money. Even if it means a 20-30 min round trip to pickup food in my electric car to save on gasoline. I could also send my 14 yo on the golf cart that goes 25 mph to pickup the food and not waste my time.

 

[nimbus]

Same. For a lot of ethnic stores like h-mart, you’ll miss out on a lot of foods worth trying just relying on the Instacart catalogue. A lot of what they sell is isn’t even on Instacart and for stuff like fruits, you really have to go in person to see/touch/feel to ensure they are your desired ripeness and quality.

Farmers markets, too. In our part of town, it’s a full day event and is actually really fun for everybody and quality of the food is obviously great. our kids are still at an age where things like that count as fun activities, but I’m sure those days are ending.

For me going to H-mart and farmers markets are recreational activities like going to the beach.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

For me going to H-mart and farmers markets are recreational activities like going to the beach.

Preach. I’m all about ethnic food projects. If my spouse won’t kill me for hogging the kitchen, my goal this weekend is a big batch of escabeche

 

[nimbus]

Preach. I’m all about ethnic food projects. If my spouse won’t kill me for hogging the kitchen, my goal this weekend is a big batch of escabeche

I had to google “escabeche”. Looks amazing!

 

[sloh]

I’ve been using uber eats more to order.

It's unfortunate a lot of foods don't travel well. Fried chicken unless it's heavily breaded, fries, burgers, sushi, pizza (unless it's domino's, Pizza Hut). Even asian stir fried veggie dishes can tend to wilt and degrade in texture when they essentially continue steaming in the containers. I once ordered Din Tai Fung through ubereats and oh boy was I disappointed.

 

[nimbus]

It's unfortunate a lot of foods don't travel well. Fried chicken unless it's heavily breaded, fries, burgers, sushi, pizza (unless it's domino's, Pizza Hut). Even asian stir fried veggie dishes can tend to wilt and degrade in texture when they essentially continue steaming in the containers. I once ordered Din Tai Fung through ubereats and oh boy was I disappointed.

Din tai fung must be consumed steaming hot at the table in the restaurant. In my experience, Thai and Indian are good for takeout or ubereats.

 

[circleK]

I knew close to nothing about investing in residency. Now I know almost everything needed to be successful (i.e., set aside emergency funds, invest the rest into index funds, 1-5% allocation to riskier assets if desired). I unexpectedly love crunching the numbers every month.

No matter how much I read about it in my free time, my professional literally spends all his time doing it, so he will always know more and get me better returns, just like I will always give a better anesthetic than him.

 

[sevoflurane]

Yes. Thai, Indian, Chinese are hits here for uber eats. If we order Costo we always get one of their massive yummy rotisserie chickens. We might make some costo chicken soup with some fresh carrots and celery in there.

I do meal prep for several days at a time which is nice for quick healthy meals.

We try to be up at 4:30 am and at the gym by 5 before work (wife is a lot better at this than I am). Having some solid home cooked meals ready to take to work is sooooo much better than eating hospital food. Spending time to meal prep is worth it IMO.
We recently made our first pastrami. That was a process, but we vacuum sealed a lot of it and is hanging out with a ton of other quick edibles in the deep freezer.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

so he will always know more and get me better returns

before all the fees though.

 

[deleted641888]

No matter how much I read about it in my free time, my professional literally spends all his time doing it, so he will always know more and get me better returns, just like I will always give a better anesthetic than him.

This sounds like it could be true, but it's not rooted in reality.

Active vs. Passive Investing: Which Approach Offers Better Returns?

There are many, many other sources that say the same thing: passive investing >>>>> active investing in 99% of situations over a long enough time period. Almost none of us are ultra high net worth individuals with niche investments that may need active management (and high fees).

The reality is that you're paying somebody a lot of money (comparatively) to make less money over time (comparatively). This loss/opportunity cost can be a significant amount over several decades.

 

[circleK]

But you are not factoring in the time which is what this thread was about. I spend zero time on my finances. The time I would be doing that is spent working (at a better rate) or with my fam.

 

[deleted641888]

But you are not factoring in the time which is what this thread was about. I spend zero time on my finances. The time I would be doing that is spent working (at a better rate) or with my fam.

I get it. Not trying to rag on you at all. Just trying to convince you to dedicate a few weekends to read about passive investing. Then you will spend literally 2 minutes every month to transfer some money to your brokerage, buy more index funds, and then not think about it at all.

 

[kidthor]

I get it. Not trying to rag on you at all. Just trying to convince you to dedicate a few weekends to read about passive investing. Then you will spend literally 2 minutes every month to transfer some money to your brokerage, buy more index funds, and then not think about it at all.

These days I just VOO and forget it.

 

[PpfSuxTube]

No matter how much I read about it in my free time, my professional literally spends all his time doing it, so he will always know more and get me better returns, just like I will always give a better anesthetic than him.

Thats just not true on average. Most fund managers etc can never beat s&p

 

[pgg]

But you are not factoring in the time which is what this thread was about. I spend zero time on my finances. The time I would be doing that is spent working (at a better rate) or with my fam.

We manage our own investments.

It takes essentially no time. The only things we do are make deposits and rebalance the index funds according to our chosen asset allocation.

Nothing wrong with paying a flat fee to a fiduciary (legally obligated to act in YOUR best interest) for help setting up and running a passive portfolio. Just watch out for higher fund costs, transaction costs, and fees heading to that advisor's pockets.

A lot of doctors who valued their time have made a lot of financial advisors a lot of money.

 

[pgg]

Thats just not true on average. Most fund managers etc can never beat s&p

The funny thing about the last 15ish years of record bull markets and everyone making lots of money, is that many of those people think they made money because they're smart. A whole lot of very clever day traders and market timers and stock pickers are in for a rude awakening when there's finally a blip in the number-goes-up market they've known their entire investing lives.

 

[GravelRider]

Mowing a lawn on a nice zero-turn is a couple hours spent outdoors sitting in a comfortable chair. We have perhaps a couple acres worth of grass in total now and it really isn't unpleasant at all to get the front, back, and paths through the woods. I stop and say hi to the neighbor's horses. It's a completely different task than dragging a push mower over a lawn in suburbia to keep the HOA off your back for another week.

Moving boxes and loading a truck is just unpleasant, tedious work, no matter the circumstances.

To each his own. I used to mow my lawn, but now if I’m outside, I’d rather be hiking, biking, playing with my kids, or sitting reading a book instead of cutting grass. I do all the other landscaping in my yard, which is mainly ripping up invasives and stupid ornamentals from the previous owner and replacing with native plants. $40 a week from May to October gave me 2 extra hours a week to do something I enjoy. To be honest, I would love to reduce my lawn footprint even more and replace it with a vegetable garden, small orchard, or berry bushes. We’ll see. My mindless audiobook/music time is usually when I’m exercising of some sort.

I haven’t moved a family yet, so my memory of moving day is probably skewed, but it was always an excuse to reward myself with pizza and a few beers after some functional exercise. I would probably pay for movers now…at least until my kids are old enough to provide free labor.

The funny thing about the last 15ish years of record bull markets and everyone making lots of money, is that many of those people think they made money because they're smart. A whole lot of very clever day traders and market timers and stock pickers are in for a rude awakening when there's finally a blip in the number-goes-up market they've known their entire investing lives.

The smartest thing people can do is live well within their means. Managing expenses is probably more important than chasing returns…if you want free time, that is. An anesthesiologist salary can cover up for a lot of vices, but you’re going to pay for it with time in the stool.

 

[sevoflurane]

People have different tolerances, but paying someone 1% of your net worth in after tax dollars should be early pickings to do yourself. It’s really easy and you can go with a 3-4 etf portfolio that will carry you until the end.

As for lawn service…$60 a week to do our lawn is worth it for the extra garage space alone plus not dealing with the clippings and gas odors.

I also do a lot of the yard work, but q2 weeks I have someone here for 5 hours to tighten things up. Def. worth it to me.

Yesterday the plumber wanted $400 to replace a garbage disposal that was leaking. HARD pass. Picked one up at HD on the way home and installed it in less than 30 minutes. Worth my time.

Security System rep wanted 12k to install a new home security system.
Did it in 12ish hours with a few friends. 850ft of cat 7 cable that cost me $180. Also worth my time.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

I like a Costco or Grocery run with the wife and family. It’s a good way to teach the kids how to feed themselves (Just in case they can’t afford personal shoppers when adults) and plan and it’s a substitute for planning other family activities.

They can never then say “dad, we never do anything together!” Bro we spent 30 minutes straight looking at different gushers trying to decide the best flavor

 

[dchz]

Pay for the things that take time but you hate doing or have no interest in. I hate cutting grass and weeding so I pay for those. I hate deep cleaning the house so I pay for that. I love cooking so will never pay for a chef or meal service. I love plowing with my Wrangler so I won’t pay for snow removal. I would also put (and this will be blasphemous to many in here) my financial advisor in this category. Proper investing takes constant time and I have very little interest in the research it takes, so I let my trusted professional do the work for a fee.

Too many people here trying to tell you how you should manage your money. So I will only comment one time.

The central message I feel is lost in the details of this thread:

Assuming the outcome of the money manager managing your money and your self directed managing your money have similar outcomes, the 1% AUM +10% profit you pay a money manager ** MIGHT** be worth your free time/worries.

Most people commenting thinks it's too big of a rip-off to pay the 1% AUM + 10% profit AND get less returns than set it and forget it approach. (This is a very nuanced point worth noting).

Best of luck to your investments.

 

[GassYous]

It's unfortunate a lot of foods don't travel well. Fried chicken unless it's heavily breaded, fries, burgers, sushi, pizza (unless it's domino's, Pizza Hut). Even asian stir fried veggie dishes can tend to wilt and degrade in texture when they essentially continue steaming in the containers. I once ordered Din Tai Fung through ubereats and oh boy was I disappointed.

Use a air fryer. Will do a pretty good job for pizza, fries, etc.

 

[anonperson]

Have a housekeeper come once a week. Worth every penny when I come home and see the nice vacuum lines in the carpet.

I have a gardener come by but he's basically mow and blow. I have a comically small patch of grass. I fertilize and reseed as needed. I enjoy doing it and it isn't time consuming.

One of my favorite things to do is go to Costco and Aldi to buy meat, fruit, vegetables, snacks etc. I find it very relaxing since I typically go after work when the crowd isn't bad.

The Aldi in Southern California typically have solid produce compared to the rest of the country.

 

[anonperson]

No matter how much I read about it in my free time, my professional literally spends all his time doing it, so he will always know more and get me better returns, just like I will always give a better anesthetic than him.

VTI and maybe VXUS and chill. If you want bonds, add VBTLX.

That combination will beat nearly every active investor over a 30 year span.

 

[Simba1711]

No matter how much I read about it in my free time, my professional literally spends all his time doing it, so he will always know more and get me better returns, just like I will always give a better anesthetic than him.

This is false. The professional can’t predict the stock market either. He can get lucky over a short term but over long term no one can reliably predict the stock market. A low cost index fund will outperform an actively managed fund mainly because of the costs.

If you do get a financial advisor make sure it’s fiduciary which means they have your best interests. A lot of financial advisors have secondary gains. Also , make sure it’s a flat fee. If they are charging 1% of your assets under management which is standard for some advisors that is so much money lost in the long term. There is a wide variety of financial advisors and some may have just an online course to get qualified I would do your research and check their qualifications. I would understand if you want a financial advisor for help in determining your risk tolerance and helping you stay the course. They may also be helpful in balancing your savings and spendings. A lot of people may say they can take risk but may want to sell their stocks as soon as the prices drop.( it’s hard to see your net worth drop 50 percent during a crash ). A financial advisor will help convince you not to sell during these times.

I would encourage reading bogleheads guide to three fund porfolio, bogleheads guide to investing, the smartest portfolio you’ll ever own , and white coat investor. You’ll get a better idea of what I’m referring to.

Wall Street wants to make investing complicated but just by buying index funds you’ll have a slow but steady path to wealth.