trend for low sat scores

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korndoctor

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if you guys got low verbal scores (somewhere in 500), is it possible to improve and how did you guys improve to get a great verbal score on mcats?

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verbal on mcat and verbal on sat are totally different.
 
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How the hell do you score a 500 on the SAT Verbal?????? Are you a native speaker??? I see a 7 or 8 on the MCAT VR section in your future.
 
did you score perfectly or something?
No, I didn't do perfectly, but I am sure scored higher than that (it's been too long ago (1998) for me to even remember what I got). I'm sure you could randomly guess and pull above a 500. Wasn't the joke that you receive 300 pts for spelling your own name correctly?
 
I have several friends that received pretty low scores on their SAT but actually prepared and studied for the MCAT and got above 30.
 
500 on a single section is above the 50 percentile... i think it requires a lot more than just writing your own name
 
200 = writing your own name. I believe the average is supposed to be around 1000, so 500 seems like it would be an average verbal score (based on the old max 1600). Nothing official to back any of this up, just what I seem to remember. I'm sure you can google it.
 
ACT reading section is a much better guestimate of your abilities.
 
Is there any correlation between SAT verbal and MCAT verbal? I did well on verbal, but messed up math (650). Funny thing is that I tend to do much better in my math classes than my english classes.
 
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Is there any correlation between SAT verbal and MCAT verbal? I did well on verbal, but messed up math (650). Funny thing is that I tend to do much better in my math classes than my english classes.
I'm not sure if the SAT verbal and MCAT verbal can correlate well since they require different skills.

My SAT and GRE scores were almost identical, though.
 
I always figured the verbal sections on the (old) SAT and MCAT were very similar except for level of difficulty---i.e the SAT was geared for high schoolers and the MCAT for college students, but that to do well on either depended on the same set of skills. That's just my impression. I figure if you don't do well on the SAT verbal, or don't do well on verbal in general, plan on doing a lot of reading to improve your MCAT verbal. It's completely doable but it takes more than a few weeks' cramming.
 
I wouldn't say the verbal MCAT is any harder than the verbal SAT, the only difference is the curve. The verbal MCAT has a ridiculously steep curve, so steep in fact that in past years a perfect score could only be a 13 out of 15. The AAMC's finally changed that policy, but still, 1 question wrong on the MCAT verbal gets you a 14 max, 2 questions a 13 most likely. Meanwhile, you can get 1 or 2 questions wrong on the SAT (out of a similar number of questions I believe...) and still get an 800. On the MCAT you're not really competing against the test-makers, but the test-takers. And that makes a relatively easy section like verbal relatively very difficult to get a high score, and a relatively difficult section like the physical sciences relatively easy to get one. All I can say is that for verbal it's a lot harder to get a 15 on the MCAT than an 800 on the SAT.
 
200 = writing your own name. I believe the average is supposed to be around 1000, so 500 seems like it would be an average verbal score (based on the old max 1600). Nothing official to back any of this up, just what I seem to remember. I'm sure you can google it.

You're ignoring the difference between populations taking the exam.

The "average" SAT score is the average of every high school senior taking the exam. This will include a few smart kids, and a whole bunch of way less smart kids, including those who will never make it into undergrad.

The "average" MCAT score is the average of college graduates (or soon-to-be graduates) seeking a career in medicine, which is definetely a more intelligent, better test-taking population than those taking the SAT.

In other words:
average MCAT score = pretty darn good
average SAT score = wow, have you looked into managerial training at Burger King?
 
You're ignoring the difference between populations taking the exam.

The "average" SAT score is the average of every high school senior taking the exam. This will include a few smart kids, and a whole bunch of way less smart kids, including those who will never make it into undergrad.

The "average" MCAT score is the average of college graduates (or soon-to-be graduates) seeking a career in medicine, which is definetely a more intelligent, better test-taking population than those taking the SAT.

In other words:
average MCAT score = pretty darn good
average SAT score = wow, have you looked into managerial training at Burger King?


true... I bet very few people below 1200s or 25s on the SAT/ACT even attempt the MCAT...
 
You're ignoring the difference between populations taking the exam.

The "average" SAT score is the average of every high school senior taking the exam. This will include a few smart kids, and a whole bunch of way less smart kids, including those who will never make it into undergrad.

The "average" MCAT score is the average of college graduates (or soon-to-be graduates) seeking a career in medicine, which is definetely a more intelligent, better test-taking population than those taking the SAT.

In other words:
average MCAT score = pretty darn good
average SAT score = wow, have you looked into managerial training at Burger King?
The average college-bound senior had a 503 in Verbal in 2006. Jeez. Maybe they won't all go to med school, but I just bet some people have gone on to have successful careers (maybe even in medicine!). People can improve and change during college, and a score a high schooler achieved does not determine how successful they will be in life.

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2006/table2-mean-SAT-scores.pdf
 
The average college-bound senior had a 503 in Verbal in 2006

I stand corrected. The OP is of questionable intellect for doubting him/herself because he/she is merely average.
 
The average college-bound senior had a 503 in Verbal in 2006. Jeez. Maybe they won't all go to med school, but I just bet some people have gone on to have successful careers (maybe even in medicine!). People can improve and change during college, and a score a high schooler achieved does not determine how successful they will be in life.

Great, another, "You can do it, just try really hard!" post.

So let's test your theory then.

Anyone out there with a 500s Verbal SAT score and a 10 or higher on the MCAT Verbal?

Anyone out there with a 500s Verbal SAT now in med school or with a med school acceptance?

Oh, and just to up the anxiety level a little more, during one of my Ortho interviews, I was asked what my SAT scores were, and the interviewer wrote it down in my file.
 
true... I bet very few people below 1200s or 25s on the SAT/ACT even attempt the MCAT...

well those are 2 different percentile ranges there. at least when I appled, the average SAT at UMich was only in the 1200s. (a 25 is pretty much a rejection though)

edit: now that I look at my most, I'm not quite sure that I have a point.
 
The clever thing about the SAT is that 500 is scaled to the average score, with each 100 point difference being a standard deviation. Thus, 99.7% of scores fall within 3 standard deviations of the mean, and only .15% score 800 or 200.

I think the SAT verbal score is a fairly good indicator of MCAT verbal performance, although the MCAT verbal is markedly harder. Both can be improved upon. However, I think it's much easier to improve upon the SAT verbal, where upping your vocabulary memorization can seriously improve your score, whereas for the MCAT verbal a lot of the improvement will have to do with your comprehension skills.

Best of luck!

~Silk and Steel
 
Great, another, "You can do it, just try really hard!" post.

So let's test your theory then.

Anyone out there with a 500s Verbal SAT score and a 10 or higher on the MCAT Verbal?

Anyone out there with a 500s Verbal SAT now in med school or with a med school acceptance?

Oh, and just to up the anxiety level a little more, during one of my Ortho interviews, I was asked what my SAT scores were, and the interviewer wrote it down in my file.
I'm really sure we have a significant sample size reading this thread. 🙄

I'm not saying anything other than statistics are for a population, not individuals. I doubt there's even a statistic you could quote however for this question. All I am saying is, nothing's impossible. If I had gotten a 500 on the verbal (which doesn't preclude me from a decent SAT with a good math score) and I really wanted to be a doctor, I'd try my luck and see how I did in college. Obviously, if my GPA sucked, I couldn't do it. If I matured and did well, however, I don't see any reason I couldn't do decently on the verbal. Hell, people have gotten into med school (especially DO's, no offense) with scores of 7 or even lower.

My point is, college matriculants average a 503 verbal, so a verbal of 500 is just that -- average. There are people who perform average or worse in high school who end up excelling in college. Excellence in college lealds to med school, not high school.
 
I did very well on both my SAT verbal (760) and my MCAT verbal (13). I don't think that's what the OP wanted to hear, but I certainly believe that both can be improved upon. A lot of doing well on MCAT verbal (for me at least) was keeping focused/concentrated on the passage. It doesn't rely on memorization and prior knowledge like the SAT does.
All of that being said, if you just took the SAT/are not in college yet, you should not be worrying about the MCAT at this point. Enjoy high school and your first few years of college, then study hard.
 
so the concensus is that if your sat scores are below 1200 you shouldnt attempt the mcats... i am just a tad bit confused because most colleges (lets just use my state school umass for example) have average sat scores below 1200 and over 50% of those kids in my general bio/chem/physics class are premed and arent in the honors program so their sat scores are around average about 1100. can someone shed some light here.

so if i was an average test taker (around 1200sat) in high school, how should i be prepping to score above average on the mcats? i didnt take a prep course in high school so that is one thing i can consider. any other thoughts?
 
so the concensus is that if your sat scores are below 1200 you shouldnt attempt the mcats... i am just a tad bit confused because most colleges (lets just use my state school umass for example) have average sat scores below 1200 and over 50% of those kids in my general bio/chem/physics class are premed and arent in the honors program so their sat scores are around average about 1100. can someone shed some light here.

Yup. Most of that 50% will not actually be going to medical school, despite calling themselves pre-meds now.

For practical advice I'd suggest reading high level material analytically - doesn't matter what the subject is, and of course test prep and practice can help too.
 
<sigh>

Listen, you really need to look up "selection bias" and get a handle on its meaning. Despite your trouble using punctuation, let's break down each portion of what you said.

so the concensus is that if your sat scores are below 1200 you shouldnt attempt the mcats...

No, the thread revolved around the correlation or lack thereof between the SAT and MCAT Verbal sections. No one said don't take a crack at it.

i am just a tad bit confused because most colleges (lets just use my state school umass for example) have average sat scores below 1200

Yes.

and over 50% of those kids in my general bio/chem/physics class are premed and arent in the honors program so their sat scores are around average about 1100.

Here's where you fall apart.

1) Your Honors program has an SAT cutoff, whereby everyone with an SAT over 1100-1200 is in it, and everyone under that is not? I'm guessing no, but let's say that's true.

2) You're just plain guessing at their average SAT score. I'm willing to bet it's a little higher than you're assuming.

3) All those premeds won't get in. Many will change their mind and not even apply. Others will get bounced out of premed when their orgo grade comes back a C-. And a few will leave school when their drug problem takes over their lives. Therefore the average SAT score of the premeds in your classes is not the average SAT of those taking the MCAT, and is even further from the average SAT score of those who are accepted to med school.
 
There is no trend.

Read a book....now!

You can thank me later.
-Dr. P.
 
true... I bet very few people below 1200s or 25s on the SAT/ACT even attempt the MCAT...

I'm one of those few. I got just below...drumroll...1000. This is on the old SAT, not the new one. Is the SAT really that easy that people are expected to get very good scores and if one doesn't they aren't expected to attempt post grad professions like medicine? I know that's not what you said in your post, but I read it as if you were implying that. I happen to be doing just fine in college and will be taking the MCAT sometime in the future.
 
true... I bet very few people below 1200s or 25s on the SAT/ACT even attempt the MCAT...

I only scored an 1130 on the SAT; however, I went on to perform well in college and on the MCAT. I just was not too concerned with academics at the time.
 
whoever said 500 is a crappy has obviously had a bad day. 500 is average. Anyways, the MCAT=/=SAT so don't worry, as long as you practice and work on reading skills. These tests don't necessarily test you smart you are (or how good of a doctor you are), they test how good you are at taking the test.
 
No, I didn't do perfectly, but I am sure scored higher than that (it's been too long ago (1998) for me to even remember what I got). I'm sure you could randomly guess and pull above a 500. Wasn't the joke that you receive 300 pts for spelling your own name correctly?

Ok I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking that you were being sarcastic, but this is just wrong.

And to go bashing someone when you are not only wrong, but can't remember a single number? Dude, 🙄
 
Here's my correlation:

SAT (old) Verbal: 700

MCAT Verbal: 9

In my example it's a pretty terrible correlation. 700 was well above 90th percentile for my SAT (I think) and my MCAT verbal was almost average.

You might find some correlation, but it's certainly not strong. The tests are different. The old SAT had analogies/definitions and other types of questions (which was the stuff that I was good at). The MCAT is just reading passages (which apparently I am average at). So you can't really compare the two perfectly.
 
whoever said 500 is a crappy has obviously had a bad day. 500 is average. Anyways, the MCAT=/=SAT so don't worry, as long as you practice and work on reading skills. These tests don't necessarily test you smart you are (or how good of a doctor you are), they test how good you are at taking the test.

No offense to anyone, OP included, but average is pretty crappy. There are a lot of very stupid people out there, especially in high school.

I have also found some sources showing the correlation between MCAT and SAT/ACT

CONCLUSIONS: The students' SAT scores and GPAs proved to be statistically reliable predictors of MCAT scores, but the minority or majority status and the transfer or nontransfer status of the students were statistically insignificant.
http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/montague001.htm

A strong correlation exists between the total MCAT score and the total SAT score ...The Physical Sciences and Verbal Reasoning subsection of the MCAT correlated well with the Math and Verbal subsection of the SAT.
http://www.naahp.org/abstract_four.htm

Some other facts... SAT has a strong correlation with critical thinking skills. MCAT, of all of the standardized tests has the lowest correlation with critical thinking skills (although still a moderate one at .4)

All this means is that you may be at a disadvantage for the verbal MCAT but if you improve your VR skills, you could do well. Read more.
 
yes thats true but think about it...if a person has an SAT above 1300 and didnt get into honors program at a state school where the average sat score is around 1100 would be ridiculous...so what you are saying is that only honors students should apply to med school? also does not taking a prep course for sat affect your scores? any correlations there?

what materials would improve reading? would you suggest scientific american because that is what i am subcribing to as of now
 
My original verbal was 600 SAT.
1st Mcat 9 Verbal.
2nd Mact 13 Verbal.

The deciding factor: Practice!
 
yes thats true but think about it...if a person has an SAT above 1300 and didnt get into honors program at a state school where the average sat score is around 1100 would be ridiculous...so what you are saying is that only honors students should apply to med school? also does not taking a prep course for sat affect your scores? any correlations there?

what materials would improve reading? would you suggest scientific american because that is what i am subcribing to as of now
The best way to improve is to practice, so read more passages and answer more questions.

EDIT: O ya, my SAT verbal was 700. My 1st MCAT verbal was a 4, lolz. I'm up to an 8 with a few days of practice.
 
whoever said 500 is a crappy has obviously had a bad day. 500 is average. Anyways, the MCAT=/=SAT so don't worry, as long as you practice and work on reading skills. These tests don't necessarily test you smart you are (or how good of a doctor you are), they test how good you are at taking the test.

Ding ding ding! Exactly.

There was a girl in my high school who was great at doing math competitions where the answers were supposed to be proofs. I sucked at those. She would always take top prizes in those, and I'd suck. Come time for multiple choice math competitions, I'd get the top prizes and she'd be out of luck. The thing is, on the proofs-based competitions, I was NOWHERE close to her, and on the multiple-choice competitions, she was NOWHERE close to me. You'd think that if either were wholly correlated with intelligence, at least we'd come close.

Test taking technique is everything. Especially on a test as stupid as the SAT. I don't generally believe that anyone can do anything with hard work, but the SAT and many other standardized tests might be an exception. Once you do the practice tests enough, you see a pattern, and it's all just so stupid. Anyway, end moral of the story: just practice a LOT and you can blow everyone away.
 
Do a lot of people study for the SAT? I always imagined it was a test that one just takes cold, perhaps I'm wrong about it. I suppose it never really mattered for me. I applied to one college and got into one college. Never had an ambition to go to any schools where I needed to do exceptionally well on the SAT. I'm pretty curious about all this. Some people in this thread appear to have some bad opinions i.e. high and mighty about the type of people who do well and who don't.
 
Do a lot of people study for the SAT? I always imagined it was a test that one just takes cold, perhaps I'm wrong about it. I suppose it never really mattered for me. I applied to one college and got into one college. Never had an ambition to go to any schools where I needed to do exceptionally well on the SAT. I'm pretty curious about all this. Some people in this thread appear to have some bad opinions i.e. high and mighty about the type of people who do well and who don't.

Yeah, people study for the SAT the same way they study for the MCAT. Prep courses, review books, practice tests. It's the new America (or old China) where the test is the key to future success, and everything else is derivative.

I don't think that folks here have bad opinions about the type of people who do well and those who don't. I think we are judging intelligence and potential for future success based on people's scores. Is that fair? Probably not. But get used to it, because that's basically what the admissions process is.
 
On the old SAT I got a 1410 which is pretty good but on the MCAT a 30. The tests are really different obviously. Firstly, the MCAT does test science, knowing your bio and organic chem and physics seriously affects how quickly you can answer questions etc.

Secondly the curve, vitually everyone takes the SAT and many are stupid/unprepared so it is easier to do better percentage wise. The MCAT takers are self selecting in a sense (already been in college, choosing pe-med etc. so the curve is a steeper one because there is less chaff that just bomb the test). Also on the verbal section of the SAT you can still miss questions and get a perfect score. I got a 790 verbal and I know I missed about 4 questions. I've taken the LSAT as well and the ACT for the Duke search back in 6th grade and I definitely think the MCAT is the hardest (or at least most knowledge intensive) of all the standardized tests.
 
I wouldn't say the verbal MCAT is any harder than the verbal SAT, the only difference is the curve. The verbal MCAT has a ridiculously steep curve, so steep in fact that in past years a perfect score could only be a 13 out of 15. The AAMC's finally changed that policy, but still, 1 question wrong on the MCAT verbal gets you a 14 max, 2 questions a 13 most likely. Meanwhile, you can get 1 or 2 questions wrong on the SAT (out of a similar number of questions I believe...) and still get an 800. On the MCAT you're not really competing against the test-makers, but the test-takers. And that makes a relatively easy section like verbal relatively very difficult to get a high score, and a relatively difficult section like the physical sciences relatively easy to get one. All I can say is that for verbal it's a lot harder to get a 15 on the MCAT than an 800 on the SAT.

I understand what your saying but I'm going to disagree with you that the verbal exams are the same level of difficulty. I did well on both but I feel that the MCAT verbal had questions which were less obvious and much more subtle than many of the SAT verbal questions.

so the concensus is that if your sat scores are below 1200 you shouldnt attempt the mcats... i am just a tad bit confused because most colleges (lets just use my state school umass for example) have average sat scores below 1200 and over 50% of those kids in my general bio/chem/physics class are premed and arent in the honors program so their sat scores are around average about 1100. can someone shed some light here.

You should take the MCAT regardless of your previous high school performance. As others have mentioned, you change in college, and you can *learn* this stuff and improve your score. Good high school students can become lousy college students and vice versa.

Also, most of your classmates in your premed courses will NOT be heading off to med school come graduation time. I believe the statistics are that ~90% of premed freshmen will NOT end up in med school. More that likely, many will decide medicine isn't for them, or that their grades are lacking, or they don't have the commitement for the long haul.

yes thats true but think about it...if a person has an SAT above 1300 and didnt get into honors program at a state school where the average sat score is around 1100 would be ridiculous...so what you are saying is that only honors students should apply to med school? also does not taking a prep course for sat affect your scores? any correlations there?

what materials would improve reading? would you suggest scientific american because that is what i am subcribing to as of now

I suggest reading newspapers like the new york times or wall street journal, and magazines like economist or newsweek....something that is not too dense but well written. I did that (b/c I'm a news junkie, not for the MCAT) and I did well on the MCAT verbal.

And I'm not sure anyone is saying that only honor students are allowed to take MCAT. Heck, my school didn't have a honors program, although I think honors programs are more common at large public universities and I went to a private university....Anyway, while the overall med school matriculant may have a higher overall SAT score, that doesn't mean someone who bombed their SAT cannot get into med school. At my state med school, while top tiered private school graduates are disproportionately represented and the rest are mostly made up of people who went to the state's flagship school, we also got people who were lousy students at onen point. One was a girl from a inner city high school graduate who went to college and evidently did pretty well. Another was this guy who flunked out of college with below a 3.0, then pulled his act together and went back to school and eventually got into med school.

Prep courses may help some people, but good study habits is what you really need to increase your test scores.

On the old SAT I got a 1410 which is pretty good but on the MCAT a 30. The tests are really different obviously. Firstly, the MCAT does test science, knowing your bio and organic chem and physics seriously affects how quickly you can answer questions etc.

Secondly the curve, vitually everyone takes the SAT and many are stupid/unprepared so it is easier to do better percentage wise. The MCAT takers are self selecting in a sense (already been in college, choosing pe-med etc. so the curve is a steeper one because there is less chaff that just bomb the test). Also on the verbal section of the SAT you can still miss questions and get a perfect score. I got a 790 verbal and I know I missed about 4 questions. I've taken the LSAT as well and the ACT for the Duke search back in 6th grade and I definitely think the MCAT is the hardest (or at least most knowledge intensive) of all the standardized tests.

Bingo. The self-selecting population for the MCAT makes the exam and the entire admissions process much harder than getting into college.
 
not as big of a correlation as you'd suspect.

i didnt study for the sats and got below 700 on verbal. i got a 13 on the mcat verbal.

the thing is, sat verbal is not all reading comp... i sucked at the analogies and sentence completions.... where as mcat is all reading comp.
 
580 on verbal
600 Math

MCAT: 14 Verbal
39 Overall

There was no correlation for me. Just follow the advice, read for the gist, and practice, practice, practice while understanding what you do wrong and right.

😉
 
Great, another, "You can do it, just try really hard!" post.

So let's test your theory then.

Anyone out there with a 500s Verbal SAT score and a 10 or higher on the MCAT Verbal?

Yes

Anyone out there with a 500s Verbal SAT now in med school or with a med school acceptance?

Yes

There are plenty of not so good test takers. I definitely made in the 500's for verbal and I made 10 (verbal)on MCAT. As a matter of fact I didn't even study for verbal because I wanted to improve more science sections. There are plenty of people like me, I know because they are in or have graduated med school!

I know people like to correlate SAT's to your future in life, but give me a break. There are CLEARLY no absolutes.

So, yes, try harder, become better test taker and maybe you can blow a 30+ MCAT.

Next...
 
Lets be serious...when I was a junior in high school, I just didn't give a **** about the SAT. I stayed up till midnight hanging out with friends the night before, never studied, and never even bought a study book. I answered every question on the stinking test, guessed blindly on some, and flat out didn't give a crap at the end. I knew I could probably score the 1200 I was shooting for. I didn't have a desire to apply to Harvard, (Believe it or not, a lot of people don't want to go to one of these schools) and knew I was bound for my state school.

To the OP, these people who are telling you that your verbal score is a reflection of you intelligence are the same people who joined math club, physics club, chess team, and stayed home on saturday nights to study extra hard for the SAT. They enjoy putting other people down because they are trying to make up for the inadequacies they face in their social life, and the regrets they have for having never kissed a girl or done something the least bit daring. Your SAT score has about as much functionality as a poopy popsicle once you are in College. Take the MCAT, study hard, and get into
medical school.

You know how much these scores matter once your in to medical school...zero. I would rather have my 28, with a 7 in verbal and an acceptance then a 750 SAT verbal, be a socially inept pre-med, and NOT get into medical school because I can't think on my own.
 
so, do you think your sat score represents your abilities? if so, read a lot. take humanities classes. work on it. or do you think you scored lower than you hoped because you're not a good test-taker, or you had a bad day, or...? in that case, work on your testing skills. when you get around to studying for the MCAT, take all the practice tests you can get your hands on. take a prep course if you think you need it. a few med schools might ask your sat/act scores, but it doesn't seem common for them to, in my (albeit somewhat limited) experience. my freshman year, my advisor told us to work on dropping everything from high school from our resume -- it doesn't matter anymore -- work on making your college years the best you can, because schools and/or jobs are most interested in your most recent work.
 
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