Truisms you should know before joining.

[SF49ers Fan]

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This thread is meant to inform those who are thinking about joining the military. I know that this is posted somewhere else, but I feel strongly enough about it, and these issues keep coming up. I felt I should give it its own thread.

Military truisms:

1. The military does not conform itself to you, you conform to it. There are certain standards (hair cuts, PT, whatever..), for the most part, these are not negotiable. If you don't like someone telling you how to dress, look, or act. DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY!

2. It's not always about you! Just because you did not get the location you desired, doesn't mean you got "screwed", it just means that for whatever reason the military needed a body in your billet and your name came up. Call it needs of the Navy/Army/AF or whatever. That's just the way it is.

3. It's all about attitude! This is true whatever you do. If you have a good attitude, it won't matter where you go, you will have a good time. I'll admit, sometimes this takes alot of willpower to tell yourself that you are having fun but it will be worth it if you are successful. Attitudes are also very infectious so keep yours positive. Nobody enjoys hearing you b!*ch all the time, so stop doing it.

4. The military deploys !!! This may come as a shocker but it's true. That's just the way it is with todays environment. You may be one of the lucky ones and stay stateside, but don't count on it or expect it.

5. If you don't like your command, wait 5 minutes. The military is always changing people out and moving people. I was at my first command for nearly five years before transferring, and in that time I went through 3 CO's and 4 XO's and numerous department heads. Everyone had their own way of doing things. In short, if your life sucks be patient and refer to truism #3. You will eventually get transferred or deployed or the person above you will, and things will be different.

6. The military isn't perfect. Change what you can, don't worry about the rest.

7. Admin trumps everything! Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork. As a military officer this will take up hours and hours of your time, and I'm not talking about patient notes. For better or worse, as long as the paperwork is done, your superiors will be happy. This is the most frustrating part of the military!! 😡

8. If it's not in writing, it didn't happen. The military expects written accounts to be kept for everything important and non-important! If it is not in an instruction, its not true. If you don't have a receipt, you didn't buy it and probably wont get reimbursed for it. If you didn't log it, nothing happened.

9. Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment. (Used by permission from Galo)

 

[abnatc]

Nobody enjoys hearing you b!*ch all the time, so stop doing it.

Great point!

 

[tscottturner]

Never sign for anything that you didn't lay hands on.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

Never sign for anything that you didn't lay hands on.

Good point. I got burned by not doing this many years ago with some classified material. I signed for it under the reassurance from the security officer I was relieving that they were there. Ha ha, guess who was responsible for them when inventory came around? 😱 Son of a ...!!

 

[tscottturner]

I was told "we can't stop the war for inventories!"

 

[SF49ers Fan]

You will probably have a collateral duty (or 4 maybe 5). One thing about the military, it seems someone is accountable for everything. Whether it is Safety Officer or cruise book coordinator (kind of like a yearbook for deployments) there is always something extra to do. With the way the evaluation system is set up (fitreps for the Navy) you will need to prove you don't suck. By having "bullets" on your fitrep you "look better". You are probably going to have a couple waiting for you when you check in to your command. Unlike GMO tours, they aren't going anywhere (then again maybe GMO tours aren't either). Again, this is just the way it is.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

There's a former PD in my program who came up with a set of rules.
1) The only consant is change
2) You take the money, you go where they tell you
3) In any situation you can always choose opportunity or calamity

When we're on call and the admission pager blows up we frequently say "I choose calamity"

 

[Mirror Form]

3. It's all about attitude! This is true whatever you do. If you have a good attitude, it won't matter where you go, you will have a good time. I'll admit, sometimes this takes alot of willpower to tell yourself that you are having fun but it will be worth it if you are successful. Attitudes are also very infectious so keep yours positive. Nobody enjoys hearing you b!*ch all the time, so stop doing it.

Thanks for the words of wisdom. But honestly, your advice just rings of someone who has no experience practicing medicine in the military.

In regard to the above paragraph, I'd say that's great advice on the line and in many situations. If I'm out on a field excercise and crawling through the mud in the cold rain, then yeah, that's good advice that I should try and take to heart . . . if I don't i'll expect to hear it from a drill sgt. But in the hospital things are a lot different. For example, am I supposed to just have a "positive attitude" when the horrendous EMR that was forced on us somehow erases clinic encounter notes that I wrote? Oh yeah, sure, so the system is threatening patient care and also leaving my medical license vulnerable, but I'll just keep a positive attitude!

 

[SF49ers Fan]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. But honestly, your advice just rings of someone who has no experience practicing medicine in the military.

In regard to the above paragraph, I'd say that's great advice on the line and in many situations. If I'm out on a field excercise and crawling through the mud in the cold rain, then yeah, that's good advice that I should try and take to heart . . . if I don't i'll expect to hear it from a drill sgt. But in the hospital things are a lot different. For example, am I supposed to just have a "positive attitude" when the horrendous EMR that was forced on us somehow erases clinic encounter notes that I wrote? Oh yeah, sure, so the system is threatening patient care and also leaving my medical license vulnerable, but I'll just keep a positive attitude!

Thank you for editing out the part where you insulted me. It will make my response to you much nicer. 😀

I am going to make a believer out of you yet! The simple answer to your question is, yes.

The military (and life) will put you in situations that are extremely stressful. The trick is how you respond to the stress. Does that mean that you can't be pissed off about what happened? No! Of course you should be mad in situations like that. If someone should be held accountable then hold them accountable. The attitude part comes with how you deal with the aftermath. If you spend weeks or months fuming over it, you are just going to make yourself and those around you miserable. How long are you going to hold on to that sh#t? You need to let it go so you can move on with your life.

Your attitude is one of most important parts to your personality. Everyone around you can feed off of it whether its good or bad. Have a nice day. 🙂

 

[Galo]

Thank you for editing out the part where you insulted me. It will make my response to you much nicer. 😀

I am going to make a believer out of you yet! The simple answer to your question is, yes.

The military (and life) will put you in situations that are extremely stressful. The trick is how you respond to the stress. Does that mean that you can't be pissed off about what happened? No! Of course you should be mad in situations like that. If someone should be held accountable then hold them accountable. The attitude part comes with how you deal with the aftermath. If you spend weeks or months fuming over it, you are just going to make yourself and those around you miserable. How long are you going to hold on to that sh#t? You need to let it go so you can move on with your life.

Your attitude is one of most important parts to your personality. Everyone around you can feed off of it whether its good or bad. Have a nice day. 🙂

I'm going to give you an example that you may not understand yet, where the advice you give may not hold true:

Say your boss is a full bird Col. Happens to be one of the worst managers of people, a true micromanager, and at the same time one of the worst surgeons you have seen. He routinely does surgery that does not meet the standard of care, or is on the very margins. You complain, you write letters, you file IG complaints, and your hospital commander, (also a full bird), really does nothing. Now this incompetent piece of crap KILLS an 80 yo veteran. You point out all the reasons this does not meet standard of care at the conference where all physicians review these cases, but once again, nothing happens. Could you possibly tell me how day in week out, month to month in a seemingly endless time you can deal with a piece of trash like this who has absolute power over you, and CANNOT be held accountable for his actions. Tell me if you are in that situation, how would you deal with it?? How long before it affects you, your family, your ability to take care of patients??

 

[Gastrapathy]

Truism #1: Before presuming to have the knowledge and experience to claim that one's statements are truisms, one should obtain some knowledge and experience.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

Truism #1: Before presuming to have the knowledge and experience to claim that one's statements are truisms, one should obtain some knowledge and experience.

I couldn't agree with you more. I guess its a good thing that doesn't apply here.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I couldn't agree with you more. I guess its a good thing that doesn't apply here.

Actually it does and people who perceive military medicine as just another part of the military machine are part of the problem. Being a doctor is not the same as being a line officer and when people who are not physicians presume to apply the lessons learned from the latter to the former, they make many false assumptions.

For example:
1. There are no standards for medical officers and what standards exist are applied unevenly and unpredictably. If you don't know this, you haven't spent anywhere near enough time at an MTF. Doctors with DUIs, doctors way out of standards, doctors who bring their gay lover to command xmas parties, etc.

5. There are basically 3 places I can ever go (at least they make up 90% of the billets) and no one ever moves between them. Depending on your specialty, you may work with the same 10 people your entire career.

To call your opinions TRUISMs is arrogant and arrogant medical students piss people off.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

I'm going to give you an example that you may not understand yet, where the advice you give may not hold true:

Say your boss is a full bird Col. Happens to be one of the worst managers of people, a true micromanager, and at the same time one of the worst surgeons you have seen. He routinely does surgery that does not meet the standard of care, or is on the very margins. You complain, you write letters, you file IG complaints, and your hospital commander, (also a full bird), really does nothing. Now this incompetent piece of crap KILLS an 80 yo veteran. You point out all the reasons this does not meet standard of care at the conference where all physicians review these cases, but once again, nothing happens. Could you possibly tell me how day in week out, month to month in a seemingly endless time you can deal with a piece of trash like this who has absolute power over you, and CANNOT be held accountable for his actions. Tell me if you are in that situation, how would you deal with it?? How long before it affects you, your family, your ability to take care of patients??

It sounds like you did everything that you possibly could (short of taking that guy for a nice ride in your trunk to a secluded spot in the woods somewhere). It appears that you did everything right professionally, the problem quickly gets out of control when you LET it affect you, your family, or your ability to take care of patients. If you LET that sh#t get at you, and you take it home, bad stuff happens. You make the consious decision to LET it affect you.

Don't assume because I have medical student after my name that I don't understand what it's like to have a superior make some stupid mistake that gets someone killed. This is the second war I've been through for F$%k sakes. Been there, done that. Thems the breaks. Change what you can, don't worry about the rest.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

Actually it does and people who perceive military medicine as just another part of the military machine are part of the problem. Being a doctor is not the same as being a line officer and when people who are not physicians presume to apply the lessons learned from the latter to the former, they make many false assumptions.

For example:
1. There are no standards for medical officers and what standards exist are applied unevenly and unpredictably. If you don't know this, you haven't spent anywhere near enough time at an MTF. Doctors with DUIs, doctors way out of standards, doctors who bring their gay lover to command xmas parties, etc.

5. There are basically 3 places I can ever go (at least they make up 90% of the billets) and no one ever moves between them. Depending on your specialty, you may work with the same 10 people your entire career.

To call your opinions TRUISMs is arrogant and arrogant medical students piss people off.

So you think that just because you took your gay lover to a command xmas party and got away with it that Truism #1 is false? Sorry, I don't buy it. Yes, it may seem like every command has it's own interpretation of the standards but they do exist. You may get away with those pigtails for a while, but you never know when they might have to be cut.

No one ever moves between them? OK, pull out a piece of paper and write down all the corpsman that you have worked with at your current station. Now write down the nurses, CO,XO, anyone else in the chain of command that you can think of. Keep a running list over the next couple of years of everyone that comes and goes. After a year or so you will quit and admit that I'm right. You or your Gut buddies may still be there but the rest of the command structure will have changed.

You think I'm arrogant? Well I guess I'll just have to chock that up with the rest of things that I really give a sh#t about in life.

 

[Galo]

It sounds like you did everything that you possibly could (short of taking that guy for a nice ride in your trunk to a secluded spot in the woods somewhere). It appears that you did everything right professionally, the problem quickly gets out of control when you LET it affect you, your family, or your ability to take care of patients. If you LET that sh#t get at you, and you take it home, bad stuff happens. You make the consious decision to LET it affect you.

Don't assume because I have medical student after my name that I don't understand what it's like to have a superior make some stupid mistake that gets someone killed. This is the second war I've been through for F$%k sakes. Been there, done that. Thems the breaks. Change what you can, don't worry about the rest.

Taking care of patients is not the same as sending out soldiers to fight and die. The point many of us are trying to tell you is you will not be able to apply your experiences to medicine, until you have actually experienced them. It is in this alot of times horrible experiences, that we have come to know that military medicine is totally screwed, and why we tell people there are inherent and severe problems they are likely to face, which a physician in the civilian world does not face, and if they do, they leave that place. I'm sure in the future you will be more able to tell of your experiences, when you have acutally lived them as an attending with patients lives or well being as your responsibility. Till then just get through med school, and watch yourself when you get into operational mil med.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

Taking care of patients is not the same as sending out soldiers to fight and die. The point many of us are trying to tell you is you will not be able to apply your experiences to medicine, until you have actually experienced them. It is in this alot of times horrible experiences, that we have come to know that military medicine is totally screwed, and why we tell people there are inherent and severe problems they are likely to face, which a physician in the civilian world does not face, and if they do, they leave that place. I'm sure in the future you will be more able to tell of your experiences, when you have acutally lived them as an attending with patients lives or well being as your responsibility. Till then just get through med school, and watch yourself when you get into operational mil med.

Point taken. 🙂

 

[dry dre]

I'm going to give you an example that you may not understand yet, where the advice you give may not hold true:

Say your boss is a full bird Col. Happens to be one of the worst managers of people, a true micromanager, and at the same time one of the worst surgeons you have seen. He routinely does surgery that does not meet the standard of care, or is on the very margins. You complain, you write letters, you file IG complaints, and your hospital commander, (also a full bird), really does nothing. Now this incompetent piece of crap KILLS an 80 yo veteran. You point out all the reasons this does not meet standard of care at the conference where all physicians review these cases, but once again, nothing happens. Could you possibly tell me how day in week out, month to month in a seemingly endless time you can deal with a piece of trash like this who has absolute power over you, and CANNOT be held accountable for his actions. Tell me if you are in that situation, how would you deal with it?? How long before it affects you, your family, your ability to take care of patients??

While I appreciate your point, the civilian equivalent to "colonel" is sometimes "faculty" or "department chair." In other words, the license to kill is shared by civilians alike. And there is no one to write a letter to here...if you want to keep your job/residency position. Best you can do is what you can do, and sometimes that doesn't mean much (unfortunately).

 

[Mirror Form]

While I appreciate your point, the civilian equivalent to "colonel" is sometimes "faculty" or "department chair." In other words, the license to kill is shared by civilians alike. And there is no one to write a letter to here...if you want to keep your job/residency position. Best you can do is what you can do, and sometimes that doesn't mean much (unfortunately).

But in the civilian world you have the option to quit. Of course during residency that's not a great idea, but afterward you can avoid working with the menaces to society.

 

[Mirror Form]

I couldn't agree with you more. I guess its a good thing that doesn't apply here.

It doesn't? Well, I guess you're not going to concede that your prior service doesn't provide you much insight into the real world of practicing medicine as a physician in the military.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

It doesn't? Well, I guess you're not going to concede that your prior service doesn't provide you much insight into the real world of practicing medicine as a physician in the military.

Did I miss something? I've been over this thread a couple of times now and I can't find the part where I am giving anyone any advice about how to manage their patients diabetes. Let me go back and and check........nope. None of the truisms include anything about ACLS or either. I don't claim to be able to tell you how to PRACTICE MEDICINE. That's not what this thread is about.

 

[Gastrapathy]

So you think that just because you took your gay lover to a command xmas party and got away with it that Truism #1 is false? Sorry, I don't buy it. Yes, it may seem like every command has it's own interpretation of the standards but they do exist. You may get away with those pigtails for a while, but you never know when they might have to be cut.

No one ever moves between them? OK, pull out a piece of paper and write down all the corpsman that you have worked with at your current station. Now write down the nurses, CO,XO, anyone else in the chain of command that you can think of. Keep a running list over the next couple of years of everyone that comes and goes. After a year or so you will quit and admit that I'm right. You or your Gut buddies may still be there but the rest of the command structure will have changed.

You think I'm arrogant? Well I guess I'll just have to chock that up with the rest of things that I really give a sh#t about in life.

I quit, you are right. How could I have been so myopic.

Of course, the xmas party guy retired recently after 20+ years of service. Apparently the retirement ceremony was a hoot. Guess they never quite got around to applying that standard.

The fact that you even think that the HM or nursing rotation structure matters (nurses hardly move either btw and HM's are all trying to flee the mtfs at all times) shows, once again, a total lack of perspective on physician life.

Its just comical that someone is entering a profession with as much complexity and uncertainty as medicine thinks that he has the perspective to offer truisms. And to argue that these are not directed at the medical profession is false, this is, after all, the SDN.

The real irony is that people like you end up running depts because you are the only O5s left in the military (people with prior line time who promote more quickly) and the O6s can't be bothered.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

I quit, you are right. How could I have been so myopic.

Of course, the xmas party guy retired recently after 20+ years of service. Apparently the retirement ceremony was a hoot. Guess they never quite got around to applying that standard.

The fact that you even think that the HM or nursing rotation structure matters (nurses hardly move either btw and HM's are all trying to flee the mtfs at all times) shows, once again, a total lack of perspective on physician life.

Its just comical that someone is entering a profession with as much complexity and uncertainty as medicine thinks that he has the perspective to offer truisms. And to argue that these are not directed at the medical profession is false, this is, after all, the SDN.

The real irony is that people like you end up running depts because you are the only O5s left in the military (people with prior line time who promote more quickly) and the O6s can't be bothered.

Actually, what is really comical is that I am arguing with someone who should and DOES know better. Go back and actually read your post to me and see if you are as baffled as I am.

Lets take a trip up to the original post.:
1. The military does not conform itself to you, you conform to it. There are certain standards (hair cuts, PT, whatever..), for the most part, these are not negotiable. If you don't like someone telling you how to dress, look, or act. DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY!
This is absolutely a true statement. Just because you know some people out of body fat standards, or maybe every female you work with wears civilian ear rings in uniform 🙂eek🙂, this does not mean that truism #1 is false. Every command is a little different with how they do business but for the most part, these are not negotiable. Maybe your command negotiated a little relaxation in the standards. Wow, now don't you feel a little foolish? Maybe I am wrong? It has been a couple of years since I've been over to Portsmouth Naval Hospital. Could it be that it has turned into Mchale's Navy? (-the new one-funny movie by the way) I'm going to have to go with my gut and say no!

5. If you don't like your command, wait 5 minutes. The military is always changing people out and moving people. I was at my first command for nearly five years before transferring, and in that time I went through 3 CO's and 4 XO's and numerous department heads. Everyone had their own way of doing things. In short, if your life sucks be patient and refer to truism #3. You will eventually get transferred or deployed or the person above you will, and things will be different.
I wrote this in response to posts where people were complaining about the morale at their command because of some of the people they had to deal with all the time, or the way their command did business. You don't think that the nursing structure or your corpsman play any role in how your command works? You don't think that they can affect the morale of your office? (No late night pages for stupid things that you already wrote orders for, or maybe you never had a nurse contradict you during rounds, I'm just a pissant med student and this sh#t has already happened to me) You think that I lack perspective? Wow, I'm sorry I'm actually getting a little embarrassed for you.

Most of the people on SDN have already chosen a career in medicine, they come here to find out about the military. I am still too green to offer any deep insight with patient care or even the day to day affairs of a military physician (those questions are for you). This thread was written to give those who are interested in the military something to think about before signing. Now if you would quit being pissed at me long enough and read this thread for what it is, you would realize how silly it is for you to come on here and nitpick with me. Have a nice weekend.🙂

 

[Gastrapathy]

(No late night pages for stupid things that you already wrote orders for, or maybe you never had a nurse contradict you during rounds, I'm just a pissant med student and this sh#t has already happened to me) You think that I lack perspective? Wow, I'm sorry I'm actually getting a little embarrassed for you.

I promise this is my last piece of troll food.

Nursing turnover is a serious issue at MTF's but not in the way that you suggest. Those nurses who contradicted you are a critical part of the teaching hospital safety net. Inexperienced doctors need to be challenged by experienced nurses if the nurse thinks they are incorrect. Most of the time, the inexperienced doctor will actually be correct but not always. At our hospitals, experienced nurses stop working on the floors right when they start to be experienced. The only ones left on the floor are the ENS and JG's. So, our housestaff get more pointless pages and I'm glad, given the inexperience in our nursing staff. Somehow suggesting that you are going to wait this problem out by waiting for that nurse to PCS shows, once again, that you are applying lessons that don't apply to our situation. When that JG leaves, he'll be replaced by someone fresh out of school who knows even less.

You don't need to be embarrassed for me. Save that for yourself when you are a 45 year old GMO left to guess how to manage something real.

 

[MaximusD]

I promise this is my last piece of troll food.

Nursing turnover is a serious issue at MTF's but not in the way that you suggest. Those nurses who contradicted you are a critical part of the teaching hospital safety net. Inexperienced doctors need to be challenged by experienced nurses if the nurse thinks they are incorrect. Most of the time, the inexperienced doctor will actually be correct but not always. At our hospitals, experienced nurses stop working on the floors right when they start to be experienced. The only ones left on the floor are the ENS and JG's. So, our housestaff get more pointless pages and I'm glad, given the inexperience in our nursing staff. Somehow suggesting that you are going to wait this problem out by waiting for that nurse to PCS shows, once again, that you are applying lessons that don't apply to our situation. When that JG leaves, he'll be replaced by someone fresh out of school who knows even less.

You don't need to be embarrassed for me. Save that for yourself when you are a 45 year old GMO left to guess how to manage something real.

45-y/o GMO = hell on earth, IMO. I'm gonna have kids, a hot (albeit aging and somewhat naggy) wife and a nice civvy group practice 9-5 by then, and call once/week. Ah, the american dream.

I agree with gastrapathy to a certain extent. Perhaps writing truisms should ahve been left to someone that's a little more experienced. Most of your stuff seems reasonable to me, but that means nothing seeing as my only military experience is through the stories of my quazi-crazy retired marine uncle 😉

 

[deuist]

While I appreciate your point, the civilian equivalent to "colonel" is sometimes "faculty" or "department chair." In other words, the license to kill is shared by civilians alike. And there is no one to write a letter to here...if you want to keep your job/residency position. Best you can do is what you can do, and sometimes that doesn't mean much (unfortunately).

Quite true. I've seen enough academic attendings kill off patients to know that there's nothing med students and residents can do about it.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

I promise this is my last piece of troll food.

Nursing turnover is a serious issue at MTF's but not in the way that you suggest. Those nurses who contradicted you are a critical part of the teaching hospital safety net. Inexperienced doctors need to be challenged by experienced nurses if the nurse thinks they are incorrect. Most of the time, the inexperienced doctor will actually be correct but not always. At our hospitals, experienced nurses stop working on the floors right when they start to be experienced. The only ones left on the floor are the ENS and JG's. So, our housestaff get more pointless pages and I'm glad, given the inexperience in our nursing staff. Somehow suggesting that you are going to wait this problem out by waiting for that nurse to PCS shows, once again, that you are applying lessons that don't apply to our situation. When that JG leaves, he'll be replaced by someone fresh out of school who knows even less.

You don't need to be embarrassed for me. Save that for yourself when you are a 45 year old GMO left to guess how to manage something real.

Although I do appreciate the the change in subject. You could have just said, "You're right, I knew all along your general military truisms were right on the money. I just resent the fact that it came from someone with nearly 2 decades of military experience (troll). It should have been posted by someone much more experienced in military medicine, like an actual physician f^#king minutes into his contract."

In case you missed it, you did actually prove my point for me with truism #5. I didn't miss it.

I can see your point with inexperienced nursing staff. The calls I was refering to came from a bitter nurse with 13 years of experience, who liked paging residents in the middle of the night to give them normal lab values drawn at 0645 the day before (not affraid to brag about it). I could care less, I was up anyway.

It was nice talking to you.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

You continue to think that milmed functions like the line, and that "truisms" there are equally applicable to us.

Why is advice like, have a good attitude, so specific to the line that it can't be transferred to the medical community? There is nothing in the original post that can't be useful anywhere. I mean, the military makes you get a haircut and stop complaining? I am not talking about shot line and deck plates.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Why is advice like, have a good attitude, so specific to the line that it can't be transferred to the medical community? There is nothing in the original post that can't be useful anywhere. I mean, the military makes you get a haircut and stop complaining? I am not talking about shot line and deck plates.

AH HA! He's a SWO. And an right-coast one at that. I totally should have guessed.

Tired, I know you wanted a ship and it really isn't a bad experience. Watching SWOs in their natural habitat can be entertaining. But, SWOs can be this painful all the time. They even give each other awards that relate only to how well they do paperwork and then call them "Battle E's".

And now, to remove temptation to continue to engage a SWO in a pointless argument (don't you have some battle lantern batteries to check or some meaningless report to write), I've fired up the old ignore fx.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

I've fired up the old ignore fx.

Ha Ha, does this mean that you are not talking to me any more? Shoving your fingers in your ears while loudly repeating, "La La La La!"?

Somehow I will find the strength to go on. 😀

At least we both agree that your argument was pointless.

 

[MaximusD]

I hereby promise to post on SDN regardless of whether I like military medicine or not... once per year after graduation. We'll call it the chronicles of MaximusD. That way it will begin as an inherently unbiased viewpoint and see what impression the military makes...

 

[SF49ers Fan]

I hereby promise to post on SDN regardless of whether I like military medicine or not... once per year after graduation. We'll call it the chronicles of MaximusD. That way it will begin as an inherently unbiased viewpoint and see what impression the military makes...

Good luck! I wish I had done this crap years ago when I was your age.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

Oh how I love these boards. 1) New guy (or girl) posts something remotely positive about the military and medicine in the same sentence 2) same five guys (maybe girls judging by how much they love to whine) begin eating new said poster alive. 3) new poster leaves none the worse usually laughing to himself. 4) rinse and repeat.

You guys should see what the Pysch dept. at Madigan thinks about some of the regulars here..........

peace

 

[MaximusD]

yo fizban! It's been a while -- I used to be "drmax". Anyway, glad to see that you got into USUHS... you used to post in the pre-do forum then all of a sudden you dissappeared. Now I see why 😉

Hope that things are going well in the military. Looks like I'm going to be signing USAF HPSP in the coming months. Maybe our paths will cross sometime in the future. What branch did you choose?

 

[Mirror Form]

Did I miss something? I've been over this thread a couple of times now and I can't find the part where I am giving anyone any advice about how to manage their patients diabetes. Let me go back and and check........nope. None of the truisms include anything about ACLS or either. I don't claim to be able to tell you how to PRACTICE MEDICINE. That's not what this thread is about.

What you're doing is making an assumption that the military medicine world is similar to that of the line. It's not, it's completey different. I'm sorry that you refuse to accept this. But it's no big deal, you'll find out for yourself in 4-5 years.

 

[Galo]

Oh how I love these boards. 1) New guy (or girl) posts something remotely positive about the military and medicine in the same sentence 2) same five guys (maybe girls judging by how much they love to whine) begin eating new said poster alive. 3) new poster leaves none the worse usually laughing to himself. 4) rinse and repeat.

You guys should see what the Pysch dept. at Madigan thinks about some of the regulars here..........

peace

It never fails to amaze me the cojones medical students have to post here, like they know everything already. The laugh will come later when you realize the stupidity of your gall, and how false it can become. If you keep this attitude up, you may just fit in perfectly in mil med.

 

[|2idicu|ous]

It never fails to amaze me the cojones medical students have to post here, like they know everything already. The laugh will come later when you realize the stupidity of your gall, and how false it can become. If you keep this attitude up, you may just fit in perfectly in mil med.

ohh the good ole days....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=335222

 

[core0]

1. Your weapon was made by the low bidder.
2. Never invade a country without a Pizza Hut.

For a true master of Military Truisms I refer you here:
http://skippyslist.com/list/

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[Galo]

ohh the good ole days....

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=335222

Did you finish med school, and residency, and mil med career. Oh, guess what you have to say now has substance.

Same attitude, same future.

 

[Mirror Form]

That and the burned out former milmed docs who bailed out 5 years ago, but continues to rehash the same tired complaints over and over and over?

Are you saying they shouldn't post here? I wish I had this resource a long time ago when I was considering joing ROTC. Remember that about 6 years ago there was absolutely no information source like this for those considering joining the military. All we had was our recruiters and what some retired vietnam vet told us.

 

[mitchconnie]

Are you saying they shouldn't post here? I wish I had this resource a long time ago when I was considering joing ROTC. Remember that about 6 years ago there was absolutely no information source like this for those considering joining the military. All we had was our recruiters and what some retired vietnam vet told us.

Exactly right. It amazes me when pre-meds and med students complain that this forum is "too negative." The negative experiences are the very thing that makes it a valuable resource (and an interesting read). There is no shortage of people around to give you spin about how great military medicine is--your recruiter, your uncle Bob who got out in 1988, your Grampa who served in WWII, an O-6 hospital comander, etc. Why not hear about some of the many pitfalls from some folks who have been there and didn't think it was so great? Is there any other way you would get in touch with someone like Bomberdoc?

 

[Galo]

That and the burned out former milmed docs who bailed out 5 years ago, but continues to rehash the same tired complaints over and over and over?

I can understand this reaction. Its typical of someone who is in a situation that they CANNOT get out of, and instead of being miserable they try to ignorantly defend it thinking that somehow the bad things will not happen to them. This is probably the "attitude" adjustment that is one of these so called truisms. It may work for the immediate situation when it seems, (or really are) getting good education, and (???????) good residency experience. But it will absolutely not work when you are the responsible party in charge, and suddenly you find insurmountable obstacles to do your job properly. It happens in every service, and in every field to varying degrees. Many of us describe similar experiences, and it seems that in some aspects things are getting even worse.

So Tired, (? of what?), I can understand your attitude since you are trying to protect something you do not have any control over. However, people who come and read this forum need to have the opposing view. Nobody is telling you not to post, but when it comes to certain aspects of mil med that you have not yet experienced, along with cheerleading med students, the statement "blind leading the blind" comes to mind.

 

[DiveMD]

Exactly right. It amazes me when pre-meds and med students complain that this forum is "too negative." The negative experiences are the very thing that makes it a valuable resource (and an interesting read). There is no shortage of people around to give you spin about how great military medicine is--your recruiter, your uncle Bob who got out in 1988, your Grampa who served in WWII, an O-6 hospital comander, etc. Why not hear about some of the many pitfalls from some folks who have been there and didn't think it was so great? Is there any other way you would get in touch with someone like Bomberdoc?

I agree w/ you guys 100%. But maybe we should try to recruit as much people as possible in order to minimize our chances of being recalled during IRR. 😀

My advice to med students:

"Mil Med is great! There is nothing better than not being able to do your residency and having to do GMO tour. I was not depressed at all when my school mates finished their residencies while I continued to work as a glorified intern doing physicals and sick call. Also, having a nurse or an MSC type as your boss is not really a big deal. They really understand the realities of your medical career and will support you without any reserves. You can rest assured that your opinion and morale is more important to them than the RVU's you can potentially produce @ the clinic. Moreover, you will be working as a physician; no meaningless admin duties will ever get on the way of your patient care. Finally, continue to listen to all those experienced medical students: they are the true voices at the trenches. Gosh what a great system!!!! Join and you will love it!!!"


BTW, this is obviously a sarcasm.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

I can understand this reaction. Its typical of someone who is in a situation that they CANNOT get out of, and instead of being miserable they try to ignorantly defend it thinking that somehow the bad things will not happen to them. This is probably the "attitude" adjustment that is one of these so called truisms. It may work for the immediate situation when it seems, (or really are) getting good education, and (???????) good residency experience. But it will absolutely not work when you are the responsible party in charge, and suddenly you find insurmountable obstacles to do your job properly. It happens in every service, and in every field to varying degrees. Many of us describe similar experiences, and it seems that in some aspects things are getting even worse.

So Tired, (? of what?), I can understand your attitude since you are trying to protect something you do not have any control over. However, people who come and read this forum need to have the opposing view. Nobody is telling you not to post, but when it comes to certain aspects of mil med that you have not yet experienced, along with cheerleading med students, the statement "blind leading the blind" comes to mind.

Ah CRAP!!! Just when I thought I understood how this forum was supposed to work. People have been telling me I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this forum until I am an actual physician. Now I find out I wont be enlightened enough to post here until I'm a resident?!? Or is it when I'm an attending? How many years EXACTLY as an attending to I need to have before I am considered no longer "blind" enough to post here? Also, How do I know that YOU have enough experience for me to trust your opinion. Who is in charge of deciding where to draw the line?

 

[Galo]

Ah CRAP!!! Just when I thought I understood how this forum was supposed to work. People have been telling me I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this forum until I am an actual physician. Now I find out I wont be enlightened enough to post here until I'm a resident?!? Or is it when I'm an attending? How many years EXACTLY as an attending to I need to have before I am considered no longer "blind" enough to post here? Also, How do I know that YOU have enough experience for me to trust your opinion. Who is in charge of deciding where to draw the line?

Even in the military sometimes everything is not black and white, there are shades of gray depending on how they will benefit the person in power. Now give me a break. I think its clearly evident you had some experience in the military, and some of your Pearls, may be applicable to some situations.

What people seem not to get is that MEDICINE is a totally different field than that of a military professional officer. I have made my 6 year experience as a general surgeon in the Air Force with communication with my peers (surgeons and other specialties), throughout the Air Force, (relatively small community), and in the Army, and Navy, although more limited. I think that qualifies me to speak about my experience with military surgery, medicine, GME, deployments, problems with command, support, etc etc. YOU, and a resident have slightly more limited experience, and cannot comment FROM EXPERIENCE on some of those topics. If you do not get that, (and I think you do), then your going to find trouble in your future. As far as the forum, its just that, and people's opinions are just like butts, everyone has one. But what we have said our experience is, has been mirrored in the general media, news, etc etc. Its NO secret that mil med has problems. I think once again, especially when I get a PM, or email, I always tell them that they should call up current AD physicians. So its your choice to apply the appropriate amount of belief to what me and others say. Would you like me to post the M&M synopsis of where this POS COL murdered an 80 yo vet, and got away scot free? HIPPA may have a problem with that. How about my departure letter, I did that as one of my first posts on this forum. I have nothing to hide, just what I experienced, and saw lots of other physicians experience. Although I must take responsibility for my actions based on what I experienced, I think its bad enough to let other prospective (NAIVE) students what the possibilities are without having a med student or a resident, or a cheerleading attending tell me that its all CRAP, or just an isolated incident.

Peace!

Also, the when I wrote the blind comment, I was not thinking of you. I just saw it posted in another thread, or is it this one, and I think its a pretty accurate reflection of some overenthusiastic med students, and/or residents.


One of my attendings, (mentor), used to say something like this about experience:

Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment.

This is in regards to surgical decision making, but it can be applied pretty much anywhere. When you have experienced milmed as an attending, maybe this will give you some further insight.

 

[FutureNavyFP]

Even in the military sometimes everything is not black and white, there are shades of gray depending on how they will benefit the person in power. Now give me a break. I think its clearly evident you had some experience in the military, and some of your Pearls, may be applicable to some situations.

What people seem not to get is that MEDICINE is a totally different field than that of a military professional officer. I have made my 6 year experience as a general surgeon in the Air Force with communication with my peers (surgeons and other specialties), throughout the Air Force, (relatively small community), and in the Army, and Navy, although more limited. I think that qualifies me to speak about my experience with military surgery, medicine, GME, deployments, problems with command, support, etc etc. YOU, and a resident have slightly more limited experience, and cannot comment FROM EXPERIENCE on some of those topics. If you do not get that, (and I think you do), then your going to find trouble in your future. As far as the forum, its just that, and people's opinions are just like butts, everyone has one. But what we have said our experience is, has been mirrored in the general media, news, etc etc. Its NO secret that mil med has problems. I think once again, especially when I get a PM, or email, I always tell them that they should call up current AD physicians. So its your choice to apply the appropriate amount of belief to what me and others say. Would you like me to post the M&M synopsis of where this POS COL murdered an 80 yo vet, and got away scot free? HIPPA may have a problem with that. How about my departure letter, I did that as one of my first posts on this forum. I have nothing to hide, just what I experienced, and saw lots of other physicians experience. Although I must take responsibility for my actions based on what I experienced, I think its bad enough to let other prospective (NAIVE) students what the possibilities are without having a med student or a resident, or a cheerleading attending tell me that its all CRAP, or just an isolated incident.

Peace!

Also, the when I wrote the blind comment, I was not thinking of you. I just saw it posted in another thread, or is it this one, and I think its a pretty accurate reflection of some overenthusiastic med students, and/or residents.


One of my attendings, (mentor), used to say something like this about experience:

Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment.

This is in regards to surgical decision making, but it can be applied pretty much anywhere. When you have experienced milmed as an attending, maybe this will give you some further insight.

I see your point.

 

[SF49ers Fan]

Good judgment comes from experience, and often experience comes from bad judgment.

This is in regards to surgical decision making, but it can be applied pretty much anywhere. When you have experienced milmed as an attending, maybe this will give you some further insight.

Great quote. 🙂 It would actually make a perfect Truism #10. What do you think?

 

[Galo]

Great quote. 🙂 It would actually make a perfect Truism #10. What do you think?

I would agree that one is a truism applicable to any field.

 

[Galo]

Blah blah blah.

Don't worry, I only cheerlead for the things I've actually experienced. Do GMOs suck? I don't know, I'll let you know what I think next year. Does being a staff milmed doc suck? Again, no idea, I'll fill you in next decade. Does internship suck? Nope, mine is great.

Oops, sorry, there I go again relating my positive experiences. My bad, I keep forgetting that's a TOS violation.

Here's a thought: if you've been out of milmed longer than you actually served, try moving on with your life instead of telling the same woe-is-me stories over and over again.

Or, if you really feel the need to repeat yourself, just keep your first post from 2003 copied on your clipboard, and copy it into every forum titled "Is it so bad?" that pops up twice a month. It'll at least save you the trouble of typing out the same thing again.

I suppose you've heard the expression you can lead a horse to water? You are acting like a MULE. I'm glad your residency is going well. Be sure to let us know how it is to be an attending.

Just like I felt the need to serve my country and my fellow soldiers, I feel it is my need to let as many people as I can know what a tragedy milmed has become. If being insulted by some pissant little crap cheerleading resident, attending or med student is what I have to endure, then so be it. I sleep just fine at night, though it does bother me that you, and others would have such a negative reaction to what you probably fear in the back of your mind you have the potential to experience as a physician. That is unless you consider yourself already a military officer first and foremost, and a physician a distant second. Part of the reason mil med is destroyed!

When you see something that is inherently wrong and potentially harming patients will you turn your head the other way for the good of the company, or yourself or speak up like you should? I am choosing to speak up, then, now, and for a long time to come.

 

[Gastrapathy]

The implication that the Madigan psychiatry department is analyzing personalities based on people's web postings is a tad on the creepy, big brother side, no?