Trying to go home and still eat

[docnizzi]

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I'm NYC (not Manhattan) born and raised and now looking at several programs there, but the recent gentrification of even areas I thought would be safe have made me scared to death of trying to have my family there and then being forced by new legislation to make loan payments. My mother who is still there has even advised me to think about whether I want to come back because it's been increasingly difficult.

How are people who are not able to go their parents for $$ but are in programs in NYC doing as far as your day to day living?

Mind you I only left prior to med school and the changes are so dramatic with the way rents have continued to be driven up b/c of the communities being displaced by people from Indiohidaho. Where I am is nice enough and the program is great but I am kind of tired of being an URM everywhere I go here.

Sorry if I sound a little bitter. Any feedback from folks at programs there would be greatly appreciated. 😕

 

[GATORANALYST]

I'm NYC (not Manhattan) born and raised and now looking at several programs there, but the recent gentrification of even areas I thought would be safe have made me scared to death of trying to have my family there and then being forced by new legislation to make loan payments. My mother who is still there has even advised me to think about whether I want to come back because it's been increasingly difficult.

How are people who are not able to go their parents for $$ but are in programs in NYC doing as far as your day to day living?

Mind you I only left prior to med school and the changes are so dramatic with the way rents have continued to be driven up b/c of the communities being displaced by people from Indiohidaho. Where I am is nice enough and the program is great but I am kind of tired of being an URM everywhere I go here.

Sorry if I sound a little bitter. Any feedback from folks at programs there would be greatly appreciated. 😕

I left. There are so many great programs that are located in wonderful cheaper areas. NYC (in manhattan and outside) is way overrated with all the changes!
Do yourself a favor look elswhere.

 

[Faebinder]

NYC is not worth it.. it's a large world out there... get out while you still can.

 

[deleted77919]

…

 

[whopper]

IMHO (and no offense to the NYC residents) its not worth it unless you want to be in NYC or the program you get into is worth it.

NYC IMHO is one of those places you want to live in during your 20s or you got the money to burn. However as a resident, you're probably not going to be able to afford or have time for the benefits of its metropolitan lifestyle. Further, NYC programs from what I've heard have a tendency to attach a lot of scutwork onto their residents.

Not New York, but a program I did some rotations at in Newark kept advertising to residency candidates about how close they were to NYC. None of the residents had time to go to NYC. Every free moment was spent trying to catch up on sleep.

As a medstudent I had a choice--do rotations in NYC & spend over $1000/month in a small place I'd only be using to sleep because I'd be working all the time, or do some rotations elsewhere--where the rent was less than 1/2 for the same size and the cost of living was also much cheaper.

Anasazi might be able to shed better light on this, since he is in NYC. Also if you're one of those types that just really need to be in NYC because you love the area, then of course go for it. If you're not though, I don't see any real reason to come to NYC unless the program you get into is kick-ass.

 

[docnizzi]

So I'm finishing the ROL and while 3 and down are set, my dilemma goes back to whether I could swing going back to NY where my family is. The NY program is considered high tier 2, has a great C/L fellowship (which I would consider doing after finishing C&A), and just seems to be a great fit with my interests. The problem lies with financial obligations on my and my husband's part which will fall on me alone as he tries to find part time work that would allow him to be home with our baby (my family all works). I just don't know if I can pull it off.

The non-NY program is the home school, is known as more of a research juggernaut but has one of the most extensive child programs one can find. It is also in an area that really wants to be metropolitan, the cost of living is very good comparatively, especially coming in with an infant with the hopes that Dad can stay at home as much as possible. My concern about it is culturally lacking and so the patient population will be somewhat narrow and I'll never get my Spanish back and my kid may not be able to identify with my part of her heritage.

So essentially it's a head vs. heart/gut situation. While knowing that the non-NY pgm is probably has more "prestige" and the area is easier as far as living, the prospect of spending another 5 years here and my daughter being a football fanatic who listens to crunk or country makes me die a little inside.

 

[strangeglove]

I agree that there is nothing special about NYC. It is the case, however, that a couple of the top programs in the country happen to be located there, so if you are interested in the particular kind of training that these programs offer, you will need to consider whether you want to live in NYC.

One thing to keep in mind is that it is very hard to start a private practice in NYC after doing a residency elsewhere. This problem even befalls people who do residency outside of NYC and choose to do fellowships there. The advantage of training in NYC is that much of your initial caseload will be referrals from supervisors and other physicians you come to know during your residency. If you're not planning on practicing in NYC, then the world is your oyster.

 

[nancysinatra]

Mind you I only left prior to med school and the changes are so dramatic with the way rents have continued to be driven up b/c of the communities being displaced by people from Indiohidaho. Where I am is nice enough and the program is great but I am kind of tired of being an URM everywhere I go here.

I am not exactly sure who you are saying was displacing whom, but there are a lot of reasons why real estate prices and rents were going up in NYC for decades, and many of those reasons had to do with the city being a financial center. If I read you correctly, you are insinuating that people from other states moved to New York and displaced local residents. Actually, many people who have been moving to New York for years have found it a terrible struggle to afford to live here, especially those who don't, like you, have any family nearby at all. New York also happens to be home to publishing and arts industries that pay far worse than any residency, and those workers struggle as well to find decent housing. Article after article in the New York times has revealed about how hard it is for such people to balance housing costs with food, health insurance, etc.

If you read the NY Times LATELY, by the way, you'll see that rents are spiraling downward like never before. As in, actual cuts in monthly rent.

 

[diosa428]

If you read the NY Times LATELY, by the way, you'll see that rents are spiraling downward like never before. As in, actual cuts in monthly rent.

That post was from 5 months ago.

 

[Rhayven44]

As has been alluded to, where you want to live after residency should be a big component of your decision. It sounds like you might end up in NY if you go to the residency...but it doesn't seem the same way for your home institution. Four years is a nice time to do a "trial run" anywhere. But if you see yourself living in either one after residency, I guess my previous statements don't matter🙂

Personally, I got down to my last 2 choices in wildly different places and went with my heart. I figured it this way...my head got the list narrowed down to 2. So if my head doesn't agree with how my heart led me, it shouldn't have put the damned schools up there.

 

[Anasazi23]

I feel sort of silly responding to a post that is 5 months old. As such, this response is probably irrelevant by now. That said, I can say that I can't wait to move out of here in July. I'll preface this by saying that my personal bias is that I basically can't stand the city at this point. The prices are more expensive, parking costs me > $300 month, my car has been destroyed by parking attendants (fairly new BMW), you can't move in the grocery stores due to the massive amount of walker-wielding elderlies, the weather sucks, the traffic sucks, the subway sucks horribly, the rents are high, the space is very limited, the noise sucks, etc.

Now I should say that I have plenty of friends who are residents, that loved, and continue to love living here. They usually are single, enjoy clubbing or "lounging" and are not from here. Meaning, they love trolling the club scene, dressing nice, and attempting to conquer sexual prize for the weekend. This is particulary true after the advent of that abomination of a television "show" called sex in the city.

Bloomberg's new city tax planning will be even more brutal. You can expect your medical license renewal fee to double to over $1,000 every two years, as well as new taxes on your itunes, soda, MTA, parking, and practically anything else you can think of. Not to mention the yet-to-be-implemented east river crossing new tolls, which will increase traffic even more dramatically. Oh, and let's not forget the city tax that you must pay on your income, which will be in addition to your federal and state taxes.

It's not all bad, however. There are plenty of dry-cleaners within walking distance, and more Duane Reade's with Chase ATMs than you can shake a stick at. So in closing, who needs a pool, 4 bedroom house, 2-3 car garage, lawn, quiet, and luxury when you can have a 1 bedroom, 1 bath, 17th floor apartment where you're forced to listen to neighboring dogs barking through all four walls at 2am, seranaded by ambulance and firetruck sounds at 4am.

In all seriousness, if you really need the museums, clubs, sexual conquesting, good restaurants (many of which are overrated), shopping which you can't afford, sushi, broadway, and dry-cleaners, then NYC is for you.

 

[Anasazi23]

Oh yeah, and don't forget some of the crappiest salaries in the United States.

To me, the decision to move was simple:

Bad salary + high cost of living = goodbye.

 

[Tradewind]

If you want to go to a specific NYC program (e.g. Columbia - there aren't many that rival it), or if you want to practice in NYC after residency, it would make sense to tough it out and stay in the area for residency.

Those reasons aside, I would definitely look elsewhere. By the time we reach residency, we're entering our late 20's or 30's and some of us are starting families. Cost of living can play an enormous factor in happiness. When you're working intern hours, would you rather come home to a run down studio or 1 BR apt, or a manicured 2-3BR apt or even your own house? There's something to be said for comfort of living, particularly when you'll be working resident hours with calls.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Oh yeah, and don't forget some of the crappiest salaries in the United States.

To me, the decision to move was simple:

Bad salary + high cost of living = goodbye.

But I've heard that if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.
😀

 

[nancysinatra]

But I've heard that if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.
😀

Especially if you go by the name Sinatra.

You know, it's fine if people want to trash NYC. But at least it HAS a subway. And at least an old person can go TO the grocery store IN their walker as opposed to being homebound because they can't drive and the city is designed only for automobiles.

If I wanted to, I could ridicule the suburban tract lifestyle epitomized in many midwestern and western cities. One person's "quality of life" may be another person's hell on earth. But anyway, the more people who leave NYC, the cheaper the rents will be for those who stay! And we won't have to endure the encroachment of as many Chilis or TGI Fridays because that element will have moved away.

 

[Tradewind]

Hey, I wasn't trashing NYC. I love New York! Everyone should live in/near Manhattan at least once. There's nowhere quite like it. I've been there and done that and will look forward to visiting NYC in the future after I've saved a lot of money to do so. I'm now at the stage in my life where I want to sit on my home toilet while being able to keep my knees in front of me instead of swirved to the right to avoid having them pressed against the bathroom door. Still, if you haven't lived there, yet, consider it. The arts are unparalleled.

 

[docnizzi]

Thanks to everyone for their input. It's looking like much as I wanted to go back home, I have others to think about now. As private practice is not really a goal, hopefully things will work that way later on. I guess it's time to certify the ROL. Good luck to all.

 

[whopper]

If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere because its so darned expensive there, living elsewhere would be easier.

Now I should say that I have plenty of friends who are residents, that loved, and continue to love living here. They usually are single, enjoy clubbing or "lounging" and are not from here.

Well let's just say that I'm not into wearing skin tight pink spandex with an oversized black T shirt that says "Boyz" on it while wearing black lipstick (despite my avatar which is by the way a joke. I've heard some some friends of mine who are attendings hear some of the medstudents or residents mention "Whopper" and get an impression that my avatar-is a real pic of me. I guess they're too young to remember the Hoff's 80s persona).

Yeah, I think the clubbing scene in NYC is overrated, expensive, and full of poseurs.

If I ran a hedge fund, was making millions to billions, and had to be close to the "Street" for a living, then I wouldn't mind NYC. Otherwise for me, its a place to visit, not to live.

 

[nancysinatra]

Yeah, I think the clubbing scene in NYC is overrated, expensive, and full of poseurs.

Can someone name a US city whose clubbing scene is not overrated, expensive, and full of "poseurs?" I ask this because I believe this is the essence OF clubbing. That's what poseurs do, is go clubbing. If anything, the poseurs in New York are at least REAL poseurs. In some of these other cities, you have poseurs of poseurs doing the clubbing. Now how great a clubbing scene is that?

I have seen this with my own two eyes so I cannot be convinced that some Middle American city out there has a better clubbing "scene."

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Can someone name a US city whose clubbing scene is not overrated, expensive, and full of "poseurs?" I ask this because I believe this is the essence OF clubbing. That's what poseurs do, is go clubbing. If anything, the poseurs in New York are at least REAL poseurs. In some of these other cities, you have poseurs of poseurs doing the clubbing. Now how great a clubbing scene is that?

I think my head just exploded... Poseurs of poseurs? If you have to poseur to pass as a poseur, are you then "real"?😕

I have seen this with my own two eyes so I cannot be convinced that some Middle American city out there has a better clubbing "scene."

How 'bout a place where you can lift a couple of cold ones while you swap stories about clubbing the eelpout you just pulled out of a hole in the ice, eh?

 

[whopper]

If anything, the poseurs in New York are at least REAL poseurs.

I'm not sure what a "real poseur" is.

But NYC does have a more "happening" club scene than most cities. Go to a lot of other cities & you won't see as much of a club scene. That's not meant as a compliment or a bash-it all depends on if you like the scene or not. I can't think of many cities with as much of a scene as NYC, though few come to mind such as Vegas. Haven't been to any London clubs, but I hear they have a good club scene.

Despite what I mentioned in the last post, there is a lot of fun to be in clubs. However there is also a lot of that poseur element: people judging others based on superficial reproductive aspects akin to high school popularity(looks, status, money, dress, being in the "in crowd").

Anyways, there are benefits to being in NYC. It is a psychiatric mecca, and there's a lot of things to be had there that can't be found elsewhere. However for me, I'd be more inclined to agree with Anasazi. Going into a grocery store, paying about 50% more, having higher property taxes, living in something 1/4 the size of what I could've been living in elsewhere, and having to be in a subway, spending 40 minutes on a trip that otherwise would've been 10 minutes elsewhere--those wear on me. The psychiatry pay there is not as much, costs of living are higher.

I would choose to live there if I was making a heck of a lot of money, and the job was somehow tied to the location. Otherwise I'd choose to live elsewhere.

Everyone should live in/near Manhattan at least once. There's nowhere quite like it.

I agree. Living there is an experience that someone ough to try. Some people will love it. For me, its a place to visit, not live.

 

[nancysinatra]

How 'bout a place where you can lift a couple of cold ones while you swap stories about clubbing the eelpout you just pulled out of a hole in the ice, eh?

No. Already you are introducing flannel into the millieu so right there it's not "clubbing." Other disqualifying features would be the obvious need for a 4 wheel drive, and traversing ice to get to the place. None of that is clubbing.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

No. Already you are introducing flannel into the millieu so right there it's not "clubbing." Other disqualifying features would be the obvious need for a 4 wheel drive, and traversing ice to get to the place. None of that is clubbing.

Pffft. Flannel is SO 2008. It's Polarfleece or nothing, baby.

 

[marshmallows]

I agree with much of whats been said. But there are things that need to be added to the pros of living in NY. Travel! Regionally it is closer to London(europe), and has so many airports that if one travels often including within the states, the deals are unparalleled.
For the people who have lived in other regions of the US, midwest, southeast, (i have), for a while, it can get very boring and your choices of arts, shopping, festivals, museums, nightlife, foreign neighborhoods/restaurants; can't come close to NY. But that is all ones preference. I have done the suburban big house thing and was bored out of my mind. I would rather be in a smaller apartment in NY, (bigger places are overrated to me, more to clean, more junk to put in, that I will never look at or use), but I might be in the minority. But it really does depend mainly on the individual and what they are used to, and what they want post residency.😕

 

[Anasazi23]

No. Already you are introducing flannel into the millieu so right there it's not "clubbing." Other disqualifying features would be the obvious need for a 4 wheel drive, and traversing ice to get to the place. None of that is clubbing.

What about the frozen dog urine you have to traverse to get anywhere in NYC in the winter (which is 6 months long) on the sidewalk. Is that considered ice?

 

[HCE]

What about the frozen dog urine you have to traverse to get anywhere in NYC in the winter (which is 6 months long) on the sidewalk. Is that considered ice?

I'm not a scientist, but I think its still urine.

 

[nancysinatra]

What about the frozen dog urine you have to traverse to get anywhere in NYC in the winter (which is 6 months long) on the sidewalk. Is that considered ice?

I wouldn't be so sure it's all from dogs.

 

[whopper]

OT but I remember doing the NYC Times Square-New Year's Ball Drop thing.

You got to get there about 7pm if you want to get in. The police erected barracades, and by about 7pm it gets so dense that they'll only let people in if people leave.

So if you want to see the ball drop, you got to sit there for 5 hrs in freezing cold weather. Everyone around you is drinking silly but there is no where to go to the bathroom, so people will have their friends surround them & pee in the street. By about 10pm there is so much pee shooting out that rivers of urine are now flowing on the streets and people's pants from the knee down are splattered in other people's urine.

Its usually freezing--often times below 10F, and people are all around, drunk and rivers of pee flowing, and they love it, after all its NYC.

Well hey, its just another thing about NYC I just don't get. I've been there, done it, and don't get it. I guess this reminded me of the club thing because that's another thing I just don't get even though I've been there & done that too, and will have several people say to me "what's up with you? How can you not like that?"

The one highlight of the evening when I went to go see the balldrop was after it was all over & the crowds were dissipating, I saw a white guy call someone of color a Nigge_. Then within 30 seconds about 50 men of color turned their heads at the white guy, and he immediately dashed down the street as if his life was in danger (which it probably was). He then very stupidly ran into an alleyway that had no exit, and very poor lighting, having at least 50 men chase after him.

Let's just say out of self preservation, I didn't go into the alleyway to see what happened to him, and I didn't see him get out either. First cop I saw, told him what happened, and he just blew me off.

 

[nancysinatra]

OT but I remember doing the NYC Times Square-New Year's Ball Drop thing.

You got to get there about 7pm if you want to get in. The police erected barracades, and by about 7pm it gets so dense that they'll only let people in if people leave.

So if you want to see the ball drop, you got to sit there for 5 hrs in freezing cold weather. Everyone around you is drinking silly but there is no where to go to the bathroom, so people will have their friends surround them & pee in the street. By about 10pm there is so much pee shooting out that rivers of urine are now flowing on the streets and people's pants from the knee down are splattered in other people's urine.

Its usually freezing--often times below 10F, and people are all around, drunk and rivers of pee flowing, and they love it, after all its NYC.

Well hey, its just another thing about NYC I just don't get. I've been there, done it, and don't get it. I guess this reminded me of the club thing because that's another thing I just don't get even though I've been there & done that too, and will have several people say to me "what's up with you? How can you not like that?"

The one highlight of the evening when I went to go see the balldrop was after it was all over & the crowds were dissipating, I saw a white guy call someone of color a Nigge_. Then within 30 seconds about 50 men of color turned their heads at the white guy, and he immediately dashed down the street as if his life was in danger (which it probably was). He then very stupidly ran into an alleyway that had no exit, and very poor lighting, having at least 50 men chase after him.

Let's just say out of self preservation, I didn't go into the alleyway to see what happened to him, and I didn't see him get out either. First cop I saw, told him what happened, and he just blew me off.

You know how in Rome, it's only old ladies and tourists who go to the Catholic Church services? Well it's similar with Times Square. That's not what most New Yorkers do. I think they should carve Times Square out as its own country just like Vatican City with the ailing Dick Clark as its Pope/President. Then these complaints people make about "New York" can be put in their proper context.

 

[Anasazi23]

You know how in Rome, it's only old ladies and tourists who go to the Catholic Church services? Well it's similar with Times Square. That's not what most New Yorkers do. I think they should carve Times Square out as its own country just like Vatican City with the ailing Dick Clark as its Pope/President. Then these complaints people make about "New York" can be put in their proper context.

So I just got back from Florida for a job interview, and have to say, I'm pissed to have returned. This morning on the way to work, my forehead froze from the 20mph freezing wind blasting it, while my hair became encrusted with the driving "wintry mix" which melted in the subway, which is nearly a half-mile away from York Avenue. Not to worry though, the "2nd Avenue Subway" should be completed (according to the signs on the train) in 2014. I waited for 5 trains to get one with any room in it to head downtown, and was pressed up against a homeless(?) man for the ride. Or, at least he smelled homeless. I'm now sitting in the hospital office, which is about 60 degrees since the building is ancient and the heating sucks and am gearing up to start the trip home again, where I'll likely again see people falling in the urine and hepatitis-soaked slush.

Just a few more months of winter...

 

[whopper]

Let me know what the job prospects are like in Florida.

The place I'm at, it really isn't a bad place. Its actually quite good, just that I'm getting burned out being on the toughest unit in the place. If I stay at this place, I'm definitely moving to another unit or not staying. I was thinking though that since I'm not even from the area, why not consider another geographic place entirely.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

..

Just a few more months of winter...

How long until rotting garbage season?

 

[nancysinatra]

Not to worry though, the "2nd Avenue Subway" should be completed (according to the signs on the train) in 2014.

They have signs in English on the trains now? Wow. That is progress. Last I read a subway sign, I noticed how FIRST it was written in Chinese, and then translated, sort of, into English. That was 2 years ago. Anyway those signs--any rogue hack with an ink jet printer and some Scotch tape could post them since the MTA has yet to discover the wonders of lamination or professional printing. Actually that might be a nice way to divert some rush hour traffic--just put up my own signs saying the subway's down.

2014 is pretty optimistic. The 2nd Ave line got started in what, 1972?

But I'm telling you I would rather be here than in some Disneyland style shuffleboard capital where I have to drive past office parks every day and wear my 29 pieces of flair.