Trauma Surgery

[adonis121089]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I'm new to the forums, but I decided I'd start off my first thread straight to the point with a question that's been bothering me. I'm looking at trauma surgery ultimately - I originally considered emergency medicine but have come to realize that trauma surgery has some of the more hands-on, intensive aspects I'd enjoy. Nevertheless, I've heard some unsettling things: cf:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=32855


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=609418&highlight=trauma+surgeon


http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=189393

(my BF is a fellow and when he's on trauma service I never see him, he doesn't eat or sleep. they have enough penetrating trauma to keep them busy)."


to name just a few.

Obviously some of the statements are hyperbolic, but still, as one looking at a potential career in trauma surgery, I am wondering: are the touted 60+ hour work weeks a necessity? Is it possible to enter the field and keep work to a more balanced high 30s low 40s kind of week? Also, though less pertinently, is Trauma Surgery as much a "dying field" as many are saying?

Thanks in advance for the replies!

 

[SocialistMD]

I'm new to the forums ... I'm looking at trauma surgery ultimately ...
...are the touted 60+ hour work weeks a necessity?Is it possible to enter the field and keep work to a more balanced high 30s low 40s kind of week? Also, though less pertinently, is Trauma Surgery as much a "dying field" as many are saying?

Yes, yes you are new to the forums, and likely new to the field as well. 🙂
To answer your last question first, trauma is one of the two surgical fields (the other being plastics) that will never die; people will always be stupid and people will always be vain.

To answer your first questions, 60-hour work weeks are the low end of the spectrum, especially in trauma. Best case scenario (as a trauma attending), you are doing shift work; 12 hour shifts for 7 days in a row. If your group is large enough, you get an "academic week" to recover where you work closer to 50-60 hours a week of office work, backup trauma call and elective operations. If you find yourself working in a smaller group, you may be on in-house call every 3rd to 4th night.

To hope for a surgical career with a 30s to 40s kind of week is all but a pipe-dream.

 

[adonis121089]

And if it was such a shift week with 12 hours a day for seven days in a row - what would the next week look like?

 

[SocialistMD]

And if it was such a shift week with 12 hours a day for seven days in a row - what would the next week look like?

Like I said, it depends on your group size. At some places you'd rotate to nights, some places you'd be backup call during the days, do elective cases (meaning your OR day starts at 7:30 and ends at 5:30), clinic (anywhere from 8:30-9:00 start until 4:30-5:00 end), academic time where you are working in your lab (if you have one) or clinical projects, attending in the ICU (which many trauma surgeons do as well and which have similar, shift-work hours).

In the end, surgery isn't a 40-hour/week career, and it really isn't a 60-hour/week one, either, even when you average out your "on" weeks with your "off" weeks.

 

[Winged Scapula]

As the former SO of a trauma surgeon, I can tell you that much of what is written is NOT hyperbole. 60 hours/week would be an easy week for almost any surgical practice, especially during training.

SocialistMD notes that the hours worked and the schedule will vary from practice to practice and the environment. My ex works 1 academic week per month with trauma call q6 (and back up trauma call q6, or q3 overall); no trauma call free weeks. One week per month as SICU attending. One week per month on Gen Surg call. Some weeks he may work very little and others he may never leave the hospital. The vast majority of time he works about 10-12 hr days, with overnight call on trauma every few nights.

If you work at a true knife and gun club (he does not but trained at one) you may work many many more hours and have more responsibilities (ie, no academic week).

 

[ESU_MD]

the longer I spend in medicine, The idea of working 40-50 hrs a week is very appealing.

i see some ads in the back of the journals advertising these dream jobs. 400k, alot of time off, limited hours. but i have to think they are all pipe dreams.

all though, If i get burnt out some more, maybe I will call and check them out personally

 

[maceo]

ask yourself this.. at 50 years old. DO you want to take call in house in a (f word expletive) county hospital that has hard beds cold rooms and hospital food eveyr few nights. That isnt a life. Thats just torture. might as well committ suicide now. seriously. SOunds glamorous now, trust me the more you start spending time in a hospital the more you DONT wanna spend time in a hosptal. and for what.. your 200k with benefits. Your counterparts in derm , rads, rad onc, GI, make twice what you make and guess what .. they sleep in their 1500 dollar mattress every night.

 

[flashman]

It seems there is a lot of speculation about this so I thought I would pass along my experience. I am a curent surgical critical care fellow and interviewed at three jobs in the areas I wished to work (Midwest). I found these jobs:

a) work 6 calls (5p-7a) on for general and trauma and one week of days attending in ICU and on call for trauma each month. Level 1, academic afffiliation/community hospital, salary $350

b) work 8 calls (24 hrs) on call for trauma and no doc general surgery, level 1, academic affiliation/community hospital, salary $350

c) work 3 weeks, on call Q 3 during that time for new traumas, ICU consults, and general surgery (but only during day--different people at night for gen surg) and on call all 3 weeks for your patients, then 2 weeks completely off-no rounding or beeper. Level 2, not academic, salary 350 + production which equals 100-200 for other partners.

I was offered all three. There are many good trauma jobs out there and most seem to offer shift type work and flat salaries. Obviously academics seem less. One big academic place I know offers ~200.

If you are curious the places to see the offers yourself are aast.org or east.org in the jobs section.

It is true though as the other poster mentioned: with trauma you will always be the guy in there in the middle of the night, even 30 yrs from now. Still, there does seem to be a option to work straight critical care, jobs I've heard of are typically working 2 weeks out of 4 with 7 days of 12h nights and 7 days of 12h days.

Also, all jobs seem to be moving towards acute care surgery: when you on you cover for ICU/trauma and emergency general surgery.


My 2 cents