transitional year residency???

[yowhatup]

wat is a transitional year residency? and after completing one is it much easier to get into a top residency program?

and how hard is it to gain admission into a top notch transitional year residency program?

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[MrBurns10]

A transitional year is a type of one year internship that is required prior to starting certain residencies. You wouldn't do a transitional year unless you apply to one of the residencies that require a prelim year (such as radiology, ophthalmology, anesthesiology, etc). It's a competitive internship year because it's cushier than a medicine or surgical prelim year (you rotate through different services with less call and more elective time). The step 1 average for transitional years is between 230-235.

 

[JeffLebowski]

wat is a transitional year residency? and after completing one is it much easier to get into a top residency program?

and how hard is it to gain admission into a top notch transitional year residency program?

As I understand it, people do a transitional year for 2 reasons:
1) they need a prelim. year for their categorical spot
2) they need another year and so they opt for an undesignated internship year where they'll have another opportunity to rotate through several services in order to make that decision

 

[Uegis]

Transitional year is the PGY-1 year for optho, rads, derm, and rad onc (though anyone can apply, they are the ones who get it) You are essentially a medical student again, rotating through peds, OB, gyn, FP, medicine etc. for a year. It is considered the most posh of the PGY-1 positions available (compared to medicine or surgery preliminary years). That said, most are impossible to get unless you have stellar stats.

Just to prove my point, check out this list of people who got into Santa Clara Valley Medical Center's transitional program. Mind-boggling!

http://www.sccgov.org/SCC/docs/Sant...nter (DEP)/attachments/TRANSITIONAL_Jul08.pdf

 

[Law2Doc]

Transitional year is the PGY-1 year for optho, rads, derm, and rad onc (though anyone can apply, they are the ones who get it) You are essentially a medical student again, rotating through peds, OB, gyn, FP, medicine etc. for a year. It is considered the most posh of the PGY-1 positions available (compared to medicine or surgery preliminary years). That said, most are impossible to get unless you have stellar stats.

Just to clarify though, most folks who go into these fields do a prelim year in medicine or surgery, not a transitional year, so I disagree with the poster above who said a transitional year is "required prior to starting certain residencies". It isn't. Usually a prelim year is the norm for these. Transitional years are perhaps more desirable for this (1) because they are often easier schedules, (2) they are competitive because a lot of folks who match into competitive fields are fighting for them, and (3) they are ideal for folks who haven't yet decided on their ultimate field and are still going to apply, because they let you still try new things.

 

[Uegis]

Just to clarify though, most folks who go into these fields do a prelim year in medicine or surgery, not a transitional year, so I disagree with the poster above who said a transitional year is "required prior to starting certain residencies". It isn't. Usually a prelim year is the norm for these. Transitional years are perhaps more desirable for this (1) because they are often easier schedules, (2) they are competitive because a lot of folks who match into competitive fields are fighting for them, and (3) they are ideal for folks who haven't yet decided on their ultimate field and are still going to apply, because they let you still try new things.

Agreed on all points. I am not even going to bother applying for a transitional year. Straight med prelim for me.

 

[Pewl]

There are also competitive residency programs that have required built-in prelim years too, right? And in that case you wouldn't apply to a transitional year, right?

I know that UPenn's rad onc and Michigan's rad onc both have required "categorical" (i think it's called that?) prelim years.

 

[Law2Doc]

There are also competitive residency programs that have required built-in prelim years too, right? And in that case you wouldn't apply to a transitional year, right?

I know that UPenn's rad onc and Michigan's rad onc both have required "categorical" (i think it's called that?) prelim years.

I'm not sure you have this right. I don't know about these program specificlly but generally you apply for both the specialty and the preliminary years seperately and generally "categorical" means "not preliminary". If the prelim year is built in, you are still not categorical in medicine.

 

[Pewl]

I'm not sure you have this right. I don't know about these program specificlly but generally you apply for both the specialty and the preliminary years seperately and generally "categorical" means "not preliminary". If the prelim year is built in, you are still not categorical in medicine.

Ah, gotcha.

So you mean there are essentially 3 types?
1) Transitional year
2) Preliminary year
3) Built in categorical year?

 

[Law2Doc]

Ah, gotcha.

So you mean there are essentially 3 types?
1) Transitional year
2) Preliminary year
3) Built in categorical year?

No. Change 3 to built in preliminary year. It is not categorical unless you are staying in IM for the long haul, I don't think.

 

[Pewl]

No. Change 3 to built in preliminary year. It is not categorical unless you are staying in IM for the long haul, I don't think.

Baha, ok, one more try.

1) Transitional year
2) Preliminary year
3) Built in preliminary year
4) Categorical year (applicable to IM residency only)?

 

[Law2Doc]

Baha, ok, one more try.

1) Transitional year
2) Preliminary year
3) Built in preliminary year
4) Categorical year (applicable to IM residency only)?

I think you can be categorical in surgery as well. Not sure if their are others. Basically any of the fields that can either be prelim for something else or not.

 

[cubsrule4e]

There are also competitive residency programs that have required built-in prelim years too, right? And in that case you wouldn't apply to a transitional year, right?

I know that UPenn's rad onc and Michigan's rad onc both have required "categorical" (i think it's called that?) prelim years.

Ophtho, for example, has a few programs which have special intern years built into the residency designed to be geared more towards what they think you should be learning. If you matched at one of these programs you would automatically get an intern year there as well. However, since you obviously dont know where youll match, you still have to go through the prelim year match in case you end up at a program that doesnt have this kind of set up.

 

[UnderdogMD]

So Postgraduate training programs are categorized as P, C, or A.

1 (P): P means preliminary. PGY-1 positions that usually last for a year. Can be internal medicine, surgery, or transitional.

2 (C): C means categorical. Begin training PGY-1 year and usually last 3-4 years. Specialties such as internal medicine, gynecology, pediatrics, ect are categorical. A few specialties such as derm, anesthesiology, and rads usually have a few categorical spots but these are usually more competitive.

3 (A): A means advanced. Begin training PGY-2 year so these require a preliminary program. Specialties such as anesthesiology, rads, and derm are usually advanced positions. When you apply to match you apply for both advanced positions and preliminary positions at the same time.

 

[Trooth]

yep you usually match both at the same match cycle so TY doesnt help matching into your advanced program.

 

[Pewl]

So Postgraduate training programs are categorized as P, C, or A.

1 (P): P means preliminary. PGY-1 positions that usually last for a year. Can be internal medicine, surgery, or transitional.

2 (C): C means categorical. Begin training PGY-1 year and usually last 3-4 years. Specialties such as internal medicine, gynecology, pediatrics, ect are categorical. A few specialties such as derm, anesthesiology, and rads usually have a few categorical spots but these are usually more competitive.

3 (A): A means advanced. Begin training PGY-2 year so these require a preliminary program. Specialties such as anesthesiology, rads, and derm are usually advanced positions. When you apply to match you apply for both advanced positions and preliminary positions at the same time.

Based on this outline, then, are most rad onc spots Advanced? I think you begin training in most during PGY-2.

 

[UnderdogMD]

Based on this outline, then, are most rad onc spots Advanced? I think you begin training in most during PGY-2.

Yes Radiation Oncology is an advanced position starting PGY-2. This means that you also apply to preliminary programs at the same time for PGY-1.

There are a very small number of categorical positions for Radiation Oncology. I believe there were 15 in 2008. So obviously those were very competitive.

 

[Pewl]

Yes Radiation Oncology is an advanced position starting PGY-2. This means that you also apply to preliminary programs at the same time for PGY-1.

There are a very small number of categorical positions for Radiation Oncology. I believe there were 15 in 2008. So obviously those were very competitive.

Is there some benefit or desirability to getting a categorical position that I'm just not seeing, here? From what I've heard, many of those categorical positions are rather tough. Wouldn't most people entering a tough specialty like rad onc or derm rather do a a prelim or transitional year elsewhere?

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

Is there some benefit or desirability to getting a categorical position that I'm just not seeing, here? From what I've heard, many of those categorical positions are rather tough. Wouldn't most people entering a tough specialty like rad onc or derm rather do a a prelim or transitional year elsewhere?

Maybe its nicer to not have to move twice?

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Maybe its nicer to not have to move twice?

That's a big one. Also, some of them try to sweeten the deal by decreasing your "floor work" months and call. It's nowhere near as cushy as the cushiest TYs, but it's still a step up from many "general" Prelim years.

 

[njbmd]

Many specialties such as anesthesia, rads, derm or optho will start at the PGY-2 level and thus will require some kind of preliminary year. Some people elect to do a transitional year, some elect to do a prelim med or surgery year.

Categorical PGY-1 years mean that you are expected to complete all of the required residency years in that program. For medicine and surgery, they are the most desirable positions to obtain. All residency contracts are year to year whether transitional, categorical or prelim and thus, some degree of performance level is expected for renewal in the case of categorical slots.

Many people will end up doing a non-designated prelim year because they were not able to match into a categorical slot for medicine or surgery. This means that at the end of that prelim year, they must re-enter the match or secure a categorical slot outside of the match in order to complete residency.

If you are entering a specialty such as anesthesia, rad-onc, rad, derm or optho, a transitional year makes good sense since you get to rotate from service to service with plenty of electives (can be done in your specialty if desired).

Those folks who are entering ENT, neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery or urology will do a designated preliminary year in surgery. Some optho or anesthesia folks will also do a designated prelim year in surgery. This means that once you are done with your PGY-1 year, you move into your C-1 year in whatever specialty you have been designated in.

The downside to doing a transitional year is that you have to interview for both your transitional year and your residency program (expensive and time-consuming).

 

[tkim]

So Postgraduate training programs are categorized as P, C, or A.

1 (P): P means preliminary. PGY-1 positions that usually last for a year. Can be internal medicine, surgery, or transitional.

Actually, the "P" in PGY stands for "Post", as is Post Grad Year.

 

[UnderdogMD]

Actually, the "P" in PGY stands for "Post", as is Post Grad Year.

I know that the "P" in PGY stands for "Post."

The "P" I mentioned was referring to the 3 type of postgraduate training the NRMP offers: "P"-Preliminary, "A"-Advanced, and "C"-Categorical.

 

[tkim]

I know that the "P" in PGY stands for "Post."

The "P" I mentioned was referring to the 3 type of postgraduate training the NRMP offers: "P"-Preliminary, "A"-Advanced, and "C"-Categorical.

Just reread your post. My bad.

 

[yeasterbunny]

There are also competitive residency programs that have required built-in prelim years too, right? And in that case you wouldn't apply to a transitional year, right?

I know that UPenn's rad onc and Michigan's rad onc both have required "categorical" (i think it's called that?) prelim years.

Both the programs you mentioned hae a reputation for being pretty rough. Emory I think likewise. Cleveland Clinic is reportedly tough but the residents there insist that they were glad they did it. Some programs like Wisconsin and Indiana and maybe others will offer one categorical spot and one advanced. Maybe one or two of the Cali programs. In those cases you just click both boxes on ERAS. There was a thread a while back on the rad onc board that had most of the categorical programs listed.

For the most part though, most of the rad onc programs are advanced. A couple, Mayo Jax comes to mind, will make it easy for you to do a TY interview the day of your rad onc interview. I think they even guarantee you a spot if you match there (but give you the option to rank it however you want).

I personally would have liked a categorical spot for the sake of buying a house a year sooner and getting one more year of equity out of it. Some people don't like where they are and want to leave a year sooner. Other people take the TY to move somewhere nice for a year. I got a TY in the same town as my med school so I still will only move once.

 

[sunset823]

sorry for reviving an old thread, but I've been wondering about this - everybody says that Transitional Years are very very difficult to obtain, and I can imagine that is true in desirable locations or those close to big name residency programs, but I noticed that in 2010 some programs in less desirable locations (grand rapids, southfield, detroit, mi, kettering, youngstown & akron, oh, pittsburgh, pa, knoxville, tn) did not fill in the match. I am a former Ohio and current Michigan native, and I would have no issue going to any of those places (it's only a year after all) if I end up matching in an advanced program (I'm currently interested in anesthesia).

So were those non-filled programs flukes, or do you really not need to be 250+ and AOA to match in a midwest TY program? (The other advantage is most of these will be easy driving distance from home for me, so it would save me a lot of money to apply to relatively uncompetitive TYs).

 

[MedGrl@2022]

sorry for reviving an old thread, but I've been wondering about this - everybody says that Transitional Years are very very difficult to obtain, and I can imagine that is true in desirable locations or those close to big name residency programs, but I noticed that in 2010 some programs in less desirable locations (grand rapids, southfield, detroit, mi, kettering, youngstown & akron, oh, pittsburgh, pa, knoxville, tn) did not fill in the match. I am a former Ohio and current Michigan native, and I would have no issue going to any of those places (it's only a year after all) if I end up matching in an advanced program (I'm currently interested in anesthesia).

So were those non-filled programs flukes, or do you really not need to be 250+ and AOA to match in a midwest TY program? (The other advantage is most of these will be easy driving distance from home for me, so it would save me a lot of money to apply to relatively uncompetitive TYs).

Is transitional year different from traditional rotating residency?

Thanks!

 

[Dral]

Is transitional year different from traditional rotating residency?

Thanks!

Both are PGY-1



Transitional is for MD (and I suppose DO)

Trad. Rotating YEAR (TRY) is for DOs.

 

[FattySlug]

Questions:
So when I apply for residency says anesthesiology, I have to apply for both prelim/transitional year and the advanced residency separately right? So you have to go to 2 interviews? And what if I get matched into advanced residency but not into prelim? How hard is it to get a prelim year? Thanks.

 

[DermViser]

Questions:
So when I apply for residency says anesthesiology, I have to apply for both prelim/transitional year and the advanced residency separately right? So you have to go to 2 interviews? And what if I get matched into advanced residency but not into prelim? How hard is it to get a prelim year? Thanks.

Was it necessary to bump up a 6 year old thread for something a Google search or an SDN search could have helped with?

To answer your questions:
1) Yes, you apply for an intern year (whether transitional or prelim) at the same time you apply for anesthesiology.
2) Yes, you usually have to go to 2 separate interviews as they are not connected, unless it's a 4 year categorical Anesthesiology residency that includes that year.
3) If you match residency but not prelim, then you have to SOAP into an internship.
4) It's not difficult to get a prelim but make sure you go on enough interviews to match into a prelim.