Trying to get experience in the operating room - ECs, need advice

[Poisson]

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Hello, I very much want to get experience in the operating room / some kind of experience that can be considered working in a patient contact environment. My next-door neighboor, whom I have not seen in a long time (just ran into him and he gave me a high five, and said whats up in a funny way .. like whatssss uppp man), has an MD and a surgical internship (DDS aferwards + oral residency), and practices as an oral surgeon. He always was good friends with me, and paid for my rounds at his country club. How would I approach him, and say that I am interested in working in an office for under a year as some kind of a tech (possibly his)? He is a very good guy to know and an alumni of a small medical school, where a letter of recommendation would also very much help I would think. A family member of mine worked in his office and had the highest accolades. But on the flip side, some medical schools state (one I saw) podiatry, dental, etc. does not count as patient contact experience in a medical office (maybe it was shadowing, but definitely was mentioned in some regards), as absurd as that sounds, thus oral surgery may be considered dental by admissions committees.

Is the above a good way to go? I feel that it can't get any better to know somebody so down to earth that could possibly help me in a big way, but on the flip side, oral surgery is not a specialty post-MD. Is there a way to talk to doctors that I have already met, and discuss about possibly getting patient contact experience? Most doctors say I can shadow, but I feel kind of embarrassed to ask about doing anything else, but then again I see pre-meds even being surgical assistants (higher than surgical techs) for a year through undergrad, now this is what I really would like to do, or some kind of medical assistant in the orthopaedics department.

Thank you for your time.

Poisson, BS, MS

 

[Poisson]

I found the University of Utah to have an interesting site about patient contact and shadowing (I'm sure most pre-meds are up into the 100s or 1000s though, but then some much more down in experience for MD-PhD).

Physician Shadowing

Physician shadowing is defined as the observation of a physician as s/he cares for and treats patients and carries out the other responsibilities of a medical practice.
Applicants should spend enough time directly shadowing physicians to understand the challenges, demands and lifestyle of a medical doctor. Shadowing must be done with an allopathic (M.D.) or osteopathic (D.O.) physician in their practice in the United States. Time spent shadowing residents, physician assistants, podiatrists, veterinarians, nurses, EMT's, PhD's etc., will not be considered. It is our recommendation that applicants shadow several physicians in varied specialties.

• The minimum requirement is 8 hours shadowing a physician(s) through all the activities of an average day.
• The average applicant spends 24 hours with a physician(s).

Patient Exposure

Patient exposure is defined as direct interaction with patients and hands-on involvement in the care of conscious people in a health care related environment, attending to their health maintenance, progression or end of life needs. It is important that the applicant be comfortable working with and around people who are ill.
Direct patient exposure can be gained in a variety of ways. Patient contact must include patients other than family members and friends and does not include indirect patient care such as housekeeping (cleaning operating rooms or patient rooms) working at the hospital information desk, or working in a pharmacy.

• The minimum patient exposure requirement is 4 hours per week for a period of 2 months or the equivalent of 32 hours.
• The average applicant spends 4 hours per week in patient exposure for 3 months or the equivalent of 48 hours.

Note: Physician shadowing and caring for friends and family members cannot be used to meet this requirement.


(at least I got the research experience into 2 years, I'm not bad on the shadowing, but the patient contact I am lacking)

 

[Poisson]

The above post is OK, but looking for a second opinion.

Best,

Poisson

 

[Poisson]

My confusion comes up when I see pre-med profiles that appear to be doing quite a bit (of course I am not meaning doing procedures?), and I would really be hard-pressed to believe they had completed the time consuming (and sometimes relatively costly) training programs.

 

[Poisson]

I am feeling the EMT-B program would be a good thing to get into. Please share.

👍

 

[drizzt3117]

Oral/maxillilofacial surgery is a medical specialty as well as a dental one.

Pre-med students aren't legally allowed to do ANY procedures without further licensing or certification. Your best patient contact opportunities will be found in hospice, nursing homes, or hospital volunteering. If you're not satisfied with those choices, you need an entry-level certification, such as CNA or EMT-B. You still won't be allowed to do any procedures, but you'll be qualified for more patient care.

Oral surgery experience will be of no more benefit to your medical school application than veterinary experience, janitorial experience, or customer service experience (I've chosen extremes for illustrative purposes). While the field of dentistry is within the bounds of healthcare, you are not applying to dentistry school and dental work is irrelevant to your ambitions to be a doctor.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Hello, I very much want to get experience in the operating room / some kind of experience that can be considered working in a patient contact environment. My next-door neighboor, whom I have not seen in a long time (just ran into him and he gave me a high five, and said whats up in a funny way .. like whatssss uppp man), has an MD and a surgical internship (DDS aferwards + oral residency), and practices as an oral surgeon. He always was good friends with me, and paid for my rounds at his country club. How would I approach him, and say that I am interested in working in an office for under a year as some kind of a tech (possibly his)? He is a very good guy to know and an alumni of a small medical school, where a letter of recommendation would also very much help I would think. A family member of mine worked in his office and had the highest accolades. But on the flip side, some medical schools state (one I saw) podiatry, dental, etc. does not count as patient contact experience in a medical office (maybe it was shadowing, but definitely was mentioned in some regards), as absurd as that sounds, thus oral surgery may be considered dental by admissions committees.

Is the above a good way to go? I feel that it can't get any better to know somebody so down to earth that could possibly help me in a big way, but on the flip side, oral surgery is not a specialty post-MD. Is there a way to talk to doctors that I have already met, and discuss about possibly getting patient contact experience? Most doctors say I can shadow, but I feel kind of embarrassed to ask about doing anything else, but then again I see pre-meds even being surgical assistants (higher than surgical techs) for a year through undergrad, now this is what I really would like to do, or some kind of medical assistant in the orthopaedics department.

Thank you for your time.

Poisson, BS, MS

I have a few comments to your posts:

1) I think your next-door neighbor is an excellent person to stay in contact with, for shadowing and so he can perhaps help introduce you to other physicians you can shadow. I am not sure you should ask him for a letter of recommendation since you know him in a personal and not a professional capacity. Most medical schools specifically say that you should not get letters from family friends or relatives. You'll have to check with each school individually, though.

2) There is a reason that no physician has told you that you can do anything but shadow. If you are going to be doing ANY sort of assisting in the OR, you need to be a surgery tech, RN, med student, resident, etc. I doubt any hospital in the US would allow a pre-med with no experience or certification to do anything but watch a surgery.

3) I was a volunteer EMT for two years before I even decided to go to med school. You will definitely get patient contact, and you will get some hands-on experience, but not much. Mostly you are just moving people into the ambulance and driving them to the hospital. I was lucky that my EMT service was BLS-only, so we responded to every call we got, but often as an EMT-B you will just be doing patient transport and you will not be dealing with anyone critical. Those calls go to ALS and the medics.

Overall, the point of patient contact is not to get to DO things. It's to show adcoms that you understand what it's like to deal with sick people all the time, and that you have experience interacting with patients. Most adcoms aren't all that impressed by the fact that you can take a blood pressure, start an IV, read an EKG, suture, etc. My advice to you is to do as much shadowing in the OR as you can, solely because it interests you, and a couple other specialties. Don't try to get involved in anything you aren't qualified to do. Once you are in medical school, you'll have more opportunities to get your "hands dirty", so to speak.

 

[campbellsoup29]

Not trying to start a crazy debate here but a hospital located near my hometown offers a perioperative intern position in which the intern can serve as a scrub 2 and their responsibilities include retracting, sponging, cutting suture, holding equipment/limbs in a particular orientation, and stapling after the procedure. Participants receive a stipend at the end of the six week program and there is a one week training session. The program is of course still focused on clinical shadowing.
I'm not sure how widespread these types of programs are but they do exist for undergraduate students.
I agree with the above posters that shadowing/patient contact should be your priority and the EMT-B may be something beneficial to pursue but at this point observation is key.