Transition from Clinical to I/O

[earnadegree123]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hi all!

Does anyone do any type of organizational work here? What do you do? What do you like about it?

Do you have any tips to transition from a clinical degree to I/O work?

Thanks in advance!

 

[WisNeuro]

Ate you very good at marketing? Are you comfortable using pseudo-scientific measures that sound good but have zero validity? Are you conventionally atrractive and/or quirky/charismatic? If so, you have a good shot at making it work.

On the other side of serious I/O work, are you very good at stats?

 

[albatross_at_crossroads]

I'm probably going to echo WisNeuro here, but that answer pretty much sums it up 🙂

I did the transition from clinical to I/O work and now I'm making the transition back to clinical. There are good sides and bad for both, as with everything. The good news is that there are many transferable skills, from clinical to I/O. It depends how much experience you have and what you like to do.
If you have assessment experience and stats/analysis, that really can come in handy! Basic clinical skills and general psych/behavioral knowledge as well. There are some let's say decent non-clinical assessments that have some validity to back them up to be predictive for the workplace, but they are not that many, so you might be limited in that regard.

This is also the type of field where you really have to be "on" most of the time - your image and the way you present yourself really matters, unless you transition to a fully back-end/ data cruncher type of role. In the business world other things matter compared to clinical psych and academia.

So, do you have a sense of what type of role you are looking for? How do you imagine your day-to-day? And also, why do you want to make this transition - is it a financial thing, boredom, burnout? I think having a good awareness of these things will help you make the transition successfully.

 

[Sanman]

Ate you very good at marketing? Are you comfortable using pseudo-scientific measures that sound good but have zero validity? Are you conventionally atrractive and/or quirky/charismatic? If so, you have a good shot at making it work.

On the other side of serious I/O work, are you very good at stats?

You forgot tall. Tony Robbins is very tall.

 

[WisNeuro]

You forgot tall. Tony Robbins is very tall.

And huge teeth.

But yeah, we had a clinical psych turned I/O consultant come in when I was at my last hospital job. We paid her an ungodly amount of money to come in, give a bunch of junk measures which included nonsensical personality measures that related to favorite color, and she gave a presentation at the end with a lot of empty buzzwords, and left some pamphlets with the same. Not a thing changed organizationally, or morale-wise after that. Although, firing 20% of the staff before Xmas probably didn't help either. Long story short, my hospital system was not a good steward of its finances, and some IO people are downright shysters.

 

[albatross_at_crossroads]

But yeah, we had a clinical psych turned I/O consultant come in when I was at my last hospital job. We paid her an ungodly amount of money to come in, give a bunch of junk measures which included nonsensical personality measures that related to favorite color, and she gave a presentation at the end with a lot of empty buzzwords, and left some pamphlets with the same. Not a thing changed organizationally, or morale-wise after that. Although, firing 20% of the staff before Xmas probably didn't help either. Long story short, my hospital system was not a good steward of its finances, and some IO people are downright shysters.

Yes, your experience is universal from what I can tell, I've seen it in European countries as well.
There are some good consultants out there who try to use better and validated instruments, but it's a very low number. Highly regarded/competent ones can make a difference organizationally, but they also cost a ton - and to be completely honest with you, in many cases (like the one you mentioned) internal psych people can do a much better job.

Also - congrats on the 14k posts. That's quite the achievement! 🙂

 

[Sanman]

And huge teeth.

But yeah, we had a clinical psych turned I/O consultant come in when I was at my last hospital job. We paid her an ungodly amount of money to come in, give a bunch of junk measures which included nonsensical personality measures that related to favorite color, and she gave a presentation at the end with a lot of empty buzzwords, and left some pamphlets with the same. Not a thing changed organizationally, or morale-wise after that. Although, firing 20% of the staff before Xmas probably didn't help either. Long story short, my hospital system was not a good steward of its finances, and some IO people are downright shysters.

My wife's company has some 80 y.o dude who did some of this stuff as part of the "leadership training" program give them a presentation, a personality test, and book on personality types. I am still trying to figure out how to get hired at that gig when the old dude retires/kicks the bucket. Cushy work if you can get it.

 

[albatross_at_crossroads]

My wife's company has some 80 y.o dude who did some of this stuff as part of the "leadership training" program give them a presentation, a personality test, and book on personality types. I am still trying to figure out how to get hired at that gig when the old dude retires/kicks the bucket. Cushy work if you can get it.

Haha. It is pretty cushy work. The secret there is that you need to find a good sales person to do the legwork and sell those trainings. If you find someone like that, then your part becomes really easy.

 

[Sanman]

Haha. It is pretty cushy work. The secret there is that you need to find a good sales person to do the legwork and sell those trainings. If you find someone like that, then your part becomes really easy.

This is a Fortune 100 company and I think he is full time there...so, no sales required any longer.

 

[WisNeuro]

Also - congrats on the 14k posts. That's quite the achievement! 🙂

Oh man, that's a high number. I may need an SDN vacay.

My wife's company has some 80 y.o dude who did some of this stuff as part of the "leadership training" program give them a presentation, a personality test, and book on personality types. I am still trying to figure out how to get hired at that gig when the old dude retires/kicks the bucket. Cushy work if you can get it.

Easy, let's form an LLC/S-corp, I'll make some tenuous links between some neuroscience research, personality stuff, maybe some "fullfillment" BS; we'll make some brochures, market it out, give some jargony talks with some folksy aphorisms sprinkled in. Next step, profit.

 

[Sanman]

Oh man, that's a high number. I may need an SDN vacay.



Easy, let's form an LLC/S-corp, I'll make some tenuous links between some neuroscience research, personality stuff, maybe some "fullfillment" BS; we'll make some brochures, market it out, give some jargony talks with some folksy aphorisms sprinkled in. Next step, profit.

14000 posts, have you billed SDN as a content provider yet?

Works for me, I actually had a bit of a side gig giving talks previously (nursing groups, ALFs, county ombudsman, hospice) that has died down since switching jobs.

 

[WisNeuro]

14000 posts, have you billed SDN as a content provider yet?

Works for me, I actually had a bit of a side gig giving talks previously (nursing groups, ALFs, county ombudsman, hospice) that has died down since switching jobs.

I'm holding out for stock options.

 

[earnadegree123]

Thank you everyone for the input. There are many factors having me consider options like this, which are not limited to burnout and questioning my choice in career overall.

After trying every setting I can think of, I've 98% decided clinical work just isn't for me. I like working with ideas, figuring out how things work together, guiding people, and providing education. I also enjoy assessment and I'm good at it, but I'd prefer minimal client-facing time.

So maybe exploring program development, administration, or something I've yet to consider might be a good option. Onward in the search!

 

[albatross_at_crossroads]

Thank you everyone for the input. There are many factors having me consider options like this, which are not limited to burnout and questioning my choice in career overall.

After trying every setting I can think of, I've 98% decided clinical work just isn't for me. I like working with ideas, figuring out how things work together, guiding people, and providing education. I also enjoy assessment and I'm good at it, but I'd prefer minimal client-facing time.

So maybe exploring program development, administration, or something I've yet to consider might be a good option. Onward in the search!

I think that any career transition needs a lot of thought and it's always a bad idea to rush it if it's because of burnout on your current path. With that being said, if you are pretty decided that clinical work isn't for you, I've met a few clinical PhDs who applied to big management consulting firms and made a pretty big switch that way. One of them eventually came back to clinical, but they said they didn't regret all the things they learned in the industry.
It might be something to consider - you would get to mostly work with ideas and figure out solutions to problems together with the client, but the context would be quite different and maybe more appealing? That path comes with a lot of stress on its own so you have to be prepared for that; you will likely receive less recognition for your training, but the doctorate will draw the eye of recruiters and you might get a bigger initial financial package. Just an idea.

 

[erg923]

Thank you everyone for the input. There are many factors having me consider options like this, which are not limited to burnout and questioning my choice in career overall.

After trying every setting I can think of, I've 98% decided clinical work just isn't for me. I like working with ideas, figuring out how things work together, guiding people, and providing education. I also enjoy assessment and I'm good at it, but I'd prefer minimal client-facing time.

So maybe exploring program development, administration, or something I've yet to consider might be a good option. Onward in the search!

The applied I/O world comes with lots of client-facing time. Its just not likely to be with schizophrenics. There is always consulting and management within the managed care/health insurance industry.

 

[Ollie123]

You all have had much weirder experiences with I/O folks than I have.

Almost everyone I know in the field is doing behind-the-scenes work in large companies (basically HR analytics) or in test development. Their assessment knowledge blows away the vast majority of clinical PhDs I've met, who seem unable to escape a CTT mentality. External consultants are often weird, but the folks I know in those roles have usually not even been I/O psychologists by training.

 

[thebalmofhurtminds]

You all have had much weirder experiences with I/O folks than I have.

Almost everyone I know in the field is doing behind-the-scenes work in large companies (basically HR analytics) or in test development. Their assessment knowledge blows away the vast majority of clinical PhDs I've met, who seem unable to escape a CTT mentality. External consultants are often weird, but the folks I know in those roles have usually not even been I/O psychologists by training.

This has been similar to my experience too. My graduate program had a stellar I/O program as well and they're all making much more money than me with much better stats skills in industry.

 

[WisNeuro]

You all have had much weirder experiences with I/O folks than I have.

Almost everyone I know in the field is doing behind-the-scenes work in large companies (basically HR analytics) or in test development. Their assessment knowledge blows away the vast majority of clinical PhDs I've met, who seem unable to escape a CTT mentality. External consultants are often weird, but the folks I know in those roles have usually not even been I/O psychologists by training.

I have friends from the sister I/O program who have done this type of work. And yes, they were all super experts in stats and test construction. However, for folks working in larger clinical healthcare settings, our run ins with "I/O" people tend to be more what I described. There's a fairly wide umbrella of folks who refer to themselves as IO.

 

[Sanman]

I have friends from the sister I/O program who have done this type of work. And yes, they were all super experts in stats and test construction. However, for folks working in larger clinical healthcare settings, our run ins with "I/O" people tend to be more what I described. There's a fairly wide umbrella of folks who refer to themselves as IO.

Agreed, this is what I was speaking about as well and is what I have seen clinical folks transition into. We had an I/O and Human Factors program and a lot of those folks are employed in UX research and big data. I don't know any clinical folks that transitioned into that. More of the healthcare and leadership training stuff. I do regret not doing that and getting into big data. I had an interest in it and tutored some of those folks in stats.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

You all have had much weirder experiences with I/O folks than I have.

Almost everyone I know in the field is doing behind-the-scenes work in large companies (basically HR analytics) or in test development. Their assessment knowledge blows away the vast majority of clinical PhDs I've met, who seem unable to escape a CTT mentality. External consultants are often weird, but the folks I know in those roles have usually not even been I/O psychologists by training.

I suspect it's a difference in how "I/O" is defined--the folks I've met who actually got their degree in I/O are identical to what you mentioned. I suspect a lot of the folks referenced in this thread started in clinical (or something else) and then transitioned into "I/O."

 

[WisNeuro]

I suspect it's a difference in how "I/O" is defined--the folks I've met who actually got their degree in I/O are identical to what you mentioned. I suspect a lot of the folks referenced in this thread started in clinical (or something else) and then transitioned into "I/O."

This has been my experience. All of my friends who did an actual I/O PhD went on to various jobs in corporate life, profs for business schools, and personnel selection for the CIA, to name a few. Almost everyone I've run into who does "I/O" in the healthcare org world is a clinical psych who transitioned to I/O. The former are almost universally impressive in their grasp of methods and stats. Almost all of the latter are caricatures of professional psychologists.