true of false

[ammarsfound]

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Hi,

I'm about to start down the road to dental school but I had a couple of doubts. Here are a *few* of the reasons that I have for going into dentistry (these are secondary reasons so I'm not basing my whole career on them, they are but important considerations nonetheless).


1) It is very unlikely that you will be unemployed as a dentist.

2) You will most likely cross the 200k barrier by the time you're 30 (assuming you take the standard dental education route).

3) For the most part, you won't have to deal with managed care as a dentist

4) You will have a good degree of free time to pursue other interests.

5) There is a shortage of dentists in certain areas. These areas are not very difficult to find. This is where the money is if you're going into private practice.

I was hoping a couple of dentists and/or dental students could weigh in and tell me if these statements were accurate?

Thanks!

 

[DrReo]

.

Hi,

I'm about to start down the road to dental school but I had a couple of doubts. Here are a *few* of the reasons that I have for going into dentistry (these are secondary reasons so I'm not basing my whole career on them, they are but important considerations nonetheless).


1) It is very unlikely that you will be unemployed as a dentist. F; depends where you ended up. You can be employed, but is that the job your really want?

2) You will most likely cross the 200k barrier by the time you're 30 (assuming you take the standard dental education route). T, especially with living expenses

3) For the most part, you won't have to deal with managed care as a dentist Who knows what will happen

4) You will have a good degree of free time to pursue other interests. Depends how much you need to work to pay off student loans. Just like anything, you have to manage your time. Dentist typically have favorable schedules...

5) There is a shortage of dentists in certain areas. These areas are not very difficult to find. This is where the money is if you're going into private practice. T,T, maybe

I was hoping a couple of dentists and/or dental students could weigh in and tell me if these statements were accurate? T 😀

Thanks!

 

[Ostracized]

Hi,

2) You will most likely cross the 200k barrier by the time you're 30 (assuming you take the standard dental education route).

Do you mean debt or income? Debt - most likely. Income - Possible but less likely.

 

[nextuszerodmd]

Do you mean debt or income? Debt - most likely. Income - Possible but less likely.

A lot of the dental students at my school think they would be making bank coming out. When I told them the average associate dentists can make anywhere from $80-$120k they were like "That's all?! I thought they made like $250k PLUS PLUS PLUS PLUS"....I just walked away and LOL...

 

[jay47]

A lot of the dental students at my school think they would be making bank coming out. When I told them the average associate dentists can make anywhere from $80-$120k they were like "That's all?! I thought they made like $250k PLUS PLUS PLUS PLUS"....I just walked away and LOL...

Very true- the only sure way to really make a lot of money is to own your own business!

 

[dl9006]

is 80-120k for an associate in an urban area?

is it uncommon for an associate in a rural area to make 150k?

im not expecting to make 200k+ income but mid 100s would be nice to pay off loans

 

[Mackchops]

The OP posted the exact questions on dentaltown... it's really interesting reading these responses (mostly naive students) and comparing them with those over on DT (mostly practicing dentists).

 

[DrReo]

The OP posted the exact questions on dentaltown... it's really interesting reading these responses (mostly naive students) and comparing them with those over on DT (mostly practicing dentists).

I've been attempting to find this thread since I'm curious what they say. Do you have a link?

 

[Blue Panther]

http://www.towniecentral.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=109&t=149827&v=1

 

[nextuszerodmd]

edited

 

[mrlantern]

1) It is very unlikely that you will be unemployed as a dentist.

2) You will most likely cross the 200k barrier by the time you're 30 (assuming you take the standard dental education route).

3) For the most part, you won't have to deal with managed care as a dentist

4) You will have a good degree of free time to pursue other interests.

5) There is a shortage of dentists in certain areas. These areas are not very difficult to find. This is where the money is if you're going into private practice.

1) Employment prospects for dentists are about average. Today, there is no such thing as a "secure" and "easily employable" job. Nationally, there already is a saturation of dentists. The reason why the media cries of a shortage is because of a lack of dentists in rural areas, which has always existed and is practically even in need of barbers, accountants, restaurants, gift shops, etc. This is occurring for the simple reason that no one wants to go live and work there. Rural or not, if you end up in private practice as a dentist, you are likely to be replaced if you cannot produce for your employer.

2) Most don't. It's not rare for a 30 yr old dentist to make over 200k/yr but it's not common either.

3) No. Most dentists nowadays accept insurance. My biggest headaches were the poor reimbursements from insurance plans. Due to poor reimbursements, I was negatively affected in terms of income and the service provided to patients because of my employers and I had to cut back on decent labwork and rush every dental procedure to make up for low fees.

4) Dentistry is usually a 9-6, 8-5, or maybe a 9-7 job at least 5 days a week. This is the average. Some work more. Some work less. Considering the average dentist, I don't see how you can have any more free time as opposed to being in another occupation.

5) Only in certain areas but these places generally have low-income families and getting a dental job may be "easier" there but not as easy as you think.

 

[PharmaTope]

1) Employment prospects for dentists are about average. Today, there is no such thing as a "secure" and "easily employable" job. Nationally, there already is a saturation of dentists. The reason why the media cries of a shortage is because of a lack of dentists in rural areas, which has always existed and is practically even in need of barbers, accountants, restaurants, gift shops, etc. This is occurring for the simple reason that no one wants to go live and work there. Rural or not, if you end up in private practice as a dentist, you are likely to be replaced if you cannot produce for your employer.

2) Most don't. It's not rare for a 30 yr old dentist to make over 200k/yr but it's not common either.

3) No. Most dentists nowadays accept insurance. My biggest headaches were the poor reimbursements from insurance plans. Due to poor reimbursements, I was negatively affected in terms of income and the service provided to patients because of my employers and I had to cut back on decent labwork and rush every dental procedure to make up for low fees.

4) Dentistry is usually a 9-6, 8-5, or maybe a 9-7 job at least 5 days a week. This is the average. Some work more. Some work less. Considering the average dentist, I don't see how you can have any more free time as opposed to being in another occupation.

5) Only in certain areas but these places generally have low-income families and getting a dental job may be "easier" there but not as easy as you think.

excellent realist post

 

[clarkbar]

1) Employment prospects for dentists are about average. Today, there is no such thing as a "secure" and "easily employable" job. Nationally, there already is a saturation of dentists. The reason why the media cries of a shortage is because of a lack of dentists in rural areas, which has always existed and is practically even in need of barbers, accountants, restaurants, gift shops, etc. This is occurring for the simple reason that no one wants to go live and work there. Rural or not, if you end up in private practice as a dentist, you are likely to be replaced if you cannot produce for your employer.

2) Most don't. It's not rare for a 30 yr old dentist to make over 200k/yr but it's not common either.

3) No. Most dentists nowadays accept insurance. My biggest headaches were the poor reimbursements from insurance plans. Due to poor reimbursements, I was negatively affected in terms of income and the service provided to patients because of my employers and I had to cut back on decent labwork and rush every dental procedure to make up for low fees.

4) Dentistry is usually a 9-6, 8-5, or maybe a 9-7 job at least 5 days a week. This is the average. Some work more. Some work less. Considering the average dentist, I don't see how you can have any more free time as opposed to being in another occupation.

5) Only in certain areas but these places generally have low-income families and getting a dental job may be "easier" there but not as easy as you think.

THis is at odds with the general wisdom, less graduates, more retirees, etc. However, general wisdom can be misleading. What do you think atones for your description?

 

[Drabuisa]

1) Employment prospects for dentists are about average. Today, there is no such thing as a "secure" and "easily employable" job. Nationally, there already is a saturation of dentists. The reason why the media cries of a shortage is because of a lack of dentists in rural areas, which has always existed and is practically even in need of barbers, accountants, restaurants, gift shops, etc. This is occurring for the simple reason that no one wants to go live and work there. Rural or not, if you end up in private practice as a dentist, you are likely to be replaced if you cannot produce for your employer.

2) Most don't. It's not rare for a 30 yr old dentist to make over 200k/yr but it's not common either.

3) No. Most dentists nowadays accept insurance. My biggest headaches were the poor reimbursements from insurance plans. Due to poor reimbursements, I was negatively affected in terms of income and the service provided to patients because of my employers and I had to cut back on decent labwork and rush every dental procedure to make up for low fees.

4) Dentistry is usually a 9-6, 8-5, or maybe a 9-7 job at least 5 days a week. This is the average. Some work more. Some work less. Considering the average dentist, I don't see how you can have any more free time as opposed to being in another occupation.

5) Only in certain areas but these places generally have low-income families and getting a dental job may be "easier" there but not as easy as you think.

This kind of talk borderline makes dentistry sound like a bad career move.

 

[UndergradGuy7]

This kind of talk borderline makes dentistry sound like a bad career move.

Agreed. Some of the responses in this thread and dentaltown sound depressing.

 

[yappy]

Just consider most other careers. In many careers I see that there are high paying, great job possibilities but they're rare. I think the same is true of dentistry... though I cannot say for sure because I'm not a dentist.

I wonder though, do you practicing dentists agree with the published ADA income averages? I think they said something like... average owner GP was around 200k? I ask this because it ties in with one of the OP's question.

I do worry about the debt load from dental school though...

 

[longhornpride]

A lot of the dental students at my school think they would be making bank coming out. When I told them the average associate dentists can make anywhere from $80-$120k they were like "That's all?! I thought they made like $250k PLUS PLUS PLUS PLUS"....I just walked away and LOL...

Are you exaggerating the lower end of the range? I understand many first year associates make around 80k based on production your first year, but with increased speed and more experience after the first year... I find it hard to believe an associate couldn't make 120k-130k soon after.

And if you've finished a GPR or AEGD and can't make 130k after 2 or 3 years... then you're either a bad dentist or you're getting taken advantage of.

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm still learning... but don't most associates get paid by either a production percentage (30-35%) or a daily minimum (I'm not sure but I read around 450-550??? Is this right?) I just find it hard to believe a dentist with a residency and 1 or 2 years of experience is still making 80-90k pre-taxes.

 

[dentalWorks]

Hi,

I'm about to start down the road to dental school but I had a couple of doubts. Here are a *few* of the reasons that I have for going into dentistry (these are secondary reasons so I'm not basing my whole career on them, they are but important considerations nonetheless).


1) It is very unlikely that you will be unemployed as a dentist.

2) You will most likely cross the 200k barrier by the time you're 30 (assuming you take the standard dental education route).

3) For the most part, you won't have to deal with managed care as a dentist

4) You will have a good degree of free time to pursue other interests.

5) There is a shortage of dentists in certain areas. These areas are not very difficult to find. This is where the money is if you're going into private practice.

I was hoping a couple of dentists and/or dental students could weigh in and tell me if these statements were accurate?

Thanks!

1) really depends. But in general, a dentist is more likely to find a job than say.... an engineer whos "over-qualified" with 20+ years of IT experience who just got laid off last week. Around here in the detroit area, when I bring this topic up to local dentists, they laugh at me and always suggests that there are plenty of jobs to go around.... I dunno how it is in other states / cities.

2) haha depends on when you start dental school. I'll be starting dental school 2 weeks before my 30th b.day. Im pretty sure im not gonna be clearing 200k anytime soon

3) you might

4) Some dentists are workaholics, they'll push 55+ hours per week in their private practices and work on saturdays. Others love to work only 3 days a week and have 4 day weekends. I guess it depends on how much debt you have and what kinda lifestyle you enjoy (Corvettes vs Honda Civics || house on a lake with a boat vs small suburban family home etc etc)

But the few dentists I know (including sister) work around 35 hrs per week while making a very generous income and plenty of time on their hands to enjoy life.

5) very hard to answer because not many people venture out of their big cities and move to rural settings. IMO, if there is a good population of people, then a dentistry office will work out (assuming you don't have alot of competition).... but then again you get into how many of that population is medicaid patients, HMOs, etc etc. Again, very difficult question to answer

 

[OceanDMD]

Are you exaggerating the lower end of the range? I understand many first year associates make around 80k based on production your first year, but with increased speed and more experience after the first year... I find it hard to believe an associate couldn't make 120k-130k soon after.

And if you've finished a GPR or AEGD and can't make 130k after 2 or 3 years... then you're either a bad dentist or you're getting taken advantage of.

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm still learning... but don't most associates get paid by either a production percentage (30-35%) or a daily minimum (I'm not sure but I read around 450-550??? Is this right?) I just find it hard to believe a dentist with a residency and 1 or 2 years of experience is still making 80-90k pre-taxes.[/QUOTE]



This is low. A good associateship should pay on a percentage of production or collections. Typically the range I see is 30-35%. Certainly you need to build up speed (with the quality), and it is dependent on whether the practice keeps you busy. After 2-3 years you should be able to produce 40k/month IF YOU ARE BUSY. Thats 150-170k net. If you go into an associateship and are not getting a fair number of NEW patients beware. You can't live on the owner's scraps. Hard to find a good associateship.
Fisrt year I would look in my contract for a guaranteed salary(80-100k) and some type of kicker that bumps it up after you hit that collection/production number. In other words you collect/produce enough for the owner to pay you that 100k and from then on you get the 30-35% of production/collections tacked on.

 

[dentalWorks]

This is low. A good associateship should pay on a percentage of production or collections. Typically the range I see is 30-35%. Certainly you need to build up speed (with the quality), and it is dependent on whether the practice keeps you busy. After 2-3 years you should be able to produce 40k/month IF YOU ARE BUSY. Thats 150-170k net. If you go into an associateship and are not getting a fair number of NEW patients beware. You can't live on the owner's scraps. Hard to find a good associateship.
Fisrt year I would look in my contract for a guaranteed salary(80-100k) and some type of kicker that bumps it up after you hit that collection/production number. In other words you collect/produce enough for the owner to pay you that 100k and from then on you get the 30-35% of production/collections tacked on.

These are the numbers my sister was making on her first year as an associate back in 2000. 35% of production and was grossing about 155k her first year.

She had a friend who graduated same year as her lol, she was pulling a little over 250k her first year, but she was an associate with her older brother, who gave her 50% production. 25 years of age making 250k, I can't even imagine what thats like

 

[charlestweed]

These are the numbers my sister was making on her first year as an associate back in 2000. 35% of production and was grossing about 155k her first year.

That was in 2000 when UNLV, Western, NOVA, Midwestern dental schools did not even exist. I believe they will open 2-3 more new dental schools (USN? New England?) in the near future. Many of my general dentist friends, who still work as associates, told me that they make significantly less than what they used to make 5-6 years ago. Why? Because of the poor economy, high unemployment rate, medicaid cuts, high student loan debts, and significant increase in new grad dentists. In CA, it is rare to find an associate job that pays 35%.

25 years of age making 250k, I can't even imagine what thats like

This amount is just OK if you owe more than $300k in student loans. I made slightly more than that when I was a young 29-year-old new grad orthodontist. I wasn’t the only one who worked. My wife also worked as a periodontist. We both worked 6 days/week. We rewarded ourselves by leasing 2 very nice German cars. Our first house was just average. Since our student loan payments were so high, we still had to borrow the bank money to set up our own offices.

 

[NoPresident]

That was in 2000 when UNLV, Western, NOVA, Midwestern dental schools did not even exist. I believe they will open 2-3 more new dental schools (USN? New England?) in the near future. Many of my general dentist friends, who still work as associates, told me that they make significantly less than what they used to make 5-6 years ago. Why? Because of the poor economy, high unemployment rate, medicaid cuts, high student loan debts, and significant increase in new grad dentists. In CA, it is rare to find an associate job that pays 35%.

Actually, according the ADA and the BHPR there were 4,171 graduates during the 1999-2000 academic years and last year (2009-2010) 4,067 accepted to current dental schools. Assuming that every single D1 graduates (which certainly won't happen) that's a drop of about -2.5% from about 10 years ago. Furthermore the highest enrollment ever in dental schools was in the 1970s (and early 80s) with 1978 peaking at 6,301 dentists entering the field. The difference from then until now is +55%.

Also, after taking into account the class sizes of all planned d-school openings in the next several years the number of total graduates will still be around the 2000 number I quoted (which is a number that has remained relatively steady: (+ or - about 10% over the past 25 years). Maybe the over saturation of dentists you speak of really isn't due to currently open or soon-to-be-opened schools?

Additionally, ADA polling over the last five years has determined that the mean reported expected age of retirement is between 63 and 67 years of age. This, coupled with the fact that average dentist's is on the rise like never before, bodes relatively well for future dentists. Granted this these numbers mean little to nothing if the current economic slump persists (or worsens) to say nothing of what might come as a byproduct of future legislation.

 

[charlestweed]

Actually, according the ADA and the BHPR there were 4,171 graduates during the 1999-2000 academic years and last year (2009-2010) 4,067 accepted to current dental schools. Assuming that every single D1 graduates (which certainly won't happen) that's a drop of about -2.5% from about 10 years ago. Furthermore the highest enrollment ever in dental schools was in the 1970s (and early 80s) with 1978 peaking at 6,301 dentists entering the field. The difference from then until now is +55%.

Also, after taking into account the class sizes of all planned d-school openings in the next several years the number of total graduates will still be around the 2000 number I quoted (which is a number that has remained relatively steady: (+ or - about 10% over the past 25 years). Maybe the over saturation of dentists you speak of really isn't due to currently open or soon-to-be-opened schools?

Additionally, ADA polling over the last five years has determined that the mean reported expected age of retirement is between 63 and 67 years of age. This, coupled with the fact that average dentist's is on the rise like never before, bodes relatively well for future dentists. Granted this these numbers mean little to nothing if the current economic slump persists (or worsens) to say nothing of what might come as a byproduct of future legislation.

In the late 90, my UCLA dental school class size was 72 and we didn't have the international program. The current UCLA class size is 88 and I don't think this includes the international dental students. My wife's USC dental class size was 120. The current USC dental class size is 140. In 2001, they closed one dental school (Northwestern). But after that, they added 5 more new dental schools: UNLV, Midwestern, Nova, Arizona, and Western. Either the ADA number is bogus or the other dental schools have drastically reduced their class sizes.