Transitional Year Question

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HalladayWeekend

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If I am accepted into a residency program that requires a transitional year program (i.e. derm), can this be set up so that it is in the same area? Is the match for the transitional year done after the rest of the match is complete? If not and I match for the transitional year in a city somewhere different than the residency, can I then drop that program and find one in the same city I will be doing the rest of my residency? I am hoping that if I do have to move to a different city after med school, I only have to move once. Thanks!

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If I am accepted into a residency program that requires a transitional year program (i.e. derm), can this be set up so that it is in the same area? Is the match for the transitional year done after the rest of the match is complete? If not and I match for the transitional year in a city somewhere different than the residency, can I then drop that program and find one in the same city I will be doing the rest of my residency? I am hoping that if I do have to move to a different city after med school, I only have to move once. Thanks!

Probably belongs in the Resident forums but good info everyone.

The thing you want to do with your life is called categorical. You'll see why the verbage gets a little more complicated in a second, just go with it for now.

The year you put your dues into before you do the thing you want is your intern year, also called prelim or transitional year. Prelims and transitionals are different in certain aspects, but for this discussion, let's just call them "the year before the thing you want."

So its residency time.

If you want to do a residency in something that is also a prelim program (like Peds, Medicine, Gen Surg, Psych) then you apply only categorical. You get into the program, you do an intern year in that program, then you simply continue at the same place, in the same field. Easy. For this person, the difference between an intern year, a prelim year, and a transitional year is meaningless. You are a categorical, you start and finish your residency in the same hospital, in the same program, in the same field.

If, like many, you want to do a residency in something other than the cores (Ortho, optho, derm, anesthesia, neuro, pmnr, radiation oncology), you first have to do a prelim year (which can also be a transitional year) in one of the cores. The prelim year and the rest of the residency are essentially two separate matches. You do an intern year somewhere, then you go to your main residency for the duration.

SOME people get to do their prelim year at the same place they will do their residency. Others do it elsewhere. If you are doing Ortho at an awesome program, but the gen surg program is horrendously malignant, you wouldn't want to be beat on your intern year, so you go do your intern year somewhere else. "Intern year" here is "prelim" or "transitional." All synonymous. You could do your intern year in San Fran and then your Categorical Residency in New York.

BUT when you match its basically a done deal. If you get into a dermatology program with an attached intern year in medicine, you do the intern year at that place and then derm there. If you get optho in philly and an intern year in nevada, that's what you do. You do not get the opportunity to see where you matched categorical before choosing your prelim. You submit them at the same time, you receive notice of them at the same time (on match day).

Ok, here's where it gets complicated. Some residency positions lock you in to doing a prelim year at their institution and other residency positions don't. These two residency positions are BOTH present at the same residency. You obviously want the one where you AREN'T locked in, and can choose to do your prelim year anywhere.

"Prelim" year generally implies "im doing an intern year but I don't have a residency to go to and am reapplying this year"

"Transitional" year generally implies "im doing an intern year and then I'm going to do a real residency in something better than you are"

And for one final element of complication, you CAN change your prelim year. It comes at a great cost. You need to have a tremendous connection with the place you want to go instead. The place you leave will hate you, giving you a bad rap. If that place is your categorical spot, extra bad news. Generally, it isn't done because the bridges you burn aren't worth it, AND you can end up royaly screwed, but you CAN drop your prelim year to take another elsewhere.
 
BUT when you match its basically a done deal. If you get into a dermatology program with an attached intern year in medicine, you do the intern year at that place and then derm there. If you get optho in philly and an intern year in nevada, that's what you do. You do not get the opportunity to see where you matched categorical before choosing your prelim. You submit them at the same time, you receive notice of them at the same time (on match day).

Fantastic overall explanation. Only thing I would add, for clarification since you used Ophtho as an example, is that Ophtho and Urology are early matches. You find out where you do Ophtho in January, and you find out where you do your prelim/transitional year in March. So you don't really receive notice of them at the same time. One of the benefits of an early match, although there are several annoying things about an early match as well (like having to fill out ERAS and the separate, different Ophthalmology application).
 
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Probably belongs in the Resident forums but good info everyone.

The thing you want to do with your life is called categorical. You'll see why the verbage gets a little more complicated in a second, just go with it for now.

The year you put your dues into before you do the thing you want is your intern year, also called prelim or transitional year. Prelims and transitionals are different in certain aspects, but for this discussion, let's just call them "the year before the thing you want."

So its residency time.

If you want to do a residency in something that is also a prelim program (like Peds, Medicine, Gen Surg, Psych) then you apply only categorical. You get into the program, you do an intern year in that program, then you simply continue at the same place, in the same field. Easy. For this person, the difference between an intern year, a prelim year, and a transitional year is meaningless. You are a categorical, you start and finish your residency in the same hospital, in the same program, in the same field.

If, like many, you want to do a residency in something other than the cores (Ortho, optho, derm, anesthesia, neuro, pmnr, radiation oncology), you first have to do a prelim year (which can also be a transitional year) in one of the cores. The prelim year and the rest of the residency are essentially two separate matches. You do an intern year somewhere, then you go to your main residency for the duration.

SOME people get to do their prelim year at the same place they will do their residency. Others do it elsewhere. If you are doing Ortho at an awesome program, but the gen surg program is horrendously malignant, you wouldn't want to be beat on your intern year, so you go do your intern year somewhere else. "Intern year" here is "prelim" or "transitional." All synonymous. You could do your intern year in San Fran and then your Categorical Residency in New York.

BUT when you match its basically a done deal. If you get into a dermatology program with an attached intern year in medicine, you do the intern year at that place and then derm there. If you get optho in philly and an intern year in nevada, that's what you do. You do not get the opportunity to see where you matched categorical before choosing your prelim. You submit them at the same time, you receive notice of them at the same time (on match day).

Ok, here's where it gets complicated. Some residency positions lock you in to doing a prelim year at their institution and other residency positions don't. These two residency positions are BOTH present at the same residency. You obviously want the one where you AREN'T locked in, and can choose to do your prelim year anywhere.

"Prelim" year generally implies "im doing an intern year but I don't have a residency to go to and am reapplying this year"

"Transitional" year generally implies "im doing an intern year and then I'm going to do a real residency in something better than you are"

And for one final element of complication, you CAN change your prelim year. It comes at a great cost. You need to have a tremendous connection with the place you want to go instead. The place you leave will hate you, giving you a bad rap. If that place is your categorical spot, extra bad news. Generally, it isn't done because the bridges you burn aren't worth it, AND you can end up royaly screwed, but you CAN drop your prelim year to take another elsewhere.


Thanks for the great explanation! As an aide then with the transitional intern year for derm, it would seem wise to apply to transitional intern programs in one specific area (i.e. where you are for med school). By doing it this way, it would seem you could avoid having to move twice. If you don't match in a transitional intern program, I guess you could always try to "scramble" in a geographic area of your choice.
 
As an aide then with the transitional intern year for derm, it would seem wise to apply to transitional intern programs in one specific area (i.e. where you are for med school).

It would, except that transitional year programs in many areas are few and far between (my state only has 3).
 
"Prelim" year generally implies "im doing an intern year but I don't have a residency to go to and am reapplying this year"

"Transitional" year generally implies "im doing an intern year and then I'm going to do a real residency in something better than you are"


I've definitely never heard this being the case . . .

At least on the east coast, "Prelim" year generally implies "Prelim year in medicine or surgery" and makes no specification about whether you have a categorical spot or not. "Transitional" year generally implies "Transitional year program" and makes no specification about whether you have a categorical spot or not.
 
I've definitely never heard this being the case . . .

At least on the east coast, "Prelim" year generally implies "Prelim year in medicine or surgery" and makes no specification about whether you have a categorical spot or not. "Transitional" year generally implies "Transitional year program" and makes no specification about whether you have a categorical spot or not.
Agree with you. Transitional just implies that you have more variety and elective choice (usually) than a prelim in surgery or medicine.
 
I've definitely never heard this being the case . . .

At least on the east coast, "Prelim" year generally implies "Prelim year in medicine or surgery" and makes no specification about whether you have a categorical spot or not. "Transitional" year generally implies "Transitional year program" and makes no specification about whether you have a categorical spot or not.

I think that was originally meant to be sort of a joke...not even enough TY spots in the country to support all the people 'going into better specialties than you'. 😉
 
Thanks for the great explanation! As an aide then with the transitional intern year for derm, it would seem wise to apply to transitional intern programs in one specific area (i.e. where you are for med school). By doing it this way, it would seem you could avoid having to move twice. If you don't match in a transitional intern program, I guess you could always try to "scramble" in a geographic area of your choice.

It would, except that transitional year programs in many areas are few and far between (my state only has 3).

Yeah, great idea in theory but difficult in practice. Transitional spots are generally coveted because they're being sought after by applicants to many competitive fields. Then there's the fact that there just aren't that many transitional programs. Very few people will get a transitional slot AND move only once. Accordingly, I know a lot of people who just bite the bullet and do preliminary medicine, for example, because moving once it bad enough. Moving twice within 13 months is a gigantic pain.
 
Repeationg the word of caution. T-year programs, due to their cushness, are regarded as more competitive than Derm/Rad Onc/Optho themselves.
 
Repeationg the word of caution. T-year programs, due to their cushness, are regarded as more competitive than Derm/Rad Onc/Optho themselves.

I don't think TYs are as competitive as derm/rad onc. Most people that are solid applicants for a ROAD specialty applying to 20 will be just fine.

That being said, I don't think they offer you the best training compared to other options. I'm doing prelim surgery instead.
 
I don't think TYs are as competitive as derm/rad onc. Most people that are solid applicants for a ROAD specialty applying to 20 will be just fine.

That being said, I don't think they offer you the best training compared to other options. I'm doing prelim surgery instead.

Straight from the words of my Dean. He would know. He matched 8/8 kids into RadOnc, and 10/10 into Derm, and comments that he worries most about their t-years. True 20 (not 10) should be fine, but remember, you are almost exclusively competing against those "solid applicants for a ROAD specialty."
 
Straight from the words of my Dean. He would know. He matched 8/8 kids into RadOnc, and 10/10 into Derm, and comments that he worries most about their t-years. True 20 (not 10) should be fine, but remember, you are almost exclusively competing against those "solid applicants for a ROAD specialty."

The problem you're running into there is most likely people who are applying to only NYC, Boston, or SF TY programs. That's probably not going to cut it. I feel like if all you want is a cush TY regardless of location you could easily match into some of the community TY programs in the Midwest or south. I don't think programs like riverside in columbus, gundersen in la crosse, or st lukes/st joes in milwaukee are all that competitive.

My biggest issue with TYs is that you're essentially doing M3 again with a slightly higher degree of responsibility.
 
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